posted on December 13, 2000 10:59:07 PM new
So this latest new idea of Ebays...was it run by you? What did you say?
ANYTHING?
What sort of input do you have?
And why have you never started a chat board either here, or at Ebay boards to keep the rest of us updated on what you actually do for us?
One thing I notice ...most of you keep a low profile.
It would be nice to know someone is really in our corner and not just assisting Ebay with these wacky ideas.
posted on December 14, 2000 07:45:23 AM new
Thanks for that link. However, it did little good.
If Ebay chooses the members,then it sounds like a stacked deck to me.
Sworn to secrecy?
Thats special.
posted on December 14, 2000 07:50:13 AM new
Zeenza: I'm not a voices member. Your original post asked the question why voices members had never started a chat board. I think the link I posted and your post above provide the answer - hostility from non-voices members.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Dec 14, 2000 07:51 AM ]
posted on December 14, 2000 08:34:40 AM new
You think everyone who posts a comment that suggests a better system is hostile?
I am very sorry you feel that way.
posted on December 14, 2000 09:19:03 AM new
zeenza,
I doubt seriously that any voices group members will attempt to discuss this here or on any of the boards. Historically, it just hasn't worked out.
During my time as a voices member I tried on numerous occasions to discuss the voices groups and for various reasons (some of them my own shortcomings) I just wasn't able to do it very well. There is a lot of hostility toward eBay and it gets taken out on the voices group members. At least that's the way I see it.
I'm not in the voices program anymore. I resigned months ago. But I can tell you it's a worthwhile program and I'm glad to have had the opportunity to contribute.
If you have suggestions or ideas concerning the groups please send them to eBay. If you are interested in becoming a voices member, let eBay know. I don't know how the selection process works but you could ask eBay about that too.
posted on December 14, 2000 09:53:30 AM newThere is a lot of hostility toward eBay and it gets taken out on the voices group members.
I don't know- I think it is more likely scepticism than hostility. Every issue regarding eBay, their policies and the affects they have on users comes down to one thing- money.
And when it comes to questioning eBay (or the Voices members, for that matter) about those policies, most people are not comfortable with a response of "I can't tell you what we've talked about, but we're acting in your best interests".
posted on December 14, 2000 09:56:22 AM new
I know several people that have attended the Voices meetings, all of them good people, with good intentions. But IMHO these meetings are nothing more than a PR campaign, and a way for eBay to attempt to win over [brainwash] some of the more vocal critics of their site.
All of these people are still part of the Voices inner circle, and still "speak" with the PTB on a regular basis. Some of them on a "weekly" basis. To the best of my knowledge, none of these people were asked for input on the Watch feature, The Buy It Now feature, or the latest bozo of em all, the Pre Approved Bidders feature.
Another person I know was asked to attend the last Voices meeting in San Jose, unfortunately both her sister, and mother, passed away the week she was supposed to attend the meetings. She had to contact eBay & let them know to cancel the plane ticket etc & explained why she wouldn't be able to attend.
The pricks never even emailed her back.
Ya, like they give a rat's azz about their *community* members!
posted on December 14, 2000 11:02:07 AM new
I am very thankful for these boards at AW.
They provide us all with a safe haven. Of sorts.
When one looks at the larger picture...(that being our own sales and frustration with the ever constant changes) I wager anyone, even those most thoughtful, considerate, and easy going sellers would lose faith in what is being done.
And could 'appear' to be negative.
I simply QUESTIONED whether or not the Voice group is at all effective for SELLERS.
I always KNEW it was great for eBay.
posted on December 14, 2000 11:33:56 AM new
Ray ..... C'mon, you have no way to prove that. eBay does what eBay wants to do, end of story. But if you really believe that, and it makes you feel better, then that's just swell.
posted on December 14, 2000 11:57:01 AM newI can't prove it
Exactly
BTW Ray, now that you are no longer a member of the secret society, perhaps you can share with our fellow readers just what exactly the Voices group has done for sellers in the past 2 yrs? I mean something we can really sink our teeth into. Or is the oath of silence still in effect, even after you step down?
