posted on November 27, 2000 12:01:23 PM new
Last night, I had some free time on my hands so I was browsing ebay for a particular Christmas Ornament. Anyway, there were approximately 10 of these ornaments listed. These are the ones I passed:
*** Money Order Only - Sorry, but I no longer accept checks.
Okay, so what seller is saying is that they dont trust me enough to take my check. Well, I guess I dont trust them enough to send my item.
***High Handling Fee - Shipping & Handling for this ornament will be $5.00.
Yeah sure, that small strip of bubble wrap costs maybe .25 cents....I pass.
***No Paypal - No Billpoint - Sorry, I longer accept.
Well, drat, because there are others who accept it, so off I go
***Due To Increased Fees, I Now Need to Charge A Fee on Billpoint & Paypal.
What? Get real. The day will never come when I pay a seller a fee to purchase an item.
So, which one did I bid on. The one that offers Paypal, Billpoint, and every other means of payment. Her shipping fee was $3.20. The only one I might add with no handling fee. And no crazy terms about payment being there within 5 days...No stern lecture about handing out negs, etc....As a matter of fact, I bid a few dollars higher than I normally would, just because I would rather pay this seller a few bucks more, than have the hassle of dealing with the other sellers who had the same exact item.
So, if some of you are wondering why your sales may be off, it may be due to one of the reasons I listed above. I wont bid on any item with high handling, money order only, or other crazy terms. And I dont think I am the only one who feels that way..
posted on November 27, 2000 12:16:12 PM new
Welcome to my world.
Edited to add....
It's true unless you have that item that I haven't seen elsewhere, and the bidders are knocking each other over to get at it, you have got to be competative.
But there are a lot of superfreaks who think that it's all pretend and so a lot of people have been burned.
[ edited by Capriole on Nov 27, 2000 12:18 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2000 12:18:56 PM newpumpkinhead,
You rock! Thank you for the voice of reason. Many around here won't buy it, and shortly after reading this will start the next "my sales are down..." thread, once again ignoring the "voice of the customer..."
I say, customer service, customer service, CUSTOMER SERVICE, and darn proud of it!!!
[ edited by ksterni on Nov 27, 2000 12:19 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2000 12:29:43 PM new
when you find 10 of an item it is easy to be choosy as to whose auction you bid on. sometimes you find an item you have been seeking for years and you bid even if it is "money orders only"(maybe the seller got burned by numerous bad checks). any seller who wants to cover their costs of packing materials etc. should be smart enough to build the cost into their starting price so they can still show shipping of $3.20 or actual shipping costs. same for paypal-build the new fees into your starting cost. as a buyer i have found paypal tremendously convenient. if you approach internet selling as you would a retail brick and mortar business you should do okay. "click and mortar"?
posted on November 27, 2000 12:32:47 PM new
Adding insurance to your purchase and that ornament now cost you $4.05 to ship. Seems the seller who listed the $5 shipping isn't so far off afterall...95 cents to cover bubblewrap, tape, box (not everything can be sent in the priority box) and time seems pretty reasonable to me.
As for the method of payment..I doubt if it really affects the number of sales one way or another. Plenty of people don't want to use credit cards so whether a seller accepts one of the payment services or not is irrelevant to those people.
I accept checks and note in my ads and EOA that there is no hold for checks but I still get a large number of money orders.
If sales are down it probably has more to do with increased competition...more sellers, more merchanidse. And a lagging influx of new users in relation to the growth of sellers. Plus, the newness has faded.
posted on November 27, 2000 12:40:39 PM newbuild the cost into their starting price
I see people saying this all the time, and I'm curious how this is done in an auction. If you're starting price is set to where you're happy with just one bid, "building costs in" works fine, but that appears to be more of a fixed-price sale than an auction. If you start your item out low, as with $1 open, no reserve type items, how exactly is it that you are able to "build costs in", since the ending price is determined by the bidders?
posted on November 27, 2000 12:49:15 PM new
I'm Back........Yes, I guess I have way too much time on my hands this week.. Hubby is off hunting, kids are out running around, so its just me and my precious computer!
Anyway, I practice what I preach. I never ever charge a handling fee, and I will accept any form of payment. I have had one bad check before, but geez, I am not going to take it out on the whole ebay world! I am not a nag about getting payment to me in such a rush either. I wait a good month, before I file for my fees and give leave a negative. Hell, this is real life, and sometime things happen.
