posted on December 2, 2000 09:25:33 AM new
I am presently involved in a dispute with Paypal. Customer claimed package never arrived. I closed the Paypal account, then later opened another account (same name, email address) to claim a few late payments that came in. As you may know, I was in the process of closing out Paypal anyway.
I did not provide a refund to the customer because the customer refused to fill out an insurance claim. At the time of the dispute, Paypal's terms of use clearly required the customer to make several documented attempts to resolve the dispute, and also file an insurance claim.
Instead of enforcing the terms which were spelled out on their site, Paypal locked my account. They ignored my emails, instead attempting strong-arm tactics to grab my money.
OKAY, HERE'S WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING.
I got an email from Paypal stating that since I closed my second account, which their service rep called "an attempt to get out from under [the] obligation," they have decided to end their investigation in favor of the customer.
The problem is, the account in question is already closed and the funds have been removed. So here's the kicker. Just three minutes before this email arrived, I got the following separate message from Paypal:
It has come to our attention that you may be the recipient of potentially fraudulent funds. We have initiated an investigation into this event. In the meantime, we have placed a pending reversal on the funds in question until the investigation is complete. This pending reversal will show as a deduction in your available balance. In the meantime, you are free to continue transacting using your PayPal account.
Apparently, since Paypal can not intimidate me into paying their blackmail, they have stooped to fraud. I just can not believe that at the very same time, at the very same minute that they decide to charge my (now closed) account for this dispute, they claim I have received funds from a fraudulent credit card. What do you think?
I've seen Paypal lie to customers and I've seen unethical business practices. I never thought they would stoop to fraud. I now have very serious doubts about that.
posted on December 2, 2000 09:32:39 AM newtwinsoft: If my mind was open enough to believe in this stunning coincidence, my brains would be leaking out!
posted on December 2, 2000 01:40:33 PM new
Twinsoft -- Paypal's current TOU allows them to charge your credit card for any balance they think you owe them. So, if you don't cancel any credit card that you're given them the number for, expect a charge to your card in the amount of the customer's chargeback and alleged fraud.
posted on December 2, 2000 02:48:43 PM new
PayPal's like a 10 year old running a business.
The only logical explanation for PayPal required bank account to do "verification" was to that they could do exactly what twinsoft says they have done.
As we have discussed, their terms have always been ambiguous. paypaldamon has claimed many times that the correct interpretation was that PayPal would not withdraw funds without your explicit authorization for this event. However, I think we've seen the last of paypaldamon in any role beyond company typist. paypaldamon's postings in the recent past have shown an apparent reduction in PayPal authority to zero, indicative of a bunker mentality at PayPal. One might guess that things are bad, real bad; the end may well be near. Any signs of intelligence are dimming rapidly, and indeed the paypaldamon account may well be staffed by someone other than the person who posted intelligently if naively for 3 or 4 months running.
twinsoft I suggest you contact your bank about the unauthorized withdrawal. Let us know how it goes.
posted on December 2, 2000 03:45:42 PM new
You have about 60 days to reverse any charge made to your bank account electronically. So if PP reverses a payment to you with a charge, you can reverse the reversal. It will probably require your filling out an affidavit.
posted on December 2, 2000 04:11:04 PM new
I HATE paypal. I did not have an account. My husband did but never activated it. A customer on Amazon paid Paypal by using my husbands' e-mail address. However, he can't activate this account as he forgot his password~ cant be bothered to change his password, and set up a new account! In the meantime , I asked this customer to get back her money through paypal, but they refused and said I had the money, so I set up my own account with a different e-mail address and then the customer said she couldn't send me the money as paypal still wouldn't release the money back to her. I finally just sent off the books and feel as though I got screwed by paypal! THis took a week of sending e-mails to paypal and this customer!
posted on December 2, 2000 04:17:59 PM new
if Paypal charges my credit card I will dispute it. The bank account attached to the old account has $3 dollars in it. I use a different checking account now. I had already closed my Paypal account a day prior to receiving this note. What I expect is that Paypal will reduce the amount of their final check to me in the amount they claim I recieved from the supposedly fraudulent credit card. I don't know what they will do. I've already learned that with Paypal, the head doesn't know what the feet are doing, etc.
At this point I can't even check on the amount they claim, because the account is closed. Their final check was to be in the amount of (less than) $60. I don't expect to learn much via email. Until now, Paypal hasn't figured out a way to recoup the $17 dispute from an account closed in early October. It seems they may have found a way.
I don't make charges of fraud lightly. Even with all their lies and crooked dealings, it is hard for me to believe Paypal would go so low as to falsify their claims in such a way. But the two emails, one telling me they had found in favor the customer and chastising me for closing my account, and another email saying I had received money from a stolen credit card ... those two emails arriving within three minutes of each other, are just too coincidental to ignore. (I know it sounds paranoid, but is it really?)
They want their money "by hook or by crook." Paypal, say it ain't so!
posted on December 2, 2000 07:39:04 PM newtwinsoft, I appreciate your keeping us up-to-date on your Paypal tribulations and hope you continue to do so.
posted on December 2, 2000 07:52:46 PM new
Does anyone have the phone number or a physical address for them in Palo Alto?
My account is "restricted" since Wednesday, and I have yet to find out why, despite my MANY MANY calls and emails.
I am trying to get their physical address so I can send them a FEDEX or something to hopefully get their attention, so I can get this cleared up. They keep telling me they are "swamped"... and this is their "busy season" and I'll "just have to be patient".
posted on December 2, 2000 08:18:28 PM new
It looks like Paypal will have to hire new staff to handle all the money they've been grabbing.
Paypal (Confinity, Inc.)
394 University Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94301
1-888-221-1161 (business accounts)
The phone number is for the business/premiere accounts. Regular support is a toll call to Omaha, NE. Call the business acct. number and ask to speak to a supervisor.
posted on December 2, 2000 08:51:07 PM new
Hi webware, twinsoft is much more knowledgeable than I about PayPal, but here are three phone numbers I have for them. Customer servce: 1-877-672-9725, or try 1-800-566-3645, or 1-800-836-1859. Good luck.
posted on December 3, 2000 12:50:00 AM new
twinsoft, sorry to hear about this crazy problem with PP! But just to let you know for further use...if a customer refuses to fill out a insurance claim for,now this is with the PO, I don't know about UPS or FEDEX, after 2 weeks they are obligated to pay the claim, in cash, at your local PO.this is a federal law and can be checked at any PO in the US.
posted on December 3, 2000 01:00:58 AM newif a customer refuses to fill out a insurance claim....after 2 weeks they are obligated to pay the claim, in cash, at your local PO.
I'm confused. If the item is lost, the customer is out the money. So, if a customer refuses to fill out a insurance claim he or she would be obligated to pay the claim in cash and be out twice as much as before? Who the heck came up with that law?
I think I mis-understood something.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Dec 3, 2000 01:03 AM ]