[ edited by reddeer on Dec 14, 2000 12:02 PM ]
posted on December 14, 2000 12:58:53 PM new
reddeer,
As I said, since I can't really prove anything, what would be the point of continuing? Anything I say could be disputed or questioned without end. Why should I even bother? I put in my 16 months and I found it very rewarding and beneficial to buyers, sellers and eBay.
Truthfully, I don't really care whether you or anyone else believes it or not.
The originator of this thread asked a question and I answered it. That's all. I don't have anything else to add. if you really care so much about the voices program, why don't you sign up? I'm sure your vast knowledge and keen insights would be greatly appreciated.
posted on December 14, 2000 01:47:40 PM new
Well I'm not sure I understand the question but I'll give it a shot.
What am I doing? I'm getting ready for Christmas, I'm composing music, I'm saving up for a Roland JV-80 dream synth, I buy and sell heavily on eBay, I'm active in my church, am trying to lose 10 more lbs. and am an active member of the Voices 1 program. That's what I am doing. I am a regular human being with a hectic life that really doesn't lend itself to being more visible on these boards and opening myself up for the hostility and attacks. I do not see myself as anyone's representative or "ambassador," I am not working "for" anybody and don't think I have any obligation beyond my participation in the group. I am simply an eBay user who provides opinions when asked, often quite vocally (not brainwashed here, thank you very much) as do my colleagues.
Tuesday night we had a teleconference regarding something eBay is planning for the future but to provide that general piece of information without going into specifics only seems to agitate folks on these boards. We chatted about some other things too such as how my sales are going and my analysis of my particular category (Vintage Jewelry), and had a good 2 hours of productive discussion.
We did not have any discussion within our own Voices group ahead of time about the Pre-Approved buyer feature, although different topics are presented to different Voices groups. It is today a topic of discussion via our Voices 1 e-mail link. We are told this is envisioned more for high-ticket items where sellers may have a desire to pre-approve bidders before adding them to the list. Some sellers have auctions that attract some goofy joke bids. I don't envision most sellers ever using this feature and the Announcement really isn't very clear about who might use this feature and why.
We did participate in discussions about BIN and other features ahead of time. That has been helpful to some sellers -- I personally like it as a seller. One of my chief complaints is that eBay is heavily geared toward the buyer, not the seller. There are pros and cons to many of eBay's ideas -- some of which never see the light of day.
posted on December 14, 2000 02:55:59 PM new
Thanks for the info, Lisa .. that's the most I've ever heard about/from a voices member.
What I'd like to know is how do voices members know if they really are speaking for the community? Is that their goal? How do they get input? Do they ask? No one's ever asked me anything .. anyone else?
I have a memory like a steel trap .. unfortunately it's rusted shut!
posted on December 14, 2000 09:01:07 PM new
Tuition, we don't always know if we are speaking "for the community," we often don't agree even among ourselves. The best we can do is use our common sense and rely on the years we've been buying and selling on eBay. I think most of the time, our reactions are a pretty good barometer about what eBay can expect from the community at large.
I get input from some e-mail lists I belong to in my particular specialty, but otherwise I speak for myself on more general eBay topics because I truly don't have a lot of time to hang out on the Boards. Sometimes an issue on the Boards will catch our attention, such as the Jeffdefender situation if you remember that -- and we can then be in eBay's face saying "what the hey!!??" and push for resolution.
Some Voices members have tried to go to AW to get input but unfortunately it tends to create a huge controversy. Their motives get questioned, the thread degenerates into a huge and unpleasant debate about the Voices program in general etc, so that's why many of us do keep a low profile.
posted on December 14, 2000 10:27:08 PM new
Voices = Divide and Conquer
Pick out those viewed as vocal and/or leaders. Invite them to ebaY, wine and dine them, show them what nice decent folk ebaY is made of, make the "voices" feel special, the select few in a sea of "others", give them their own personal contact at ebaY - so that when something comes up they call their contact at ebaY instead of making it public, a neat Machiavellian way to silence potential leaders, and keep the unwashed masses fragmented.
posted on December 14, 2000 11:04:50 PM new
Sour Grapes? Not for me Amy, I could have been one of the wined & dined, and chose not to join the circus in San Jose.
posted on December 15, 2000 01:34:24 AM new
Our voices group said we thought it would be a good idea for sellers to have access to a list of sellers who were willing to mentor or even help list auctions. There was no discussion about a third party or any software.
posted on December 15, 2000 05:01:58 AM new
One more post here, then I'm through with this thread.
