bp238
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posted on December 13, 2000 08:26:04 AM
I got ripped off by a seller and then jumped through all the hoops of the paypal agreement and did NOT get refunded like the agreement said I would. It was a VERIFIED seller and that did not matter. They got my money, I never got my stuff...simple as that! It was the old agreement that promised a full refund in 30 days after you filed the claim. The new agreement where NOW they will only pay you back what THEY get from the crook(HA!) is not worth the RBG it's written on! NEVER pay with paypal thinking your money will be refunded if you get ripped off. IT WON'T HAPPEN, I don't care what they say. Possession is 9/10'ths and don't forget it!! It cost me $375.00 to find out paypal is a SCAM!!
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fountainhouse
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posted on December 13, 2000 08:29:51 AM
Didn't I just read this post yesterday?
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RB
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posted on December 13, 2000 08:38:13 AM
Ho Hum, followed by a big yawn ....
What's that saying: "A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted" ....
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Bluee
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posted on December 13, 2000 09:19:59 AM
What would of happened if you sent a money order? Would money orders be a scam?
Bah.
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bp238
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posted on December 13, 2000 09:28:29 AM
Money orders don't have a money back guarantee...paypal did. At least that's what was in writing. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the old agreement? What are other people doing who got taken by this fake protection agreement? Does anyone know of any class action lawsuits pending? How about state attorny generals, anyone tried that with success? Anyone know if the FTC has a process for fraudelent business practices like those paypal uses? Just lookin for some answers and to get the word out to a couple more people that paypal is crooked. I know the message is pretty clear from what I've read so far in these posts but if I can save one person from the same fate by repeating the same story it's worth it.
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 13, 2000 09:42:13 AM
HI bp238,
I can have someone look at the issue if you email me at [email protected]. I would need the date of the transaction in question.
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bp238
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posted on December 13, 2000 12:06:37 PM
Thanks Damon, I sent you the info and asked someone familiar with the paypal fraud plan what they thought of you and will paste their reply below. What do you say to these claims?
Quote:"The impression I get is that Damon is between a rock and a hard place. On
the one hand, he wants to help. On the other hand, he works for PP and as
such, he must toe the company line. This means that he has to repeat the
company lies on the boards even when we all know they are lies. In the past,
he has helped a few people with problems, usually related to frozen
accounts. As for recovering money, I dont think he can do much. If the
seller wont give it back, dont expect PP to give you a gift. One of my
customers was ripped off by a PP seller who gave a fake address and possibly
a fake name. PP told him to wait 30 days, then file a report. They basically
jerked him around for two months and then said tough luck. During this
period, I contacted Damon on his behalf. He asked me to forward the info. A
week later I asked what happened. He asked for the info again. A week later
I asked what happened. He asked for the info a third time. He is either very
overwhelmed and disorganized or this is just another PP method to delay and
delay. Fortunately, my customer did use a credit card and was able to charge
it back.
You have nothing to lose by contacting Damon, but probably not much to gain.
Let me know if you get anywhere."
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vargas
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posted on December 13, 2000 01:04:28 PM
Anyone know if the FTC has a process for fraudelent business practices....
https://www.ftc.gov/ftc/complaint.htm9
[ edited by vargas on Dec 13, 2000 01:05 PM ]
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number47
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posted on December 13, 2000 01:07:01 PM
Thanks Damon, I sent you the info and asked someone familiar with the paypal fraud plan what they thought of you and will paste their reply below. What do you say to these claims?
Great. He offers to help you, and then you stick your finger in his eye. That's a REAL incentive for him to work on your problem.
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paypaldamon
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posted on December 13, 2000 01:24:35 PM
Hi Bp238,
While I can appreciate the comments of the user, many of the items that I get are not handled by me personally.
I have to refer these items to other departments and I have to have faith in their ability to complete anything that is passed along to them.
Users that email me do let me know if there situation has not been resolved and it gives me the ability to make sure that it is completed.
Based on the content of the email, I think I know who the party is. This person has had a direct line to me for many months and we do discuss policy issues.
My job, primarily, is to view the concerns of the users on the boards and report them. If it is a customer service related issue, my job is to answer it or get it to someone that can.
