posted on December 3, 2000 08:15:52 PM
I have had bad ebayers and I recently had to put TOS in my auction.
Payment in 14 days or neg feedback, etc...
Yet I still get just as many (or more) deadbeats !!
I recently looked at others auctions who use no TOS and their percentage of items sold is higher than mine (for similar items at similar prices).
I think I am going to do away with putting TOS in my auctions now. I feel it is driving some potential buyers away and is not being effective as to keeping the deadbeats at bay.
I also get alot of buyers who ask what the shipping cost is after the auction is over, and the shipping cost is always listed in my auctions !
I figure that bidders just are not reading my auctions or my TOS !
I am thinking about removing my TOS from my auctions, but including them in my EOA notices.
posted on December 3, 2000 08:24:57 PM
I have never put TOS in my auctions, or even in my EOA letter, and I get very few deadbeats.
I do include the shipping cost, and payment types accepted. That's all the bidder needs to know. I am sure they already know that they are expected to pay.
Personally, as a bidder I am turned off by long, strict, TOS. I don't want to be threatened by negative feedback before I've even bid. Payments do occasionally get lost in the mail, or more often bidders forget to send payment. 9 times out of 10 they'll send payment along with an apology as soon as they receive a reminder.
posted on December 3, 2000 09:03:10 PM
I just have the basics - shipping, payment methods, and I add payment appreciated in 10 days at the end.
I just got off searching ebay for a few things. I was really getting frustrated. More and more people are putting longer TOS'S with more rules. And what is really madding is they put a whole page of that stuff in the beginning and the picture way at the bottom. I won't even read their rules and half the time won't take the time to scroll to the end of the page to look at the picture.
I want to see the picture first, then the description. If I'm interested then I'll read the TOS, but not if it fills the rest of the page and looks like a book.
posted on December 3, 2000 09:08:40 PM
Here is what I place in my auctions...
_____________________________________________
The "fine" print:
I like to ship all cookie cutters by USPS priority mail. This ensures that you will receive the cutters in a timely fashion as the holidays approach. It also allows me to quote an exact shipping cost to you of $3.20 (if you are in the U.S.). International buyers will pay exact USPS Global Priority shipping costs. I will pay insurance for all items I ship. I will readily consider other arrangements provided you contact me prior to auction end.
If you win multiple auctions I will gladly combine shipping.
Payment in USA dollars cash, check, money order, International money order, or via PayPal. Payment is expected in 14 days USA and 18 days International (from end of auction).
I give you feedback when your payment is received. I would appreciate feedback from you as an indication that you have received the item in good condition and are satisfied with the transaction.
_____________________________________________
I've yet to have any problems relating to TOS.
My only problem is that there is not that big a market for new cookie cutters. Most folks are looking for the older and more collectible cutters.
posted on December 3, 2000 09:25:47 PM
I have never mentioned negative feedback in my auctions. Just shipping/handling/insurance. I was getting so many deadbeats I experimented with different wordings in my invoice and late-pay reminders.
Lately I've been getting fewer deadbeats. Lots, but still about half the usual number. I don't even mention negative feedback any more. I just tell customers in my invoice that if payment is not received within 21 days, I will consider the transaction void. I also include a link to eBay's NPB policy.
It's possible that threats do more harm than good. It's also possible that newbie bidders (of which I get a lot) don't understand their obligation, and also don't understand the possible consequences of non-payment. My tone now is helpful, not adversarial.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to point out that higher-volume sellers run a much greater risk (percentage-wise) of retaliatory feedback. I get around 50 deadbeats a month. eBay is expecting a lot if they figure I'm going to leave 50 complaints a month and put my own feedback rating on the line. All my bidders need to see is 20 complaints a month in my feedback rating. That'll do wonders for my sales.
I have a stake in eBay, much more so than any casual first-time buyer.
Having said that, I think that a line such as "please don't bid if you don't intend to buy" is perfectly acceptable. It is non-confrontational. Even so, I don't do it because I think some bidders may still take offense.
posted on December 4, 2000 02:11:11 AM
The two things sure to make me hit the back button are 1. Not specifying shipping cost, and B. Long, threatening TOS - some look like they were written by a lawyer and others are just rants - either way, I don't bid.
posted on December 4, 2000 04:43:33 AM
You're assuming, cix, that posting TOS will cause bidders to act one way or the other. As we've all learned, some bidders will do exactly as they please no matter what.