With that said, I can honestly say that the last 3 months for me have been my best. I have been selling on ebay for three years, so I think I finally got it all togehther. My terms are short and sweet, and my adds are simple. I finally hit the "hot" category. 50 bids on a piece of vintage clothing! Also, I had my highest sale ever. Over $300 for a shirt. And I get repeat bidders all the time...So, ebay hasnt been off for me at all. Complete opposite....And its not like I am selling anything spectacular over here, just second had clothing......I really appreciate my customers. After all, they are the ones that keep food on our table.
posted on November 27, 2000 12:55:16 PM new
Hi Amy, the seller with the $5.00 shipping fee. That didnt include insurance or delivery confirmation. That was a required .85 extra. So, the total would have been 5.85 to ship a little resin ornament! Yeah right.....
posted on November 27, 2000 01:09:05 PM new
Thank you, mrpotatohead. I never understood that reasoning either. "Building it in to your starting price" doesn't guarantee a higher ending price -- unless you only expect one bid in the first place.
posted on November 27, 2000 01:36:59 PM new
potato/vargas- obviously if you start an auction at $1.00/no reserve you can't "build in" any costs! i am just suggesting that for those who would state that there are handling fees to realize that this turns off many buyers. an alternative would be to start higher and/or use a reserve. over a period of time, you should cover more of your costs. again, obviously to start at $1.00/no reserve you are going to sell some items for less than you would like and cover no extra costs. it makes more sense for higher priced items. do you guys feel in general that starting with $1.00 or no reserve produces better overall results than higher starting prices and/or reserves? would you say that it depends on the price level?
posted on November 27, 2000 01:38:07 PM new
I agree, pumpkinhead. As a buyer, I HATE when I see something in the same line. Some people have even gone to the extent of saying "I do not accept PayPal. Please DO NOT ask." Then it's time to move to the next seller with better TOS, and most of all, very sensitive to the buyers with shipping costs.
My sales have gone up since I've incoporated even more choices with shipping standard mail rate. It's the buyer's choice.
Now I'm reducing the number of days I'm allowing between auctions. 7 days vs. the dreaded 10 day auctions. Again, as a buyer, I am not thrilled with 10 day auctions. I usually spot it and bit on it on the 9th day (first day) and please someone wake me when it's over! Therefore, yes, making changes always makes for great business practice. Stay on top of the competition. Customers will come to buyers with flexibility . I've even gone to the extent of accepting checks as cash (same day shipping) with great feedbacks.
avmom
[ edited by avmom on Nov 27, 2000 01:57 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2000 01:41:28 PM new
Pumpkinhead...you admitted you paid a "few dollars more" for the ornament you finally bought..so how would it have been any different to pay the $5.85 shipping on the one and paid a few dollars less for the ornament itself? As long as the shipping is stated in the auction, you, the buyer, are in control of the total amount you will pay.
As for bidding being down..maybe (and that is a big maybe as far as I'm concerned) it is but maybe it isn't. If bidding is down I doubt if it has anything to do with "money order only" or "no paypal or billpoint".
You have been around for three years so you know that three years ago VERY FEW people accepted credit cards. There was no paypal or billpoint..if a seller accepted credit cards it was because they had a merchant account. Also, three years ago, those sellers who accepted checks had a holding period on checks. Money order only auctions were the rule not the exception. Three years ago many sellers had a "payment must be recieved in ten days" rule.
IF sales are down, I doubt if those factors have much to do with it. IF sales are down it has more to do with many, many more sellers and oodles more merchandise. Instead of only a couple of an item showing up every month, there now are scads of the same thing. IF sales are down it is because of the old law of supply and demand..the supply has grown tremendously but the demand has not kept pace.
No matter how much we wanted it to, the fast growth and easy money that characterized ebay three years ago, is no more. Most buyers could care less about the shipping costs..most don't even read that part of the auction description. The point when they get upset about the shipping is normally AFTER they have won the bid. Most buyers could care less about the payment terms...again most don't even read that part of the ad. Isn't "Why don't they read the ad?" one of the most frequent questions the sellers post here at AW?
Your points were simplistic. Even if a seller followed your advice they can't be guaranteed their sales will improve...and I'm betting it would do very little good because there is more to selling than having low shipping costs and accepting any form of payment.
do you guys feel in general that starting with $1.00 or no reserve produces better overall results than higher starting prices and/or reserves? would you say that it depends on the price level?
In general, I can't say. Depends on lots of things- time of year, kind of item for sale, general value of item, how many are (or aren't) currently listed, etc. etc. etc.