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bp238
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posted on December 13, 2000 01:54:46 PM
number47,
I was not sticking my finger in damons eye, I was mearly bringing to light certain facts that concerned me. His response speaks for itself and had you waited maybe you would have seen I'm not a war with the "freindly's". This is a new situation for me and I will ask all questions that pertain. Until now I thought paypal was a freindly dependable safe service. Now I'm being bombarded with information to the contrary. The comments about Damon demanded an answer. The fact that the answer came says more than the answer itself. In most situations had the comments been true to spec, the answer would not have been forthcoming. The fact that Damon rebutted says to me he really IS interested in helping and not just posting to give gullible people false hope then forgetting about the issue. I appreciate anything anyone can do for me in this situation be it however small though I won't count my chickens just yet. The bottom line is Paypal breached the contract and that's where the problem lies. Had they followed through with the agreement, I would not be here. Thank you for your reply Damon, any help at all would be appreciated.
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bp238
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posted on December 13, 2000 04:50:23 PM
Well, that was quick. I finally got a response from paypal concerning this situation. They shut down my credit card paying ability. I just tried to pay for something and it said my credit card company denied the charge, yea right. I tried to use another credit card and it said the same thing. Both cards are fully functional. Oh well, no big loss that's for sure. It's not like the payments were protected or anything, just quicker.
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bp238
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posted on December 14, 2000 07:30:00 PM
OK, two things. First it WAS my credit card company that stopped my card from working. Since all this happened, I started paying with credit card only for each transaction in the exact amount of the item so I would have the chargeback ability if I was frauded again and they found it suspicious and temporarily stopped my card. Secondly, Damon...you must be doing something to help and I thank you for that. The following is a email I got from paypal less than 24 hours after I sent Damon my information:"Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Thank you for submitting your claim with us at PayPal.com. After reviewing
your claim, we have ruled in your favor. However, before we can credit
your account, we will need a copy of the following:
1. Driver's license
2. Utility bill (phone or electric bill)
3. Affidavit (This is the Buyer Protection Claim Form that was filled out
and sent to us via email. Please print out the form and sign the affidavit
at the end of the form).
Please submit these three items together. These documents must be mailed
and postmarked within twenty-five calendar days upon receipt of this email
to receive proper credit. Please send to:
PayPal
Claims Review - BUYPRO
P.O. Box 50185
Palo Alto, CA 94303
That was pretty impressive! Of course, I still won't count the chickens. When I do (or don't) I will post it here. If this pans out, I will be truly impressed but still a bit bewildered at it all. I would be interested to know if anyone else has gotten this far only to be disappointed.
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twinsoft
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posted on December 14, 2000 08:08:57 PM
Why is it always PayPalDamon to the rescue? Why can't email or telephone support handle these problems? Is it because Paypal realizes how damaging threads like this one are to its business? I wonder how long it would have taken to resolve this situation had it not been posted in a public forum. THINK!!
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vargas
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:05:04 PM
Honest question here -- how do you achieve final resolution of these problems if you don't pay utility bills? What if the utility bills are not in your name?
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Murph
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:10:41 PM
Vargas--
Excellent question. I was wondering exactly the same thing. All our utility bills are in my partner's name. I would be left high and dry if I had to show a utility bill in my name.
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tc61380
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posted on December 15, 2000 09:48:16 AM
What is up with this CC statement and utility bill??
I thought *cough cough* bank account verification was good enough!
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bp238
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posted on December 28, 2000 08:38:38 PM
Well....I'm counting my chickens now....all three hundred and seventy five of them!! The following is an email I received today from paypal:
Dear :
The dispute amount has been credited back your account. At this time, if
the purchase was made with a credit card, the credit will go back to your
original method of payment.
Please review our terms of use to ensure that you are complying and are
protected by our policies. We regret that you have experienced this
unsavory action and we look forward to serving you in the future.
Sincerely,
Joseph Bucher
Account Review Dept.
I went to my paypal account and sure enough, it's all there. I must say the illinformed here at this message board caused much undue stress. Although late, paypal did hold up to the most important part of our contract. As to why, I'm not sure. Damon may have helped or the "next day response" may have been a coincidence. There's no proof either way. If the only reason I got paid was because I talked to Damon this would be a problem for sure due to all the others who would have been hung out to dry. Although due to the fact that noone has posted here that they were screwed after doing everything right, I must give that decision to paypal. Anyone who did not get paid must have not crossed a "T" or dotted an "I". I'm just glad I got my money back and hope others will learn from this post. Bottom line is, ANY insurance you get is gonna be a bitc# to pay and you better do EVERYTHING right or you have no chance. The Best thing is to not take ANY risks. If there is the slightest doubt, use escrow or tell the theif to kiss your a$$ and go find another sucker! Damn the negative feedback and keep your money safe!