IMHO, that's not the primary purpose of posting TOS.
TOS are to cover the seller's behind AND to reassure the bidder. If you tell the bidder how you will act re e.g. payment terms, payment/shipping turnaround, form of shipping, and returns/exchanges, the bidder cannot justifiably claim post-auction since you didn't tell him how you'd handle a situation, HE gets to set the terms or, just as bad, that YOU are so unprofessional that you haven't even considered what you'd do if e.g. an item arrives damaged or not as represented. It's the seller's guarantee that seller will behave in a professional manner, and expects the bidder to do the same.
There's a difference between setting out the rules in concise, neutral (and even reassuring) language, and using them as a club to intimidate customers. It takes work to develop TOS that are friendly yet don't turn the seller into a doormat, but IME it's
worth it. As a bidder, I'm much more willing to bid on an item with posted TOS (no matter how rambling) than one without, because at least I have a clue about how the seller intends to deal with me.
posted on December 4, 2000 08:12:41 AM
If I see threats in an auction description, I quickly click out. I won't interact with anyone who treats me as if I might be a dirtball.
posted on December 4, 2000 08:25:58 AM
It's sort of like being greeted at the entrance of a restaurant by the owner who says, "If you don't pay your bill at the end of the meal, I am going to call the police and have you arrested." How likely are you to want to enter the restaurant?
posted on December 4, 2000 09:23:58 AM
chococake,
I see a definant disadvantage to putting the picture first.
When I'm browsing auctions and the picture is first its very frustrating waiting for it to load before you can read the description. I often times push the stop buttom so I can get to the description, if I like the description them I'll load the pic.
Or sometimes I hit the back button as I just don't have the time to wait.
I have no TOS in my auctions, shipping and payment method with the picture at the bottom. By the time they read the description the picture is usually loaded.
.
edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on December 4, 2000 09:28:20 AMTOS are to cover the seller's behind AND to reassure the bidder
I agree with this, and with the idea that TOS should be viewed as a marketing tool.
There's one more good reason for including TOS -- to cut down on the number of questions you have to answer by email. It's just easier to put things like the methods of payment accepted in your auctions rather than having to answer the same question over and over again.
posted on December 4, 2000 09:35:08 AM
packer you make a good point, but if it takes a long time to load pictures they're probably too big or too many.
posted on December 4, 2000 09:43:18 AM
I have learned the hard way to click the back button on any auction that does not clearly spell out complete shipping charges up front. Buyer pays shipping or buyer pays s&h just don't cut it for me anymore. I was consistantly being over charged on items for shipping and having handling charges tacked on to auctions that stated that buyers pays actual shipping. IF you have handling charges, I want to know up front, before I bid.
If you have a long TOS or any threats or mention of negative feedback, I will pass.
I like good, complete descriptions with measurements and complete condition statement. I will not bid if you have one sentence of description, no condition and long/unfriendly TOS.
On my auctions, I do use the TOS as a marketing tool. They are brief and friendly. I put that I would appreciate payment within 14 days unless other arrangements are made prior to bidding. I do sell some high ticket items and I want my bidders to know that if asked, I can be flexible. No one has ever asked and my payments usually all come within a week of end of auction.
I always give shipping costs and insurance costs (if desired) and I don't charge any handling fees.
I ship my items right out upon payment but I usually wait to give feedback so that the buyer has time to receive the item. But, I do give feedback always.
I have had 1 deadbeat in 3 years but I sell antiques and collectibles and most of my items are in the hard to find/very desirable
area of collecting.
posted on December 4, 2000 10:16:16 AM
So, cix, do you actually have policies in place (IOW, "unpublished" TOS), or do you basically make things up as you go along? How do I, as a bidder, know whether you've even considered the problems that can arise?
Assuming the description/pix are clear and coherent, here are the rest of the questions I need to have answered before I shell out significant $ in a bid:
What kind of payment is accepted?
Will there be a delay if I send a check?
What are shipping charges?
Is insurance included or offered?
What will seller do if item is lost or damaged in transit?
