posted on November 26, 2000 01:35:51 PM
I need an outside perspective here.
We have had one package out of over 1500 shipped go missing. The box contained 4 small dolls won in 4 auctions. The buyer requested that they be packed separately and each insured for $50. She bought the 4 dolls for less than $25 total.
We refused, shipped the dolls together, and bought insurance for the total she paid and sure enough the package did not arrive. She mailed me on day 30 exactly to claim no reciept - the same day I could file claim. I had the distinct immpression that she bought on ebay all day and had a calender going when to mail the sellers.
Anyway, this deal made me a bit jaded on this topic. Fast forward 3 years to today and I need advice.
I sold a piece of pottery for $26.00. To be very candid I do not know the *value* of the thing. I did ask on a "this specific kind of pottery* website and was told that it this piece was not the especially desirable pattern, but no value given. The expert on site said that the piece did not belong to any specific dinnerware pattern and went on to say that he had a "few of these lying around in various colors". The same piece, desirable pattern sold last week for $68. I thought the price I got was probably about right, maybe on the high side.
Buyer mails me today and wants me to insure for $100.
So...
I am comptemplating telling her that I will be happy to purchase the insurance on her behalf but I would not be able to provide her any documentation of the inflated value in the event of a claim. Also, that she would be responsible to file it. I don't want to be a jerk. Is this being a jerk?
posted on November 26, 2000 01:44:02 PM
I Think if they bought this for $26 from you this is what the insurance claim should be for if this claim some how came back to you can you show proof you were Paid $100 for it.
Keep in mind postal insurance is to protect your investment not actual value. if the buyer wants this item insured for more then they paid they can call a insurance company and have it insured the right way not in a manner that could be concidered fraud. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on November 26, 2000 01:46:30 PMVM..you are not being foolish
But the price you get for something and the VALUE of that something are two different things, as you well know. You find a 100.00 piece at a yard sale for 1.00. Do you SELL it for 1.00? NO! And if you kept it and wanted to Insure it under your Home Policy, you would NOT insure it for 1.00...Same thing here.
Buyer knows the value..It is her/his call on how much Insurance they want. But they better be ready to show proof of value if the time shoud come...
I once found a set of XXXX for 65.00 in a Mall. Had sold a similar set during prior year for $650.00. Had my purchase shipped (I was visiting Texas, and set was too large to carry on plane). Got broken by UPS...with big HOLE on corner of box....lost most of the set...UPS PAID my Insured Value of 650.00 after I provided: 1)a copy of the Mark on the Maker, and 2) a copy of the Invoice showing how much similar set sold for.
Edited, cuz I forgot about one thing I had to provide: a photocopy of a page from my Antique Pottery book, showing the value of various similar sets, with photos of the items.
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Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 26, 2000 01:52:41 PMI am comptemplating telling her that I will be happy to purchase the insurance on her behalf but I would not be able to provide her any documentation of the inflated value in the event of a claim.
That sounds fair to me- you might also want to provide a link to the USPS webpage which describes insurance rates and discusses over-insuring:
posted on November 26, 2000 01:57:26 PM
Thanks for the link, mrpatatohead...That is correct:
Do not insure your packages for more than their value. The amount of insurance coverage for loss will be the actual value, less depreciation. No claim payments are made for sentimental losses or for any expenses incurred as a result of the loss.
Value, not price paid...
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 26, 2000 02:05:41 PM
Thanks guys and gals - how does this sound?
>>Thanks XXXXX, I would be happy to purchase $100 worth of insurance on the XXXXXX on your behalf. The extra cost is $1.80. Please be advised that in the event of a claim, I will only be able to provide you with proof of value amounting to what you paid at auction.>>>>>
posted on November 26, 2000 02:09:51 PMVM...What you have to offer is a proof of purchase price...not a proof of value...The burden of proof of Value rests on buyer.
posted on November 26, 2000 02:11:49 PM
I asked at my local P.O. in CA what is considered a receipt for insurance purposes for an item purchased on ebay. The answer was that they will not accept the auction page; documentation from a store that sells the item stating what the item is selling for in their store would suffice, or, in the case of an antique, something from an antique dealer or auction house on their stationery stating the value would be accepted.
I had bid on a sealed copy of a book on tape that is selling for $39.95 at Waldenbooks and I paid $10.00 on ebay. I asked and the seller stated on the insurance form that the value is $39.95.
The value is not what it sold for; the value is what it can be proved that it will cost to replace.
posted on November 26, 2000 02:18:40 PM
Thanks Shosh, critical detail there, I will fix.
london - I get it. I just did not want to be spending my time justifying a claim for someone who opened up a piece of pottery I shipped them and busted it to clear $70. As long as she proves value, it suits me fine.
Now I know the usps clerks are not consistent, but I have been told differently. The eBay aucton site is proof. I provide reciepts and many of my customers send printed out emails with their payments which are proofs of "value."
It is my opinion and my opinion only....that if a person would buy an item on eBay for $10 but the item was really worth $100 they would have to prove it in order to get reimbursed.