One of the problems I see here at AW when people give advice is that not everybody is selling the exact same things, yet suggestions are often made as though they are. What works for one may not work for all.
posted on November 27, 2000 01:51:53 PM new
You can say all you want that not accepting credit cards doesn't hurt your sales, and maybe you are right.
But as a buyer, I totally agree with pumpkinhead's thinking. I will gladly pay significantly more for an auction that accepts credit cards in some forms.
And unless it's a completely unique item, I just don't bid if I can't pay online.
It certainly might be true that it's not worth the hassle for some people to accept credit cards, and that's one thing. But if you think this doesn't affect your sales, I think you are probably kidding yourself.
posted on November 27, 2000 01:52:19 PM newdo you guys feel in general that starting with $1.00 or no reserve produces better overall results than higher starting prices and/or reserves? would you say that it depends on the price level?
I don't do $1.00 auctions, so I'm afraid I can't speak to that. I just fail to see how a higher starting price recoups your costs, unless you only expect to get one bid. It's the ENDING price that matters. A higher starting bid is no guarantee that your final price will be higher, unless you're running one-bid auctions.
Most buyers could care less about the payment terms...again most don't even read that part of the ad.
Amen!!!
I often see other sellers in the same category as me sell an identical item for the same (or more!) than I do, and when I check the shipping terms, what do I see? Similar descriptions and photos, but their auction is $3.95 S/H (insurance extra), while mine is $1.25 S/H (insurance included).
I even suggest in my terms that bidders compare shipping charges, but it's obvious that a lot don't.
edited... typo
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Nov 27, 2000 01:55 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2000 02:07:09 PM new
I must be in the minority after reading several of the above posters! I look for great customer service, fair pricing, and most of all fair shipping and flexibility. If the item has enough sellers, I will look for one with the most reasonable terms.
Yes, Ebay has gotten competitive. That's why we need to stay above the competition.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:07:34 PM new
Amy - This is just my opinion, but I think the point that Pumpkinhead is making is not specifically low shipping cost and various forms of payment.
I believe she is saying that she appreciates being treated with courtesy, respect and dignity. I believe she appreciates sellers who don't assume that she is just out to rip them off because others have done so. I believe that she appreciates sellers who treat their customers as decent human beings who make it possible for them to sell on Ebay, no matter whether it's their livlihood or their hobby.
I believe she appreciates sellers who approach their sales with the attitude that most people are basically good. Sellers who know there will be some rotten apples, but who won't let a few bad experiences make them bitter towards all Ebay buyers.
I know I do.
I'm sure there are many, many sellers on Ebay who fit these criteria. Two that come immediately to mind are KRS and Reddeer.
Course, I could be completely wrong about her meaning, after all it's happened before.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:09:14 PM new
The reason WHY some of you are BUYERS and not SELLERS, is that with that kind of thinking, you would be out of business in about, oh...7 minutes?
The buyers on ebay think the world owes them a living, and that everything should be 1 penny with free shipping and that includes insured overnight delivery.
Get real, some of the buyers on ebay, and the ones spewing here have absolutely NO business sense whatsoever.
I don't gouge on shipping, I charge actual costs, rounded up to the next dollar. (ex: $28.45 = $29.00), but with the listing fee, FVF, packing materials, PayPal fee's, not to mention PROFIT, you can't get everything for nuthin'.
The buyers need to realize that THEY do not walk on water.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:16:04 PM new
Amalgamated2000...I have been selling on ebay since March of 98. At first I held for checks (like the majority of sellers did at that time). When I decided it was to much of a hassle to keep track of the checks like that I stopped holding...my sales did not improve.
I looked into the online credit card acceptance companies (pre-paypal) but found most of them to be "Flakey"..except for billpoint. But at that time billpoint was bought by ebay and wasn't accepting any new members. A few months later I was offered the chance to beta test ebay's billpoint. So a year ago I started accepting credit cards through billpoint...didn't increase my sales one iota.
Then paypal came along and I was "hoodwinked" by a buyer into signing up...and again my sales didn't change.
You may not buy unless a seller accepts credit cards, but for everyone of you there are many others (me included) who will not use credit cards for their purchases on ebay. The sea of buyers is still large..large enough that if a seller doesn't accept credit cards there are still more than enough buyers to keep sales up...buyers who don't mind paying with checks or money orders...and buyers who prefer not to use credit cards.
From my experience, credit cards don't do much to increase sales. It is more important to have the merchandise the buyer wants, at a price he is willing to spend, presented by an ad that builds desire for the item in the potential customer.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:21:21 PM new
Pocono, I do both and I do pretty well as a seller. I don't think I walk on water, I just don't want to be treated as slime simply because I want to buy something on Ebay.
