yisgood
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posted on December 13, 2000 06:04:17 PM
Here the situation: there's a new seller on ebay with a 0 rating and a hotmail email id. He's selling expensive digital cameras with low prices and no reserve. His auctions say "Paypal only." I checked in Paypal and he has an unverified personal account. This means that he can only accept up to $100 a month. But he's listing a bunch of cameras in the $400 - $600 range. Everything about this sounds like some kind of scam. My other question is: Why are people bidding? Why would someone send hundreds of dollars to an unknown seller with a hotmail address?
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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hcross
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posted on December 13, 2000 06:30:11 PM
Because they are morons and you can bet your butt they will be here in a few weeks bemoaning the fact that they were screwed. Heather
[ edited by hcross on Dec 13, 2000 06:30 PM ]
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Shoshanah
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posted on December 13, 2000 08:13:40 PM
[ edited by Shoshanah on Dec 14, 2000 08:29 AM ]
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pocono
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posted on December 13, 2000 08:52:24 PM
.
[ edited by pocono on Dec 14, 2000 09:20 AM ]
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amalgamated2000
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posted on December 13, 2000 09:47:05 PM
I've given up keeping up with the nuances fo Paypal limits/verifications/hoops to jump through, but how will this guy collect the money if he is limited to $100 per month?
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grumpyebayer
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posted on December 13, 2000 10:45:19 PM
You are not limited to $100 if you are not verified.
You can only accept that amount without upgrading to a business or premiere account.
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outoftheblue
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posted on December 14, 2000 01:25:31 AM
grumpyebayer ???????????????
He has an unverified personal account. He can't accept credit card payments for more than $100 per month. He could however accept bank account and PayPal account transactions for the full amount...
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HartCottageQuilts
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posted on December 14, 2000 04:37:08 AM
Seller is as dumb as his bidders.
Clearly, seller hasn't SOLD anything yet so he hasn't gone over Paypal's limit, and he's so clueless about Paypal he doesn't know the problem will arise. (I might go further and suggest that if seller had a clue about Paypal, he wouldn't be using it anyway, but that's another thread.)
Shosh, I don't get it either, but I see it all the time  Maybe these bidders all think like you and me, but are buying Christmas presents for folks who don't?
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yisgood
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posted on December 14, 2000 06:39:39 AM
Last night this seller closed several auctions with well over a thousand dollars in total costs. Most of his bidders have very low feedback. I'm wondering if he'll now tell his bidders that they have to pay with non-CC money. And I wonder how his bidders will take this since his auction never mentioned it. I did email the info to paypaldamon, so that they can keep an eye on it because I would like to prevent someone from getting ripped off. Sometimes people have to be protected from themselves.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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yisgood
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posted on December 14, 2000 06:44:03 AM
Guess what! Just looked at his auctions and he's already NARU. With a feedback of zero. Surprising how that happened but better sooner than later.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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merrie
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posted on December 14, 2000 07:16:56 AM
You can have an unverified Premier account and accept unlimited CC funds. This just means you did not give PayPal a bank account number. You pay fees on your transactions and everything else, but have not let them have the access to your bank account. Meredith
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grumpyebayer
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posted on December 14, 2000 08:12:30 AM
"I checked in Paypal and he has an unverified personal account. This means that he can only accept up to $100 a month."
My partner has an unverified personal Paypal account. She normally only uses it for buying. Last week she sold a piece of ugly junk for $420 + shipping. The user paid using credit card through paypal. The only thing she got from paypal is a notice telling her she is reaching her credit card receiving limits.
From Paypal:
"Credit Card Receiving Limit. Personal Accounts are limited to receiving $500 of credit card payments every six months. Payments funded from the sender's bank account or existing PayPal account balance will not count against the recipient's limit. Payments funded wholly or partially by a credit card are classified as credit card payments in the PayPal system"
That notice above says nothing about being verified or unverified.
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yisgood
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posted on December 14, 2000 08:17:52 AM
grumpyebayer: the unverified has nothing to do with the limit. I just put that in because I can't believe that folks would send hundreds of dollars to a hotmail address of a seller with 0 rating and unverified PP account. You might as well just toss cash out the window and hope someone finds it and sends you something of value. As for the limits, you have $500 for the 6 months ending Dec 20. After that it goes to $100 a month. Last night this guy closed several digital cameras at over $500 each. That means not one of his buyers would be able to pay him with a CC through PP and PP was the only payment he accepted. I suspected that he would be telling his buyers they had to use non-CC (though it didnt say so on the auction) in which case thye would be unable to charge back when the items didnt arrive. This whole thing screamed fraud to me. I notified Damon last night. Today this seller is NARU with a zero rating. I dont know how that can happen unless an investigation uncovered something. Fraud on auction sites hurts all of us.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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grumpyebayer
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:06:06 AM
I agree that fraud does hurt everyone. From bogus chargebacks to sellers misrepresenting items.
However you reported someone that you have never dealt with, don't know his intentions or anything about them. He could have been suspended by ebay for laughing at their new selected bidders list option.
If he is a new seller ebay has a credit card for him on file. For which they verify the billing address. Unless he has assumed someone elses identity ebay has a pretty good idea of who and where he is.
If I am not mistaken he needed to put a credit card on file to register with paypal. They also check his billing address. Once again, unless he has assumed someone's identity Paypal knows who and where he is.
