posted on December 4, 2000 04:34:59 PM
This was posted by a Pink on the ebay Trust & Safety Board. I encourage everyone who has an opinion to post it and let ebay know how you feel about this.
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Hello Trust and Saftey Chat Members,
An interesting situation has risen recently.
Here is the scoop.
What happens if a member emails the winning bidder of an auction and tells that winning bidder that the seller of that auction has misrepresented the item or that they are a big fraud?
As eBay currently stands, this is not either Auction Interference, mailing bidders in an open auction to warn them away from a seller or item, no is it SPAM, sending unsolicited, commercial email, including unwanted email to past bidders.
The reasons why it doesn't fit either definition is because the auction has closed and interference only applies during an open auction. It also is not SPAM because, yes the email is unwanted, but it is not commercial.
I would like to know your thoughts on this.
eBay will be reviewing these policies and I thought it would be a good idea to get the members' thoughts on this so that I can present this to the powers that be.
Do you think this should be considered interference?
posted on December 4, 2000 04:44:30 PM
eBay members should not contact or have access to other members' private info, including emails, phone numbers and street addresses, unless they have agreed to do business.
If eBay is only a venue, why are they giving out my personal information to anyone who asks? It is entirely inappropriate.
You want to talk about auction interference? See my thread about the half.com banners showing up on book search result pages. THAT is what I see as auction interference, perpetrated by eBay itself.
posted on December 4, 2000 05:05:46 PM
I ended up warning some folks about a deadbeat bidder in time to contact the next lowest bidder, before the deal went south on all counts. That's the other edge of this twin sided sword. This fellow was bidding wildly on items, claiming his business had a ruptured gas line, and then moving on. Some folks got paid, if he felt like it, others like myself didn't. What's remarkable is that ebay bought his story and he wasn't NARU'd. Apparently some power bid sellers who he frequented came to his defense. To heck with the little guy.
posted on December 4, 2000 05:51:33 PM
Well In my Opinion anything said to my bidders about my auctions by another seller or user of ebay out side of feed back even if the auction is closed is interferance even if the person has postive things to say about me or my items.
Active or Ended An Item I have listed on ebay is an auction item any comments nontransactional is interference not only with a Auction but With a Business and a service I am paying to use.
Also there NON Transactional comments to bidders or sellers can only be concidered rumor and hear say untill it is proven with out a shadow of a doubt.
Most seller have experanced even retalatory feed back one or more times and knows that at this point many time you can even believe much of the negitive feed back you read of sellers who been on ebay the longeast before all feed back rule were changed. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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ebay has always considered that to be auction interference in the past... ebay has always stated that the auction has not 'closed' until payment has been received by the seller and the item has been received by the buyer... in the past... It has not been very clear in the User Agreement, however.
Fact is, if it's not against the rules, User A could just haul off and email all of the bidders of anyone who closed an auction for the same item that User A was selling, accusing the seller of all kinds of stuff, and then put the bidders back on ebay looking for the items that User A just happen to have at auction. Of course, using a different email address would make it work better... as they might suspect otherwise.
If that isn't against the rules, if it's not MADE to be against the rules, why have rules about auction interference at all?
What ebay REALLY needs to do is remove the ability for users who are not involved in a transaction together to even GET the email addresses of other users that they have no business emailing.
If you see something wrong, report it to SafeHarbor. If someone is in eminent danger of being ripped off, report it to TimeSensitive.
posted on December 4, 2000 07:53:34 PM
[i]It also is not SPAM because, yes the email is unwanted, but it is not commercial. /i]
What is this, the "I suppose it depends on what your definition of 'is' is" school of semantics?
The email sent is unsolicited. It relates directly to a commercial transaction. By any stretch of the imagination, this is SPAM.
Moreover, ebay's current "auction interference" and SPAM policies BOTH address this issue.
Ebay's "auction interference" policy forbids contact with bidders on other sellers' ongoing auctions - i.e., "present" bidders.
Its SPAM policy forbids unsolicited commercial contact with bidders on competitors' closed auctions - i.e, "past" bidders.
Whether you call a bidder on an auction which has ended but where goods and payment have not been exchanged a "present" or "past" bidder, ebay's current policy still forbids competitors to contact that bidder. BOTH doors are closed.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 4, 2000 07:55 PM ]
I think your statement regarding "toyranch"
was uncalled for and out of line.
Toyranch.
I had this happen to me a week or two ago,high bidder was emailed by a third party saying I had misrepresented the item.I had not though my description was somewhat confusing though not intentional.
Anyway I ended the deal cost me 750 dollars and I ate the fees.This really bothered me and there was nothing I could do about it.Other than end the transaction or take a neg.
There is another side to this,if someone emails the high bidder and charges the seller with fraud.
Could that not be considered defamation and if sent to enough bidders by this one person damage your business reputation and opne them up to a law suit.
posted on December 4, 2000 09:42:12 PM
Ebay auctions are contracts. Contracts aren't over until all parts of the contract have been completed.
In an ebay auction the bid is the offer, the seller accepts the offer when the auction ends and he sends out the end of auction notce...that notice is a demand for the renumeration agreed to in the contract. Until the renumeration has passed from the bidder to the seller and the seller transfers the goods (merchandise) the contract is still open. Any interference by a third party to attempt to break the contract may be considered restraint of trade?
Ebay has rightly said they cannot make a determination if an item is not as decribed (fraudulent) because they do not have possesion of the merchandise. They should hold to the same concept when it comes to someone contacting the high bidder in an ended auction...that third person does not have physical possesion of the merchandise and therefore has no standing to warn someone else that the item is fraudulent or not as described. It should be considered unlawful interference in someones business and cause for severe penalties for the interferring party.
posted on December 4, 2000 10:19:29 PM
I'm Glad That my e mail address is available for members. I have cinched many sales replying to questions regarding my auctions.Sure all is not perfect but buyers having access to me is a definate plus.
If a user who has committed fraud in the past reregisters and starts doing it again, and SafeHarbor acts too slowly, allowing the auctions to close and bidders are then at risk, is it a rules violation to email and warn them?
Specifically, the rule:
43030001 Member Violations: Email from other Users: I received an email warning me away from a seller or item
This is a violation of our Privacy Policy/User Agreement. If you received an email from another user warning you away from a seller or an item during an open auction, please report it to eBay by sending the email with full headers and item number(s) to [email protected]
What about after the bidding ends. The auction is no longer open, right?
posted on December 5, 2000 02:49:27 PM
Sounds like somebody ticked somebody off and are a wee bit upset at the retribution.
Well HCQ the email isn't SPAM because to be SPAM it has to offer you something that is tangible and has a value to be determined. Since nothing is offered only information given out and there is no charge for the information given out. The email doesn't fit the legal definition of SPAM.
Now is an individual engaging in that practice committing auction interferance. Depends on whose shoes you are wearing. Heck it could be called consumer advocacy. The real issue is what has a person done to another person to have them engage in such behavior against them.
I would suspect that the person receving this treatment probably deserves it. But because it abuses loopholes, I would submit that it only be used in the most extreme cases.
posted on December 6, 2000 09:15:49 AM
I received an email from Gianni. He states he is absolutely sure that it is not currently against the rules or SafeHarbor's Charter to email the bidders of other sellers in a closed auction to 'warn' them about that seller. He states he has discussed it with SafeHarbor Management.
<sarcasm>While you're doing that, I think I'm going to go 'warn' the winners of other seller's auctions for items I currently have up for bid so they'll all come bid on mine instead of paying the sellers they won them from. </sarcasm>
