eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 10:54:48 AM new
I just had a bidder win one of my items.It's a designer piece of clothing that has a high resale value though sold for less than $100.00.
The seller has a feedback of 1,has shades next to their name and has bought $20,000 worth of auction goods-listed on 4 pages in the last 10 days.Including diamond rings starting at $500 to $3900.00.
The person has just paid me by BILLPOINT and I am concerned here that this is very abnormal buying behavior.
I'd like to know if the buyer can do a Chargeback-sticking me with the loss of funds.
I haven't shipped the item.My policy is to ship once a week.
Should I wrie with my concern to safeharbor or another ebay area ?
|
sg52
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:05:12 AM new
Sounds very bad.
Billpoint indeed will pass through any chargeback.
I'd communicate the concern to Billpoint. Billpoint won't accept any responsibility, but they may declare fraud themselves allowing you to walk away. Even if they say yes, I'd wait a week or two and ask again.
sg52
|
eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:54:21 AM new
To add to my original post.The buyers feedback of "1" was left by a seller last night who received a payment of $5 thru Billpoint.
I don't think it could be a good idea to immediately leave feedback once an electronic payment is made.After all,what if this is a situation of fraud or chargebacks..The buyer will have glowing feedback from all of the BILLPOINT purchases even though they may not be legit.
The buyer has made 89 MAJOR purchases of high end diamonds,furs and designer clothes in 8 days.
No knick knacks or colletibles.
The tel number provided by ebay shows the person has a regular job.Pending that it is a real telephone number and they actually do work there.
So,I'm hoping this is not a bad situation
but I had a queasy feeling from the time the person bid on my item.
|
Pocono
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:57:35 AM new
Maybe it's that woman from the Florida elections board spending her payoff?
|
amalgamated2000
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:59:27 AM new
Billpoint indeed will pass through any chargeback.
Not only that, they will charge you a $10 "investigation fee" for any chargebacks, even when you have been the victim of fraud.
I recently had this happen on an international transaction 2 months after the payment was received.
|
bobbysoxer
|
posted on December 2, 2000 12:04:11 PM new
Would it be considered auction interference if you contacted the other sellers to find out if the person paid through BP?
Are all auctions with BP?
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
|
eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 12:23:35 PM new
More additions to the original post and more follow-up:
ALL of the auctions are Billpoint and or Paypal.
I noticed that the buyer had bid on a necklace that the last bid was at $150.00.She made her bid $500.00.
hmmmmmmm.
I will contact at least one of the high end sellers to find out how they intend to protect themselves.
Also,if you were selling a dimaond or diamond ring-average cost $4000.000 how would you protect yourself from the buyer saying it's fake and sending you back a bad cubic zirconia and doing a charge back ?
I have a diamond to sell but will probably take a big loss by selling it to a jeweler rather than go thru a possible scenario like that.
|
sonsie
|
posted on December 2, 2000 12:31:01 PM new
Re: diamond ring protection. First, if it's worth anywhere near $4000, get it appraised and identified by a certified gemologist. That way, you are in the position of being able to refuse a fake ring (or cheap replacement stones) returned in its place. A less safe method would be to use one of those light-pens to mark the ring and refuse a credit unless the mark shows up under a blacklight when you get it back (mark the gemstones, not the setting, if possible).
There are some other interesting methods of marking objects, but none that I can think of that will work on a high-end ring without obscuring the stones (and, legitimately, the buyer may want to have them checked out).
|
kerryann
|
posted on December 2, 2000 01:34:32 PM new
Re: Diamonds
I've seen many of those 20/20 type investigations where a person brings in an engagement ring to have it re-set. The diamond is marked before they bring it in and when the ring comes back in the new setting, it's a different (lower quality) diamond.
I've seen John Stossel confront a jewelry store owner in NYC who just kept denying that they switched it. There was never any follow up on what steps could be taken. It seems it's your word against the store.
I'd never sell any kind of jewelry with expensive stones on eBay. The potential for the old switcheroo and chargeback is just too big.
Not Kerryann on eBay
|
anais
|
posted on December 2, 2000 05:34:11 PM new
Eyedo, I wish you luck on your transaction. If it provides any comfort I have sold three pieces of high end jewelry in the past couple of years. Two on Ebay and the last piece on Yahoo. Two were credit card sales.
One item was a bracelet appraised at 18,000.00 replacement value and I sold it for 7,000.00. I communicated with all of my buyers throughout the process and held the appraisals until they had the item and were happy.