The idea to acquire insurance other than usps sounds good to me!
Of course, the seller would have to develop the proof of the value, I think. Take pictures document any markings etc.
posted on November 26, 2000 02:34:52 PMVM...YOU do NOT have to prove ANYTHING to ANYONE. The BUYER does. They have the package...They have the PACKAGING, which they would have to surrender with the claim, should it come to that., THEY buy Insurance, THEY file a claim. All you would have to do is make a copy of the INSURANCE SLIP, then MAIL them the original.
Your buyer has to have a very convincing proof of value before attempting to pull a fast one on the P.O. or UPS, whatever the case may be.
Their copy of how much they paid means absolutely NOTHING to P.O...the reason is, an invoice can be falsified, showing a much higher Price Sold than in actuality. That is why Insurance is based on REPLACEMENT COST, and NOT on PURCHASE PRICE.
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Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 26, 2000 02:37:47 PM
verymodern
It is $1.80 I finally found it on their website.
I wouldn't worry about it. Let the buyer insure it through their homeowners insurance or whatever insurance they may have. I would just insure it at the value of what I was paid.
Just to discuss if I may: Any lawyers in the house? The website states "value" so what is the determining factor on what consitutes the "value?" The eBay purchase or the market value?
posted on November 26, 2000 02:50:32 PM
I agree with Shoshanah. Let the buyer decide what it's worth to them. They have to prove value to the post office; all you do is provide them with the amount of insurance for what they think it's worth.
If I pay $700.00 for a playstation on ebay, the P.O. will not reimburse me for a dime more than it will cost to buy the playstation at the local mall. It doesn't matter that there are none available, what matters is what the selling price would be if the local mall was selling it.
Conversely, if I buy one for $10.00 on ebay, the P.O. will reimburse me the actual cost of $300.00 because this is what I can prove that it is being sold for.
bobbysoxer you are correct, the usps claims clerks vary their answer from office to office and from person to person. I've seen them look at the auction page like it's a cockroach and I've heard others say to bring in the copy of the EOA page or a cc statement to show the cost of the item.
posted on November 26, 2000 02:55:33 PM? The website states "value" so what is the determining factor on what consitutes the "value?" The eBay purchase or the market value?
The value is what they insure.
If something sells, eBay or just at a store, there is a rebuttable presumption that the sales price represented the value at the time of sale.
That is, if you're claiming that the value is other than the sales price, the burden of proof is totally upon you, and the proof had better be good.
eBay sales are evidence of value. What might not be evidence of value is a piece of paper which looks like a closed eBay auction, particularly one from an auction which is not currently available on eBay's site for verification.
Somewhat on the side, the USPS and the other shipping companies are facing a rising count of fraudulent insurance claims involving eBay transactions, and they're looking for ways to fight back.
posted on November 26, 2000 03:33:29 PMsg52eBay sales are evidence of value...
I believe this may be an incorrect statement. Ebay Sales are evidence of what ITEM SOLD FOR, not the VALUE. You may go to various stores and find SAME ITEM, in SAME CONDITION, BRAND NEW ...the Value will be the REPLACEMENT COST...NOT the SALE PRICE on Ebay. If someone bought a 10.00 item on Ebay, which sells in stores for 2.00, the REPLACEMENT COST would still be ONLY 2.00...That is for NEW things.
For Antiques, it is the CURRENT Market Price, based on Prices realized in Shows and Auction Houses, since the criteria differes from that of NEW items.
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 26, 2000 06:09:19 PM
I recently settled a USPS claim (as the buyer) for about $25 for a set of antique crystal goblets. There was absolutely no way of proving any value for them other than my eBay auction page/receipt/note from seller, which I had, along with the insurance receipt and the damaged packaging. The pattern was not one that could be identified in any of my many stemware books, and for that amount of money I wasn't about to take them to an antique store and ask for an appraisal (which would have to be written, and, of course, I would be charged for that service).
This was my first insurance claim, so I'm no expert. But I have always understood that "value" in this context is what you paid for the item, unless you are able to substantiate some higher amount via a pretty airtight (and written) appraisal. The post office accepted my ebay documents with no questions whatsoever as to the authenticity of the price and reimbursed me for the entire amount as I requested, even though only two glasses were broken (they kept the remaining goblets).
This is just another reason I'm happy that I switched to U-PIC. There is no question about the "value"...it's the completed sale price plus shipping. Anything beyond that, the buyer has to be responsible for. That seems easy and reasonable to me.
posted on November 26, 2000 06:39:47 PM
Our Post Office only accepts a receipt from us as to what the customer paid, not what the value might be. Since most of our customers pay via credit card they require a copy of their payment as value.
BUT, I standardly over insure with USP, even pieces which sell for as little as $50, are insured at $1,000, because the insurance is so cheap AND the handling by UPS is totally different when items are insured over $1,000.00.
If such an item is broken, we only claim the actually cost. We have an account with UPS and they are aware that we often over insure because of the different type of handling of high value packages by UPS.