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hcross
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posted on December 28, 2000 08:48:06 PM
Feel very lucky, I got scammed out of $301 and Paypal would do NOTHING besides make a "notation" on the sellers account. I was just denied my insurance claim with ebay's insurance because they said this was a Paypal matter. I made a fool out of myself on these boards defending Paypal, what do I get in the end? The loss of $300 and no one will do a damn thing about it.
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vargas
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posted on December 29, 2000 07:37:24 AM
[i]I must say the illinformed here at this
message board caused much undue stress.[/i]
And just who in this thread gave you any "ill-informed" advice that caused you any "undue stress?"
Looks to me like you were pretty stressed-out when you started this little number!
I hate UBB
[ edited by vargas on Dec 29, 2000 07:37 AM ]
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bp238
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posted on December 29, 2000 06:01:19 PM
Vargas, please pay attention before responding or risk looking a fool. "Message board" and "Thread" are not one in the same. I did extensive research (reading,...careful reading) before starting this "thread". It seems in hindsight most people throughout this "message board" are like hcross who replied before you. Not enough information to make a determination. Other people feed off of posts like that and wholla!...the "illinformed" appear. Do a few searches and find halftruths everywhere. I found NO posts, not one, like mine where ALL appropriate information was entered. After all, it has been my experience that when you do what your supposed to,...you get what you're promised. Albeit, a little bit late.
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MRBucks
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posted on December 29, 2000 06:14:00 PM
bp238...
You said:
"After all, it has been my experience that when you do what your supposed to,...you get what you're promised. "
Thats been my contention all along about most all the Pay Pal bashing posts....
Understanding and playing by the rules sure does help keep a person out of trouble...
In real life and the online world...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
..."If you keep doing what you've been doing...
...you'll just keep getting what you've been getting"...
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vargas
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posted on December 29, 2000 07:08:59 PM
"I did extensive research (reading,...careful reading) before starting this "thread". "
And that research consisted of what beyond reading a message board?
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ed123
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posted on December 29, 2000 09:28:41 PM
Hi, PaypalDamon. Could you please address some of my concerns that I wrote about in my "PAYPAL MONEY ISSUES" thread? Thanks
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bp238
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posted on December 30, 2000 07:16:46 AM
Vargas,...I'll type slow....I read the message boards for approx. 3 hours and came to the wrongful conclusion paypal would not pay determined by what was posted in previous threads. Please read this over and over until you get it.
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vargas
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posted on December 30, 2000 08:43:59 AM
bp238
No, I get what you are saying. I just don't consider reading message boards to be "careful research." It's like reading just the tabloids and thinking onr has a well-rounded view of the day's news.
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sg52
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posted on December 30, 2000 09:38:22 AM
I just don't consider reading message boards to be "careful research."
I do.
It does take an element of skill. Many, maybe even most postings contain some inaccuracy or another.
But the skillful reader can derive the truth from reading an active discussion of most topics.
The exceptions are topics where no one, not a single poster, is truly competent to post on the topic. PayPal and their relationship with their customer base is not one of those topics.
sg52
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cin131
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posted on December 30, 2000 07:34:30 PM
I too, am disappointed in paypal's scam protection. Fortunately, I only lost $24.00. In order to file with paypal, for money lost on an ebay auction I have to provide "a copy of the eBay Claim that you filed and satisfactory evidence
that your eBay Claim was granted, so you should retain a copy of these
documents." Ebay told me that since the amount that I lost was less than their deductible, I cannot file an insurance claim. I asked paypal about this, and they re-itereated the first email, word for word. While I'm glad I didn't lose alot of money, still, $25 is a nice chunk to lose right before Christmas.
This has also caused me to completely stop using paypal. I may not have much more protection with a money order, but at least then the crooks have to wait a few days.
cin131
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wowow
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posted on December 31, 2000 02:28:32 PM
I just went though 7 MONTHS of trying to get either the item or a refund from a seller with 200+ perfect feedback. I sent EVERY lie and excuse the seller gave me, even the fake tracking numbers she gave me on 2 occassions - every SINGLE email was forwarded to paypal which were well over 50. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see this woman was pulling a real fast one. Paypal did NOTHING...the good news is - I made her life so miserable sending email to EVERY FRAUD PROTECTION AGENCY, all her isp's, the attorney general etc. that she finally refunded my money ( 185.00) on Christmas eve. If you are looking for protection through paypal - GOOD LUCK - I sure didn't get it. The lesson I did learn was this - if you use paypal - go through your visa card - if you don't get the item in 30days file a complaint immediately....visa WILL take it off your bill!
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