More to the point though is that I intially had the same queasy feeling about the buyer of the 7,000.00 bracelet. She had bids which totaled about 23,000.00 in a two week period. As it turned out, she won some kind of settlement and was on a buying spree!
Hope you have a happy experience. 
Anais
Live,Laugh,Love
|
howecow
|
posted on December 2, 2000 05:35:00 PM new
Are they from Calf. You know they might be a star who just got turned on to ebay? You never know.
thanks
Howecow
ps Pocono I LOVED your answer!
So howe ya doing today?
|
eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 07:59:58 PM new
The buyer is not in California but in New York and has a work number I obtained thru ebay.
I find it odd that the buyer has won bids on 5 mink coats-almost the same as well as 6 solitaire diamond rings...
In the past 2 days buyer has also bind on another $4000.00 worth of items aand is the high bidder in all.
I would think someone on a buying binge would be going for more variety!
Well,hopefully buyer did come into some grand big bucks and will spend more on ebay.
Just hope they are legal transactions!
|
unknown
|
posted on December 2, 2000 08:11:58 PM new
Get your own merchant account then you can check the address verification.
All credit cards (except Discover) will check the address provided to see if it is the same as the credit card billing address.
Billpoimt refuses to tell you this info even if you ask. But they should. With my own merchant account I know this.
This is extremely valuable in deciding if this is fraud.
|
molly001
|
posted on December 2, 2000 08:27:11 PM new
eyedo - I think your suspicions are well founded. From the buying list you have described, it looks like your buyer is lapping up all the best she/he can while "da gettin' is good"!
I thought your idea of taking this to safeharbor might be a good one but no one else has commented on it sooooooooo. Due to past dealings with Safeharbor, I'm not a very big fan of theirs.
Another idea would be to go to the T&S (Trust & Safety) Board on eBay in the Community Discussion chat boards - oh heck!
whatever they're called. Do you know where I mean? I've found the GREATEST of help there. The people who post are very knowledgeable and very willing to help. Yep, this is exactly where I'd take this for advice!
I'd hold on to that dress a bit longer.....
|
eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 08:29:12 PM new
Billpoint provides the name/address to ship to.
I will not get a merchant account.Too costly for something I don't care to use.
I've been selling online for 7 years.Way before ebay I used the newsgroups.
I accepted checks and money orders and out of about 4000 sales,only one bad check which was last year for an item that sold after the auction ended.I think the seller fully knew his account was NSF as his bank did a deep sigh and suggested I stand in line and call the States Attorneys Office.
Auctions are a small source of income for me.My *real* business collects cash or check for 1/2 of a deposit 1 year before service and the balance due same day of service and it's all spelled out a year in advance
in a contract.
In 25 years of business it's never been a problem that I don't accept Visa or MC
and I do not wish to have a credit card company eat my profits.
For a short time I did accept American Express but a few of my corporate clients took advantage of it and AM EX took too much in fees.
Our out of state corporate Clients would ask to put their balance on
their AM EX cards after their invoices were 45-60 days late.
Now everything here is COD or paid in advance and I don't have to worry about late receivables.
But auctions are fun and I do them in my off season time which is about now!
|
outoftheblue
|
posted on December 2, 2000 10:57:57 PM new
I think there's a bit of paranoia here. Maybe this person, who lives in NY is loaded and just discovered Ebay and is buying up bargains. Maybe the person owns a consignment shop and is getting stuff at a bargain price and reselling it.
Why does everyone assume fraud when someone is new and is spending a lot. Some people spend mass $$$ on QVC and I don't think they worry about it...
|
eyedo
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:10:27 PM new
You don't consider dropping $20,000 in 9 days
on HIGH END auction merchandise a bit extreme ?
I find it odd that this person being located in midtown Manhattan by real stores of every caliber would be buying diamonds by the bushel on ebay.
New York pretty much is the diamond capital of the USA.
Why would buyer buy $3900 diamond rings from strangers with no papers ?
And,more than one of the same type ?
Items this person is purchasing are things that can easily be resold.
It's doubtful they own a resale shop.The number supplied by ebay is a work number which is not a resale shop.
The person has a job and an extension number.
I don't think the person just discovered ebay since shades were next to their ID.
Person started using the ID 10 days ago.
I'll stick with my paranoia until proven otherwise in this transaction.
I own a VERY successful company for 27 years and if my intuition were so bad,I wouldn't have succeeded after the 1st year.
The few times I've been leery in a transaction,I was always proven right.
|
outoftheblue
|
posted on December 2, 2000 11:24:54 PM new
Ok so she is a stock broker who spends all of her time working and doesn't have the time to go out shopping.