The only thing unverified means is you didn't let paypal pry around in your bank account. Paypal knows who and where their members are from jumpstreet. Being and buying from verified sellers doesn't seem to help many folks. Most (from the ones I personally know about) never get their money back if fraud is committed.
In the past month I have had about 10 bidders complain about a seller in one of the cats I list in. He has not sent their merchandise after months and he ignores their emails. He hasn't listed anything for the past few weeks, but he is still a registered user. He is also a verified paypal member. He has a pile of negatives. scattered throughout his ebay career and quite a few in ithe past 2 weeks, all for non-received goods. Most under $100.
The bidders all say that they have complained to ebay and paypal and have gotten no help. As I mentioned before he is still a registered user.
I still think that verification means nothing. If you pay by credit card initiate a chargeback if you are defrauded. Ebay also offers free insurance.
I think the guy was pretty stupid if he was trying to commit fraud. He must be a member of the apple dumpling gang.
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yisgood
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:11:53 AM
Grumpyebayer: I didn't "report" anyone. I just saw terms in his auctions that made no sense, sounded suspicious and told Damon to check it out. Paypal was not the one who NARUd him, ebay did. Since he has zero feedback and no one reported to me what happened (not do I expect them to), I can only speculate on what happened. I am guessing that it turned out that he used a stolen CC to open both his ebay account and his PP account. I hope I saved his foolish bidders from losing their money.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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pocono
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:19:39 AM
Shosh ?
I was only kidding with ya...
I hope that you didn't edit because you
thought I was bothered by your post.
IT WAS A JOKE! haha 
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grumpyebayer
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:40:14 AM
"I just saw terms in his auctions that made no sense, sounded suspicious and told Damon to check it out".
No matter that you did it formally or informally it is reporting.
If he used a stolen credit card then he would need to know the billing address of the person he stole it from. I am told that in only about 1/2 of a percent of the credit card fraud commited with stolen cards do the criminal know that info. This info comes from a boring seminar that I attended last fall, given by visa international.
"Paypal was not the one who NARUd him, ebay did".
I would think if the card were stolen Paypal would have given him the boot also. iT only takes one phone call and few minutes to find out if a card is stolen.
"I hope I saved his foolish bidders from losing their money".
Or you may have caused a legitimate seller some problems.
You called his bidders "foolish". Maybe they did their own research and decided that he was an acceptable risk. Maybe they knew they would not lose a penny if they used their credit cards to pay and the seller commited fraud.
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yisgood
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posted on December 14, 2000 09:52:32 AM
>>No matter that you did it formally or informally it is reporting. <<
First of all, you make it sound like "reporting" is a crime. Second, I didn't tell ebay, I told PP. As long as his account was valid, nothing would have happened. So I don't see what got your panties in a bunch. Unless you're one of those folks who minds his own business and ignores the person getting mugged down the block because you are afraid of "reporting."
>>If he used a stolen credit card then he would need to know the billing address of the person he stole it from.<<
I dont care what he would have needed to know. I dont know if he was using a stolen credit card. I did not make that determination.
>>"I hope I saved his foolish bidders from losing their money". Or you may have caused a legitimate seller some problems. <<
If he was a legitimate seller, he would not have been NARUd. What do you think happened? Paypal told ebay to NARU him because I sent them an email and ebay said "Oh, if yisgood sent you an email, we'd better NARU him."? I think my email made them check his account and having done so, they found a problem. Or maybe his being NARUd was a complete coincidence.
>>You called his bidders "foolish". Maybe they did their own research and decided that he was an acceptable risk. Maybe they knew they would not lose a penny if they used their credit cards to pay and the seller commited fraud.<<
First of all, he was not going to accept credit card payment. His account was not going to allow that, which is what made me suspicious. So his buyers would have paid from bank accounts and then have no charge back protection. Second, how do you research someone with 0 ratings, a hotmail account and an unverified PP account? That is about as annonymous as it gets.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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grumpyebayer
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posted on December 14, 2000 10:28:19 AM
"Unless you're one of those folks who minds his own business and ignores the person getting mugged down the block because you are afraid of "reporting."
IF I see a crime being committed I will gladly call the police or whoever is needed. In this case I had not noticed a crime.
"I dont care what he would have needed to know. I dont know if he was using a stolen credit card. I did not make that determination."
"I can only speculate on what happened. I am guessing that it turned out that he used a stolen CC to open both his ebay account and his PP account"
Yes, lots of speculation.
"If he was a legitimate seller, he would not have been NARUd".
WHAT!!!? Ebay has suspended lots of legitimate sellers and in some cases it has taken them some real hassles to get thier account back.
"First of all, he was not going to accept credit card payment. His account was not going to allow that, which is what made me suspicious"
I guess he isn't allowed to upgade like everyone else.
"So his buyers would have paid from bank accounts and then have no charge back protection. Second, how do you research someone with 0 ratings, a hotmail account and an unverified PP account? That is about as annonymous as it gets. "
I said the bidders may have done their own research. What that means is they may realize that being verified is no real protection and ebay offers insurance with a $25 deductable. Maybe they decided that losing $25 was an acceptable risk for the chance of getting a good camera. Rgardless of how they sent him payment, they would in some cases get all of their money back (from their credit card) or in another get some back using ebay's insurance.
No they don't have chargeback protection, but they can get an electronic check or transfer reversed by filling out an affadavit saying they were defrauded and giving what proof they have. Also most banks will not allow the company that you lodged the complaint against to withdraw anymore money form your account.
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