What will seller do if item is not as represented?
I absolutely will not make a significant bid on an item when I have no idea what seller's practice is in these matters. The few times I've bid and NOT asked these questions beforehand, I've gotten burned: in every case, seller's reply to a report of damaged/misrepresented goods has been "Tough luck." Nooooo thanks.
posted on December 4, 2000 10:32:10 AM
Heres mine TOS, I think this about covers it. I never have e-mails asking additional questions about my TOS.
Winning bidder pays shipping/handling of $XXXXXXXXX, insurance upon request, Continental USA . I can and will combine auction wins to save you postage. PLEASE NOTE: If my shipping quote turns out to be *$1.00 or more* less then I quote, a refund will be packed in with your item.
International Sales Now Accepted...CREDIT CARD, INTERNATIONAL M.O. or CASH ONLY........... I will need your destination Address at close of auction to calculate shipping costs.
>>>>>>>>>>I TRY MY BEST TO SHIP WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIVING PAYMENTS OF:<<<<<<<<<< >
PAYMENT OPTIONS:
Pay by VISA or MASTERCARD by using ~ PayDirect ~ OR ~
PayPal(verified) ~ A Secure Online Payment Services (I will provide a link in the EOA notice),
Pay by VISA or MASTERCARD Using my Merchant Account.
Checks OR Money Orders
PLEASE NOTE: I do not profess to be an expert on this item(s) so PLEASE ASK ALL QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING! I give descriptions to the best of my ability and try to take self explanitory pictures........Most of my items up for auction are old and/or used, .....refunds only if I grossly misrepresent the item(s) up for auction, in that case ALL monies will be refunded on the return of my item. So read & look at pictures closely. Remember your bid is a binding contract.
Thank You, Good Luck and Happy Bidding!!........
edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on December 4, 2000 10:36:59 AM
HCQ, you forgot "What's your astrological sign?" You may want to do the seller's chart before sending payment. Just kidding! Sorry to hear of your bad experiences.
Actually, I had to chuckle when I read your post. I've got one customer now who has sent several emails. In fact, nine emails the last time I checked. Talk about your hand-holding. My latest response to the customer was, "Your package was mailed three days ago. Please be patient." (I'm really starting to get fed up.) She writes back, "So you sent it first class?"
I didn't respond to that last one. She probably sent another email over the weekend. I'm running out of polite responses. Excuse me, I don't care if you're buying the Mona Lisa, there's no reason to send 10 emails to a seller.
From my experience, customers like this are NEVER satisfied with their purchases.
posted on December 4, 2000 12:59:36 PMTwinsoft, if you'd put your shipping method and how often you ship in your TOS, two of your customer's demands for "hand holding" would've been taken care of without an email exchange.
As packer and codasaurus have so aptly demonstrated, ALL six (count 'em - SIX) of my questions can easily be answered in a few friendly sentences. Now that I know up front what I can reasonably expect from them, I'm more comfortable risking more $ in my bid.
Unlike in a B&M shop, online bidders can't size up the seller or handle the merchandise. A wise seller provides more assurances, not less.
posted on December 4, 2000 04:34:38 PM
Hi, HCQ. Those are good points. Luckily the customer I described happens infrequently. I personally feel that a longer TOS is not helpful. I put the shipping fee in, and that's it.
I have worked hard at eBay for three years to build up a feedback rating of 3400. I now "bank" on that feedback profile to demonstrate my abilities and what customers can expect when dealing with me. Most of the comments mention good, timely communication and fast delivery.
I'm sure if you are considering a serious bid, you'll look not only at the TOS but more importantly at the seller's feedback rating. Mine demonstrates that I deal in good faith. For example, I cash customers' checks without a hold. I expect a minimum of trust on the customer's part as well. Most of the items I sell are under $20, and I don't see any need for TOS several paragraphs long.
I write my TOS based on what I expect when I buy at eBay. How much does it cost and is it insured? I don't like long TOS'es, even helpful ones, or terms that serve to promote the seller.
The customer type I described above I have encountered perhaps 10 times in 15,000 transactions. They send a million emails all throughout the auction process, and are invariably unhappy afterwards. The problem lies with the customer's personality, not the item description or terms.