If it is a scam there's not much that can be done about it and worrying just doesn't get it done. Wait until it happens (if it does) and then take what ever action is necessary.
|
getkicksonrte66
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:04:36 AM new
Recently I had a new bidder win an auction of mine and this person also had thousands of dollars in recently closed auctions that they had won, as well as auctions soon to close-big dollar Rolex watches--diamond rings etc-I immediately had a bad feeling--so I decided first to e-mail one of the sellers that my buyer had also won an auction on two weeks earlier---matter of fact the very 1st auction that this new to ebay bidder had ever won---and I inquired if this seller could tell me if all was fine with transaction and has bidder sent the money-and my reasons for concern--Immediately I got a response saying NO PYMT had arrived, and they suspected a major deadbeat! Well that began to re-confirm my original suspicions--(really at that point I should have just cancelled their bid--but I didnt!) However, instead I then proceded to request members information immediately after auction ended. Then I proceeded to contact this winning bidder(acting as if nothing was up) but in my e-mail as I always do with all my winners ia I request that the winning bidder reply back with their name & address to confirm receipt of the notification.... Well bidder had an AOL address- & me too --so I knew exactly when my e-mail was opened--24 hrs passed--and no response--so again that is not the norm either---so I immediately sent a 2nd notice---this time--and in a rather huffy respone they did give me their name & address---OOOPS did they screw up!! Immediately I noticed this address & name did not agree w/Ebays Member info---so I dialed the ph# and sure enough---that was a dead end--so I just forwarded their the e-mail w/name & address to Ebay--as well as informing them that this info did not match what they had on member--and ph# was no good--Member Identity is not one of the things that ebay wastes to much time resolving once they are notified--so about 4 passed--then POOF this bidder was suspended--outta my hair--of course I didnt sell my item--but thats not the end of the world--OH and by the way this bidder had informed me that they would be paying via PayPal--I had just dumped PayPal completely from my auctions and had not yet decided what other similar type service I wanted to use--so my terms only stated (fortunately for me this time) that I accept Money Orders or Personal Check --
Thinking back now--had I not checked on this bidders activity--or not written the other seller-and not pulled the member info-and just decided to allow bidder to pay me via PayPal--no doubt--this now defunct ebayer would have my gold ring--and I would probably have a PayPal chargeback----So I guess in a nutshell--if your leary about a bidder who you think is bidding abnormally and you feel uncomfortable--1st request Member info-then try the phone # -- I suspect if the bidder is a Fraud--its a good chance that the # will not work---and the address where they request item to be sent may not match ebays info either--Can't hurt to pull there info-- it's available for you to access provided member has a transaction with you.---Good Luck--Holidays are on us---and the Rats do come out to play!OOOPS hadnt realized info had already been pulled--this puts a different twist on things I suppose--but I'm w/those that say hold off on shipping if you suspect Fraud--If the bidder turns out to be for real and not bogus--and they have so many items they just purchased its even a good chance they won't even notice
your item hasnt arrived Its a stretch but It's a chance I'd take.
[ edited by getkicksonrte66 on Dec 3, 2000 12:14 AM ]
|
granee
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:25:25 AM new
To answer the question about switching diamonds and returning the jewelry with a less-expensive stone....new "quality" diamonds usually have an ID code number laser-engraved on them, visible under high magnification, which doesn't detract from the "look" of the stone---but it makes diamonds VERY easy to identify.
If you have an older diamond jewelry piece you want to sell online, many jewelers will (for a fee) grade & value your stone, put a code number on it, and give you a photograph of the number, taken under magnification. Then, if you sell it online and the buyer returns it for a refund with a DIFFERENT stone in it, you have proof of buyer fraud and can refuse to refund. If the buyer tries a chargeback, merchant credit card companies will take your photograph of the code number as PROOF that a switch was made, and deny the chargeback.
If your jewelry isn't valuable enough to go to that much trouble....I know a seller who sends jewelry with gemstones out in a SEALED plastic bag with an invisible code of some kind on the bag. She only takes returns of jewelry returned to her in the SAME BAGS with UNBROKEN SEALS. That way the buyer can examine it (even have a jeweler look at it), but can't switch the stone on her.
|
Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:30:18 AM new
Maybe the person is actually a Drug Dealer who uses a Stock Broker as a cover!!
