posted on November 25, 2000 09:26:29 AM new
not to mention my money! Anyway, if there are any Black Memorabilia collectors, I'd appreciate your input, good or bad.
We have an item (link to photo will be below) that we believe is 1880's vintage of an automaton that is in a picture frame of a black man. We haven't found out exactly what it is, but Sotheby's in London sold two in the mid 90's that sound just like ours, but we can't find any catalogs to see a picture of them. It's quite large at 16" x 21" (framed size)
Anyway, they were in the thousands of dollars and was wondering if there was a good market on eBay to sell this, or should we just send it off to a bigger auction house. Any help would be appreciated.
Front
http://yoursandmineantiques.com/ebay/hoyt1.jpg
Mechanism that makes it work (clockwork):
http://yoursandmineantiques.com/ebay/hoyt3.jpg
What does he do? It looks like his mouth might move up and down?
I've not seen this particular example before, but my advice would be to do a completed search on the word "automaton." It's not uncommon to see listings of higher-end pieces that didn't meet reserve.
Were it me, I'd probably give it a go, making sure to use a reserve. But that's because contacting one of the high-end auction houses and getting the thing to them would be a PITA. Definitely an option, but not a first option for me.
[ edited by fountainhouse on Nov 25, 2000 09:54 AM ]
posted on November 25, 2000 09:57:33 AM new
Hello flynn You do have a fabulous and valuable piece of Black Memorabilia and I would strongly suggest the use of a reserve if you decide to put it on eBay.
I don't know how it will do there but your only loss if it doesn't sell will be your time and listing fees.
posted on November 25, 2000 10:00:06 AM new
His head rolls from side to side and his mouth opens and closes, going from a smile to a frown. It's really phenomenal in that it doesn't make any sounds, runs smooth as butter.
Obviously I'd like to make as much as I can on it so I was hoping to also gather some info as to who made it and the exact vintage.
We think it is a Hoyt Life Picture, but nothing comes up on the net except those two auctions from the mid 90's at Sotheby.
All the automatons listed at eBay are three dimensional, nothing in a picture frame, so I'm wondering if it's not as desirable, or but because there aren't any listed that it might be really rare?
posted on November 25, 2000 10:32:14 AM new
Hi Angela. Let me do some research and I'll see what I can find out. It will take a bit of time but I'll post any info here that I find later today. I do think this item is rare and highly desirable and you should not be in a rush to list it until you get a better idea of it's value.
posted on November 25, 2000 10:35:58 AM new
Blanche:
I would be eternally grateful! We've had it a while, so I'm in no hurry to list it at all. If you'd like you can just email the info directly or post it here is fine too!
posted on November 25, 2000 03:36:31 PM new
Angela -
http://mmd.foxtail.com/ might be able to help you. He would perhaps be singing to a record?
To date it (or to get the earliest possible date) check out the clothing in photographs of various eras and try to pin down the first appearance of the cloth cap and maybe the shirt collar and button style.
You might also check photos of early black entertainers - this could be a ripoff of a popular one.
Being flat, this could be set up in much smaller area than the 3-D ones, or used on the sides of a larger exhibit.
posted on November 25, 2000 03:51:16 PM new
It might be worth it to have this professionally appraised or even using one of the online appraisal services. I know AW used to have one and it may still have one.
Please be aware that there have been a lot of fakes in this area of collecting so that you do not misrepresent it when selling it.
The fakes can be detected if you know what to look for even if they used old wood and materials.
If this is a vintage piece, the market is excellent for this material.
If you know for sure that it is an original automaton and has not been faked in any way, then I would go for an appraisal on it before selling it.
Good luck!
posted on November 25, 2000 04:25:31 PM new
Before you go rushing to spend $20 on an AW "appraisal", I think you need to consider these TOS of the AW "appraisal" service:
Our AuctionWatch Appraisals are based on the images and other information that you send us online through the Web without the opportunity to inspect the actual item and, therefore, can only be hypothetical in nature. An AuctionWatch Appraisal is provided solely for educational purposes and may not be used for insurance, gift tax, estate tax, other tax or any other valuation purposes.
The TOS go on to say that
AN AUCTIONWATCH APPRAISAL IS NOT A REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY AS TO VALUATION. AN APPRAISAL IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY OF ANY TYPE WHATSOEVER. Neither AuctionWatch.com nor any of its agents, contractors or employees is authorized to make any representation or warranty, oral or written, with respect to any item submitted for an Appraisal.
Since this "appraisal" is for "educational" purposes only, can't be used for any other purpose, and no warranty whatsoever is given as to valuation - what's the point?
posted on November 25, 2000 06:12:59 PM newHCQ
I did not know this about AWs service, thank you for the info.
Actually, nothing beats a hands on appraisal but there are many fine and reputable appraisers out there that can help.
I know that you can correspond with both Christies and Sothebys (in NYC) and they can offer help in either appraising or recommending someone reputable to appraise.
If I could examine the piece I could help with verifying it's authenticity but since I can't, it is a guessing game at best for me.
