posted on November 15, 2000 03:54:59 PM
Well, it had to happen.
The geniuses in the city council of the next town to us are considering a city ordinance that would basically make 99% of garage saleing illegal.
There have been (apparently - they won't verify) too many incidents of antique and collectible hounds ( and who isn't?) going in and buying "treasured items" and "family heirlooms" for prices that are making the relatives gag when they see the same items for sale on the internet or in shows.
It looks like some of the brick and mortar dealers are fueling the fire. They have told the politicians that honest and reputable dealers do not knowingly offer less than 25 - 35% of an items actual market value, because they have a reputation to uphold in the community.
It sounds like the incidents that set this off involved the estate of a man who passed away, and another involving someone buying a valuable collection of sports cards for $10.
Now they are talking about either licensing anyone who wants to purchase items second hand in their town - so a record is available to track down the buyer, or creating an ordinance that would prohibit buyers from offering less than 30% of fair market value for an item worth over X dollars unless a waiver is signed by the selling party.
We don't see how either one could be made to work, or if it would be considered legal, but it's scary to see how people think about these things.
posted on November 15, 2000 04:31:26 PM
How is everyone supposed to know the "fair market value" of all their stuff? Especially if you are having a garage sale to clean out the home of a deceased relative. There's no way to know that!
One of the best things about garage saling is finding that valuable item for a couple of bucks. Maybe the antique dealers are tired of the eBay competition.
*******************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
posted on November 15, 2000 04:39:41 PM
I am an antique dealer and I have NEVER been able to buy as you described. I always get to the garage sales too late, I guess.
That would be a terrible law to pass and I am not so sure it would be easy to pass, considering there are far too many people who hold garage sales, quasi-estate sales and I think their vote would be larger than a handful of so-called reputable dealers.
By the way, I know of several antique dealers who could care less about what people will think when they make offers. They just want to get it at the best price, just like everyone else.
posted on November 15, 2000 04:47:53 PM
I agree. I've never found any of these "super deals" that people are complaining about. It also seems like fair market value is a pretty subjective evaluation - I mean, who decides what's "fair" ?
It seems like these people are just overreacting to me. But I was pretty surprised to hear it. Don't they ever go shopping for a good deal?
posted on November 15, 2000 05:23:09 PMIt looks like some of the brick and mortar dealers are fueling the fire. They have told the politicians that honest and reputable dealers do not knowingly offer less than 25 - 35% of an items actual market value, because they have a reputation to uphold in the community.
The dealers are full of hot air, (I am trying to be nice).
I had a yard sale when I sold my house and found 2 of these "honest reputable dealers" in my dining room with my Great Granmother's silver on the table, (that was in a drawer in the china closet), telling me that they would give me $10.00 to take this "junk" off of my hands.
I had a fit an ordered them out of my house. I practically had to call the Police to get rid of them.
Sounds to me that they want to be the only game in town so they can worm their way into people's houses and get first crack at what is there without the competition.
posted on November 15, 2000 05:30:09 PM
How about telling us what city and state this is in. It's amazing how many towns have their pending legislation, and their local newspapers, available online.
posted on November 15, 2000 06:35:08 PM
Yeah really, please tell what City this is.
After all, it is a public decision, nothing private here, so if this is indeed a "real" story, then why not name the place so others can indeed verify your statements.
posted on November 15, 2000 07:01:18 PM
How interesing..though wrong message sent here...in our area, you can have 2 garage sales per year, Period, SUPPOSEDLY. Get that as the patrollers are closed on weekends, so they do not know-that is another story, though. A permit does cost, anyone supposedly who does not get a permit, will be fined.<P>IRRELEVANT Topic of all dealers are crooks, is not so; when having a sale, the owner of items prices their items, themselves-I,myself pay what people have on their items, although the silver incident, you should have done some homework, even if just on ebay, found similar and set your price and not let them insult you. Usually, a garage or estate sale is for x amount of days-an estate sale, is a sale where you want to part out with all your stuff-whether or not you, youself do your own homework, is really your own fault, best thing to do in estates, is find reputable LICENSED estate appraiser or someone who does sales legally or consign it to reputable auction house-yes, there are honest people out there, you do need to check around but in estate circumstances-I live in FL, many relatives of dceased have limited time, sometimes just have sales themseleves, later to be disappointed-is worth an honest appraiser comes in BEFORE you have your sale.<p>My 2¢ worth-you cannot judge all dealers the same-I, myself have given people fair offers-even paid more than they wanted as I have a conscience,I may made less profit that others, but I can live with my honest self.If you set the price, without doing homework, you are liable to get ripped off, as no one can know everything-then again, we dealers also do not have instant turnaround-I have been in this business for almost 30 years-sure, there are crtooks out there, but if you research your item, items or do not have the time before you sell, you are possibly gona get ripped, so to say.
posted on November 15, 2000 07:34:18 PM
Swfllady - Maybe I read SMW's post incorrectly or misunderstood, but I believe she had a "yard" sale. That would not indicate to me, that these dealers were welcomed by SMW into her dining room to "search" for silver in a drawer.
She never even said she was selling the silver, so it seems as if these particular dealers were scavening.
posted on November 15, 2000 07:36:36 PM
hmmm... Well if you take "actual market value" for collectibles as being defined by the published fair market price lists then a large portion of ebay sales become illegal.
