posted on November 13, 2000 07:00:40 AM
Last night I sold a little 1940's thingy on eBay. It's not all that rare, and it normally sells for about $20.
I had two bidders in the auction. Here's my question: I have another of this item in a different color. Would it be SPAM to contact the second bidder and ask if they'd like to purchase it from me?
Is it punishable by eBay?
Would you mind if someone did it to you?
Ok, that was more than one question, but thanks in advance for any input/advice, etc.
posted on November 13, 2000 07:33:42 AM
Yes, it's considered fee avoidance by eBay. I don't give a rat's patoot about eBay's rules, but a suspension would cut into my Christmas money, so I'd advise against it.
I would not mind if someone emailed me with such an offer, but some folks get wild if there's any non-authorized, non-permission-granted email in their mailbox, so if your bidder turns out to be one of those he/she might turn you in.
It's a crapshoot. Depends on how bad you want to sell it.
Personally I wouldn't. Too many anal folks out there.
posted on November 13, 2000 07:36:44 AM
The worst that ever happened was someone emailed back to say they would never make a purchase if they didnt win the auction. More than 50% of the time, the buyer took me up on it.
By the way, you should only do this to bidders on YOUR auctions.
posted on November 13, 2000 07:50:36 AM
Legally speaking - SPAM is unsolicited mail to someone you haven't had contact with or done business with at any time - in fine terms this person (your bidder) has opened business negations with you by bidding in your auction, therefore the word SPAM, legally wouldn't apply.
Regarding getting in trouble with eBay - I doubt it - I often do this if there is another close bid and I have more than one of the item.
posted on November 13, 2000 08:50:06 AM
sadi999 wrote:
"I had two bidders in the auction. Here's my question: I have another of this item in a different color. Would it be SPAM to contact the second bidder and ask if they'd like to purchase it from me?
Is it punishable by eBay?
Would you mind if someone did it to you?"
-------------------------------------------
eBay considers any attempt to conduct a transaction outside the auction process as an
attempted fee avoidance. They loosely apply the term "spam" to the type of offer you mention. Don't be surprised to see eBay attempt to crack down on these outside the auction sales.
Yes, it is punsihable by eBay.
To me, it isn't spam if I don't mind getting it and I wouldn't turn someone in for making an offer like the one you describe. However. some people could object to the offer and could turn you in for making it.
I suspect, instead of devoting some resourses toward making it easy to report these sales to eBay so people could quickly and simply pay eBay the FVF, eBay will instead devote resourses toward treating these transactions as rule and/or policy violations.
I guess eBay thinks it's more cost effective to police and punish this activity rather than figuring out how to collect their cut.
posted on November 13, 2000 01:27:02 PM Legally speaking - SPAM is unsolicited mail to someone you haven't had contact with or done business with at any time - in fine terms this person (your bidder) has opened business negations with you by bidding in your auction, therefore the word SPAM, legally wouldn't apply.
Based on what law or what interpretation or what who said when???
I'm not asking for a formal citation, but this claim is so counter-intutitive that it requires at least some supporting evidence.
In particular, developing an email advertising list of your previous customers, without them asking for it, is the worst kind of spam imagineable, it's a violation of trust.
All that said, I don't believe that offering your 2nd place bidder "another one" at 2nd place bidder's bid is spam, any more than offering "the same one" when 1st place bidder backs out. If you do it from some email address other than your eBay seller's email, there is no way eBay can punish you.
What you cannot do at any time is send an advertisement for some other auction. That is quickly punished by eBay.
posted on November 13, 2000 02:19:48 PMLegally speaking - SPAM is unsolicited mail to someone .....
There is NO legal definition of Spam.
Several states (19 to date - [url] http://www.suespammers.org [url] ) have attempted to define it. A couple times the Feds have as well, but it has never gotten out of both houses and to a vote, and if a state did, it has often been overturned.
All we have to work with is the generally accepted definition I quoted above ... UCE /UBE
As close to "legally" as we have is the TOS/ToU/AUP of ISPs and abuse desks. Generally *all* ISP have rules that prohibit Spam (except for a few blackhat spamhausen, that don't last long, thanks to RSS/DUL/RBL processes of MAPS).
Ken
who edited to try to fix ^$#%@ ubb
[ edited by Pantheus on Nov 13, 2000 02:22 PM ]
posted on November 13, 2000 03:47:39 PMjwpc: The most common definition of spam is also its formal name: Unsolicited Commercial Email.
Unsolicited: The recipient did not specifically ask for it.
Commercial: Trying to sell something.
Email: The mode of solicitation.
Even the "fine line" splitting of hairs about someone entering a business transaction does not fly with me and lots of other people either, because again, I (we) did not specifically ask for or confirm approval to receive the extra UCE.
Legal definitions, at a federal level, are stalled somewhere in Congress, in the form of three separate bills, two of which are pathetic opt-out based systems (you'd have to opt out with hundreds or thousands of companies before the potential spam stream slowed; it would never stop, because there would always be new companies forming). Even if one of the two weaker bills (the third is stronger) passed, however, the spam war would probably never cease, because opt out is so pathetic, and also because once "legitimized," bulk emailings would likely become more common. Fun, eh?
To be fair, the subject situation is perhaps the "most benign" kind of spam I've seen discussed, but it still fits, at least in my mind, the meaning of UCE.
Offline, the "prior business relationship" angle is the "source" of perhaps half the junk mail people get and (mostly) discard (most of the rest being from when a company you did business with sells your information to other companies, behind your back). It is probably similar for telemarketing.
So, I've seen, relatively speaking, worse forms of spam, but it still fits the most common definition and perception.
And yes, there is also the potential fee avoidance issue with eBay.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ edited by dc9a320 on Nov 14, 2000 08:22 AM ]
posted on November 14, 2000 05:45:58 AM
Thank you all for your answers. I don't usually have this problem because I don't usually have more than one of an item.
RM - I agree with you; I'd pay eBay their fee gladly if they had a way to do it rather than take a shot with their cust svc folks. I've had a couple of occasions where someone paid me after I filed for FVF credit, and I always report back to eBay that they've paid.
After reading all the answers, I'll just list the other one rather than hassle with eBay in any way.