I've said it before here at AW that there is some truth to what Rosalinda and others have said. No doubt (in my mind) SOME of what eBay has done with the voices groups, was politically motivated.
But that is obvious. Of course eBay would like to silence it's critics. What big business wouldn't and doesn't try? There's nothing new about that I've seen it before.
And whatever eBay's motives may have been originally, the fact is, the voices groups work. I'm not sure eBay really expected that.
A lot of good for everyone has come from the voices program. It's not simply devide and conquer. I realize this fact doesn't fit into the neat little pre-conceived idea pool, but that's too bad.
Since I'm no longer a member, it would be very easy for me to sit here and agree with the usual "slam it 'cause it can't be possible" mentality, but I won't because it's not true.
So, believe what you will but don't think that you KNOW what the voices program is all about until you've joined the program and actually done something more than simply bad-mouthing it.
posted on December 15, 2000 07:34:46 AM new
LISA
You wrote
"Some Voices members have tried to go to AW to get input but unfortunately it tends to create a huge controversy. Their motives get questioned, the thread degenerates into a huge and unpleasant debate about the Voices program in general etc, so that's why many of us do keep a low profile."
As 'spokepersons' for the 'greater cause', you are supposed to rise up to the occaision...NOT keep a low profile.
Controversy comes with leadership....it takes drive, talent, compassion and commitment to keep going.
IF you keep a low profile on MY behalf...I MUST request a new leader.
This coffee club known as Voices has become a disgrace. A private club. That hides away from controversy... and when they do come out they speak in whispers and innuendos.
This is my humble opinion. It is based on my ignorance...which unfortunatly is all you have given me to work with.
posted on December 15, 2000 10:54:34 AM new
Glenda - The article mentioned software for both the mentoring program and the reputation manager. Pursglove said that 15 to 20 Voices members were consulted about both programs.
As to the effect of Voices members or their being representative of all Ebay members, simply do the math.
Ebay has 6,000,000 registered users. Nothing scientific is used to select Voices members as a truly representative sample. With this large membership, a sample would have to be much larger and have completely different selection criteria to be useful to Ebay (or anyone else for that matter).
I know some of the Voices members - the ones I know were extremely critical of Ebay and expressed those criticisms often and loudly prior to becoming Voices members. Since becoming Voices members, they have nothing bad to say about Ebay, and don't like to hear others criticize the site.
Seems clear to me that Ebay has accomplished exactly what they wanted with these Voices group - to silence the loudest critics. Of course, they're thrown a bone ever now and then, asked their opinions, but I suspect their opinion is asked after Ebay has made their decision to implement whatever program they wish and Voices members have no effect on the outcome of that decision.
Ebay's decisions are made, as any corporate's decisions must be, based on what is best for the stockholders and the bottom line. Input from customers is dealt with when the negative responses become public and Ebay realizes the bottom line and/or stockholders might be affected by the bad publicity.
posted on December 15, 2000 11:16:39 AM new
Reddeer..I disagree. I do see it as a form of sour grapes.
If one is not invited to join a group then human nature is such that those not invited might very easily take a stand of "I didn't want to be in that anyway, it is too exclusive (or what ever the reason used is) and I wouldn't join it if they asked me"...this is sour grapes.
If one has made that type of a statement and then IS invited but declines the invitation, that person is perpetuating the "sour grapes" attitude. Subsequent negative statements about the program become valueless in my opinion.
IF a former detracter is invited and accepts the invitation and after being involved STILL is of the opinion that the program is useless or wrong THEN their opinion becomes more valid...they became involved and were able to judge from personal experience.
On a different note...I don't see the voices members as being any type of "representative" for me. they represent their own views, which may or may not jibe with my views.