Course, there are other reasons.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
starrr222
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:35:59 AM new
eyedo, first of all, if this buyer is a fraud, and they are buying alot of items that they don't intend to pay for, don't you think they know about this message center? You only have less than 100.00 at stake, but you said they have bid on 1000's. I would just wait for payment to arrive,and then ship if you are reluctant.I like bidpay, especially with my European customers.If I were going to do a scam. I would come here and to the eBay message boards to find out what sellers don't know!But what if this person is legit? Or, you could send the item insured,at your own expense for double what it's worth. Then if there is a problem, the USPO will investigate, and you bring it to a federal level. I think they would be more likey to investigate if they had to pay you the insurance money. good luck
|
outoftheblue
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:46:42 AM new
starrr222
The person has already paid via Billpoint. The seller is obligated to ship. Contacting Ebay at this point will just confirm that. You can't accuse someone of a crime before they commit it, especially if you have no proof that this is their intent.
The seller could try calling the number given and see if that is really the person's place of employment, however, this might alienate the customer.
Personally, I don't feel it is anyone's business how much I spend and would resent someone checking up on me. Maybe I'm just being picky...
[ edited by outoftheblue on Dec 3, 2000 12:48 AM ]
|
reddeer
|
posted on December 3, 2000 01:49:52 AM new
eyedo
Check this Billpoint link out, in it there is an email addy you might want to use?
[email protected]
https://www.billpoint.com/help/sellerguide/fraudtips.html
Good Luck!
|
cheeses
|
posted on December 3, 2000 02:56:56 AM new
No, you should not ship the item:
Just like folks hold checks until they clear, you should hold your item until the chargeback period has expired.
|
geminspector
|
posted on December 3, 2000 04:40:41 AM new
new "quality" diamonds usually have an ID code number laser-engraved on them, visible under high magnification, which doesn't detract from the "look" of the stone---but it makes diamonds VERY easy to identify.
I have seen this written in response to jewelry questions a few times. Please let me clarify..
I am a Gemologist and appraiser in the trade.
Laser insriptions on diamonds make up a teeny tiny portion of the market. Most of what is being traded have no inscriptions. For a stone to be inscribed it will have to be sent to a major metropolis such as NY, Dallas, Miami, etc. I live in Tampa and we have no such service here.
What you want do do is have the diamond "plotted". When I do an appraisal I plot the stone. This is a diagram that shows the exact location of each inclusion and it's type. There are no two diamonds alike, think of it as "fingerprinting" your diamond. That coupled with exact measurements, color, fluorescence and a few other things with certainly suffice in identifying your diamond.
Fees vary. I charge $30.00 for this service
--Brought to you by MHO Productions--
[ edited by geminspector on Dec 3, 2000 04:45 AM ]
|
sg52
|
posted on December 3, 2000 09:26:41 AM new
The person has already paid via Billpoint. The seller is obligated to ship.
Nonsense.
The observations made by this seller are the essence of successful fraud defense. This seller has shown more skill than all of PayPal.
The notions of "not all big spenders are crooks" and "it's none of seller's business how people spend their money" are what renders some people vulnerable to fraud.
One is never obligated by law or honor to proceed into what looks to be a scam. Once it looks bad, one is fully entitled to insist on more explanations.
sg52
|
charleng
|
posted on December 3, 2000 11:45:27 AM new
If you have the persons employment information you could call human resources to verify employment and find out maybe a little bit more about the company (maybe a telemarketer who hires lots of temps for high period only). There are a number of questions that you can ask without being in violation of privacy laws.
|
networker67
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:03:20 PM new
eyedo - Being a person who routinely drops 20 grand on ebay shopping sprees within short periods of time. I deal with sellers who have your exact same concerns. I admit it bugs the hades out of me. But I understand their position with fraud possibilities and dead beat bidders running like niagra falls on ebay.
To soothe your fears why not email your buyer and express your fears. Since you requested their contact info they have your contact info so they know you are looking into them. A little communication will go a long way to calming your fears and determining your buyers intentions in this matter.
If you still feel uneasy cancel the bid if this option is available to you and email the buyer with why you did it. If the auction has closed and the billpoint payment accepted you have to ship according to the billpoint rules. But don't just assume that because its ebay big money isn't spent here. Don't beleive me look at ebay motors and the number of European luxury cars bought by people.
|
sg52
|
posted on December 3, 2000 12:18:07 PM new
networker67 do you get a new account ever time you go into high velocity buying mode?
The new account aspect is one major clue. Someone who's been around a couple of years with a track record is unlikely to go full fraud overnight.
Most credit card fraud in the US is committed by either kids or drug addicts. Either category has a difficult time building up any kind of respectable track record spanning a couple of years.
sg52
|