I don't mean to offend you in any way, but you seem to hate buyers. I have to wonder why you sell on internet auctions as you definitely have to deal with buyers.
Not jada on Ebay or anywhere else.
[ edited by jada on Nov 27, 2000 02:24 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2000 02:25:42 PM new
Just my 2cents, but I for one agree with pumpkinhead. If the auction states m/o only then I pass. It has to be something that I really really want, and that I can't find anywhere else, or I wont bid.
I understand that many people have left PayPal, but there are many more services out there. And quite simply, it makes things easier on the buyer to be able to pay with an online service if they so desire. I know many do not, but isn't it nice to have options.
And yes many auctions have gotten carried away with their shipping costs. It's almost like they know the item wont sell for what they want, so they will get the extra $$ another way, which they find through S&H.
I also pass on auctions with high shipping. So if there is only one form of payment accepted, and high shipping costs, which I seem to keep finding, then I go on to find another auction.
As someone said, they don't think sales are down due to shipping fees and payment terms, but the fact that there are so many more sellers out there. That's true. That's why it is so much easier now to find a buyer friendly auction. One with terms I can live with!
posted on November 27, 2000 02:33:28 PM new
Jada..yes, customers appreciate sellers who treat them with respect. But the seller who does not accept credit cards is not being disrespectful towards the buyer. Nor is the seller who wants money orders only being disrespectful. The seller who charges a small handling fee is also not being disrespectful.
Pumpkinhead seems to want the seller to be respectful to her but is not willing to be respectful of the seller's needs. She needs to respect the seller's rights to do business in the manner he wishes. She is not obligated to buy, but she shouldn't be putting down the sellers who have terms she doesn't like.
Everyone of us does business in the manner that suits our needs and produces the income we want. What works for one may not work for others. The terms she was so derisive of were not outlandish, nor were they in any way disrespectful of the customer. The terms may not have suited her, but there was nothing wrong with them.
My word of advice to any seller is this...don't try to please everyone. You can't do it. You will end up with headaches and you will still have potential customers who will complain about your TOS. No matter how hard you try, you can't please everyone!
posted on November 27, 2000 02:33:51 PM new
Not bidding because seller doesn't accept Paypal? That's fine.
Why should I pay just so buyers can use it? You say you won't pay a fee to sellers to use it (and I agree with that, I wouldn't either), but sellers should pay Paypal fees just so you have a "convenient" way to pay them?
It's not fair either way, now is it? Oh, but if I want your bid, I've got to "suck it up" and offer Paypal.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:38:43 PM new
Thanks Jada for the nice response. That is exactly what I am saying. Treat me with respect, and that as a seller you appreciate my business.
Amy, the difference in paying 5.85 for shipping and 3.20 for shipping is simple.
The seller who wants 5.85 for insured shipping is plain and simple charging too much. Sure, charge me for handling if there are costs involved. I certainly have no objections paying a reasonable handling fee when needed. If I bought a vase on ebay, I assume there is going to be a few bucks for bubble wrap, tape, box, etc. But not a 1.80 handling on something that honestly wouldnt cost more than a quarter in out of pocket expense to the seller. The seller who is charging 3.20 for shipping is not expecting anything more for her item than the final bid price. Thats all there is to it.
Pocono, I hope you weren't referring to me when you said some people dont have a clue. I certainly do not expect free shipping, wholesale prices or anything else for free.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:41:32 PM new...but sellers should pay Paypal fees just so you have a "convenient" way to pay them?
Sounds fair to me. NOT!
Now, I'm waiting to read a thread where the buyer expects the seller to send him an envelope (with stamp affixed), in order that the buyer might remit his payment. Why not... after all, it would be more convenient for the buyer if sellers would do this.
posted on November 27, 2000 02:46:02 PM new
I agree with amy on the supply/demand angle. This is one example, but if you look at the Beanie Babies 2000 Holiday Teddy, you will see that the moving average slides from $23 in October to $10 in November with the increased volume. (Sorry don't know how to link on AW, yet.)
posted on November 27, 2000 02:53:48 PM new
I know that only a small percentage of Ebay users read these boards, but I have been wondering about something.
In the last six months, reading these threads have left me with the impression that the relationship between buyers and sellers is almost a battle zone, rather than one of free trade.
Why is there so much contention between buyers and sellers?
I hope someone comes along and fixes this thread so I don't have to keep scrolling all the way across the screen.
. I've even gone to the extent of accepting checks as cash (same day shipping) with great feedbacks.