And then a buyer's license requirement? So the professional buyers have no competition, and stuff too junky for them becomes totally unsaleable...
posted on November 15, 2000 08:47:31 PM
macandjan-
Actually, this is in the Peoples Republic of Arizona. Although we've just imported 100%
English language immersion from Kalifornia in spite of all the talk about parents rights.
A friend of ours has speculated that this is because there are so many seniors in the area, but in fairness there are alot of young families too.
the "big secret" is that we have to live and work in the area for at least another year. If you've ever lived in these small towns, you know what I mean!
posted on November 16, 2000 02:29:29 PMstarlight747: Yikes, yikes, holy yikes! What's with up with that? If I'm understanding this correctly, they're implying that reselling legitimately-bought items for a profit is wrong, then turning around and punishing the other party, namely the yard seller -- not to mention other buyers by forcing them to be trackable for what most everyone else would be considered legal? Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but that's what it seems like from the what was described here.
What's a yard seller supposed to do, spend days or weeks researching "fair market value" for every single thing they are intending to sell, when most of isn't going to be of much value? Even then, the items, given the limited sales "area," are rarely going to go at "fair market value." In such a situation, it would be even more convenient just to toss things.
Plus, in the case of estate items, if the relatives do "gag" at some of the prices they later see on the Internet, then maybe they should have looked up "fair market value" for certain pieces, to be perfectly blunt.
It's a decision that makes more sense to leave in the seller's hands. If they think there is a chance certain items may be of some greater value, and want to spend the time (and perhaps money) checking, they can do so. If they don't have the time or interest in doing so, that's their choice. In "protecting" those that don't try finding out fair market value and then complain when they are surprised that an item does have some greater value, they are punishing the larger majority who know the risks well enough and either live with them or do the upfront research first.
Besides, that brings up the question of who sets "fair market value." As has been mentioned countless times, eBay sort of redefines the concept, or at least puts the values in play by creating a much larger and more immediate marketplace, namely the X-million eBay users with Search capacities at their fingertips.
Or are the proposed-to-be-made-former yard sellers supposed to haul everything off to the "brick and mortars," who will likely try to undercut just as much so they can have their chance at profit? The B&Ms would have less competition, that's for sure.
In the normal way of things, some sellers may not realize they are underselling something they didn't realize is valuable, but at least they're able to sell their stuff pretty much when and how they want.
What is with some companies and now townships trying to interfere with the legitimate reselling of legitimate products?
If the particular city council doesn't have some members or public response that makes them realize the "cure" is worse than the "disease," they'd probably (hopefully) end up with it struck down as illegal by a court, the first time the law (if enacted) gets challenged.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on November 16, 2000 02:36:46 PM
I have had the high bid on the exact same item 3 times in the last two months ($112, $206 and $237), but none of my bids ($257 each time) have reached the reserve.
posted on November 16, 2000 02:42:59 PM
Oh give me a break. Who is going to enforce such a law ? The Yard Sale Police ??? I wouldn't worry about any ridiculous laws like that. Even if by some 1 in a million shot they pass it. Who is going to comply ?? Who is going to Supervise yard sales ?? I mean come on, give me a break.
posted on November 16, 2000 09:36:17 PM
Ya know, when a city passes an ordinance controlling garage/yard sales, I have a lot more trouble believing that they're doing so to protect the interests of the poorly-educated sellers than to crack down on a number of sales venues in which no permit fees are paid to the city, and no tax revenues can be collected.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but 99% of civic ordinances passed regarding the exchanges of goods and services are NOT for the protection of the buyer, but to feed the municipality's coffers.
posted on November 17, 2000 08:17:01 AM
Something is only worth what someone else will pay for it - and that's it. I have garage sales and sell things that I paid ten times what is on the tag. Does that mean that someone is getting something over on me when they spot a deal? Heck no. I just want to move the stuff. I don't need it and it is my problem that I paid XX number of dollars for it. It sounds like a 'little' of the greed monster is coming out on some of the perspective inheritors. ummmm. give me a brreeeak.
posted on November 17, 2000 11:50:51 AM
Well, macandjan (either or both), licensing is a means of defining competence in a particular field, or meeting common-sense standards to protect public safety. Whereas, my concerns about permits and limitations on these sales venues (for instance, here in Sacramento, CA you can only have 6 garage/yard sales a year without applying for a business permit) is because they are based upon the greed of the public entity, and not for public safety nor career-path competency.
Other than that, I fully agree about the speed limits. Damned inconsiderate of the powers that be. "Racing" isn't part of my name for nothing, ya know!
[ edited by racingcowboy on Nov 17, 2000 11:53 AM ]
posted on November 17, 2000 12:26:11 PM
In our area, I think we can have only four garage sales a year without a business permit. And this law was only enacted after lots of citizens complained to the city council about the noise, traffic, and other problems generated by people who had sales nearly every weekend. Of course, a business license here costs $25 a year...hardly a burden!
I love garage sales, but I would NOT love having an enterprising family living next door to me who had them all the time. We have limited street parking, this is a quiet neighborhood, I don't want people ringing MY doorbell by mistake at six in the morning, etc.
As I understand it, the original purpose of such sales was to get rid of the junk out of your garage or home, not to be an ongoing business. How many households really NEED to have a sale more than four (or six) times a year? If they do, they're almost certainly in business and should have to obey the same laws that I have to obey. And yes, I do have a business permit and a home business occupancy permit as well.
