posted on December 14, 2000 03:45:26 PM new
I am soliciting opinions on how to handle this buyer of mine. I sold her a 1910 book (topic not really important), had a very complete description of the damage and condition, and she never asked a single ? before buying it. Here are emails so far on this deal in reverse order:
I didn't think anything could add to the heartache, but
I was obviously wrong. Apparently you want to have both
the book and the money so the whole thing can end. How
is it possible for you to think that after I got burned
like this I would agree to be taken to the cleaners
COMPLETELY and with no recourse??? Your "disclaimers" as
to "same condition I sent it" are subtle but obviously
forebode the clear intention. This does not bode well at
all for the direction this is taking. But I assure you I
will not let ANYONE do this to me!!
> Hello XXX: I hope I have your name correct. I thought I described the
> book well enough to avert this problem, and I always encourage questions
> before you bid. I am sorry to hear of your non-approval of the book. If
> you send it back to me, I will refund your money plus shipping both ways.
> As you can see by my stellar feedback on ebay (over 900 positives) I care
> about my customers. As soon as I recieve the book in the same condition I
> sent it in, I will issue you a 100% refund, you have my word as my
> customer's satisfaction is my #1 goal on ebay. Please ship the book back to
> me and a check will be sent the day I recieve it, and I am sure you
> understand that no refund can be issued w/o the book in my hands. Thanks
> and please accept my apologies, (if you send it Priority 3 day air, you
> will get your refund quicker)
Sincerely, XXX XXXXXXX
> >Dear Sir:
> >
> >After an anticipation-filled week of watching the mail
> >box I received the book today. My intention was to give
> >this book as a Christmas present to my husband who has
> >been studying this subject matter for over 40 years.
> >This was supposed to be the only gift since our money
> >has to go to the groceries and medicines. I find it
> >absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to describe the feeling when I saw
> >how the book has NINE MISSING PAGES! That's N-I-N-E,
> >completely missing. As soon a I opened the book the
> >binding cracked right down the middle as well. Like I
> >say, suffice it to say that my feelings cannot be
> >described. My money is gone. I can tell you that I went
> >into this trusting and believing. Obviously I am to come
> >out of this heart-broken and broke. One question only:
> >WHY DO THIS TO SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU?
Should I just send the $35.00 refund w/o ever getting the book back to keep her happy? Have any of you sellers done this, not really knowing if you are being scammed or not? Any help on this dilemma is much appreciated. By the way, I have 914 feedback w/ only 2 retaliatory negs. Thanks much!
posted on December 14, 2000 04:09:09 PM new
I think she's referring to the fact that she cracked the binding when she opened the book so it is not in the condition it was sent anymore. If you are willing to refund her money knowing the book is not in the shape you sent it fine. You still should have the book in your posession before you make any refund. All this could be avoided if people would only read the item description.
posted on December 14, 2000 04:11:40 PM new
Tough call!....In HER eyes, she is right, while in YOUR eyes, you are right...The problem: only one can be right...
Of course, if you have photos of the exact condition in which book left, send her those first...then, for once, you might consider sending her a refund and wish them both a Merry Xmas...What could she say to THAT?...Once in a while, it might take that "extra little step"....
posted on December 14, 2000 04:20:07 PM new
Write the buyer back asking for a picture of the damage they are decribeing.
As they are stateing this it nearly sound as if you will be getting a book back that is in two peices and may or may not be yours.
I Would never refund in a case like this with out getting the Item back frist in some cases of non repairable damage where I wouldnt be able to resell I would require a picture of the Item damage and package shipping label visable if I can see this is my Item I will refund with out return.
thing is this could well be a switch your book with a few missing pages for a mess with binding all in peices. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on December 14, 2000 04:21:05 PM new
Instinct tells me this is a scam, vendosr1.
How was the book you sent? Did it have missing pages and spine damage, as she asserts? If not, then it would appear that "Granny" has figured out, as many others have, how easy it is to get some sellers to cave in at the mere thought of neg FB.
If the book did possess the damage she claims (and your description didn't mention it), then I still wouldn't return her money until first receiving the merchandise. Of course, that's your call.
BTW, your response was both professional and generous. This buyer has no basis to claim you're attempting to defraud her.
posted on December 14, 2000 04:23:00 PM new
yup I was going to ad in my last post this buyer could just be looking to get some of there bid back and all the drama is to make you feel awfull about her troubles. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on December 14, 2000 04:41:16 PM new
Thanks much for the input so far. I thank Julesy and Shoshanah (I have read, respected, and enjoyed your posts for a LONG time). At first I felt pretty bad, and almost turned myself in to my local authorities for immediate jail time! But now I am thinking clearer, still hesitant to simply spread Good Cheer w/ my $35 check w/ no book in hand. I opened and looked carefully at the 800 page book, the spine was stiff, but it did not crack when I handled it, and the pages appeared crisp and in such good shape my feeling was it was hardly EVER looked at or handled. All the parchment divider pages were mint shape. Here is an email I got from a co-seller/friend you guys may get a chuckle out of:
Hi XXXX,
Sorry I didn't get back sooner. I've been on the phone all day dealing with
water board (read bored) issues for tonite's meeting. WOW!! You renegade,
disgusting, degenerate, unfeeling ROGUE!! How could you possibly defraud
this poor elderley woman, shamelessly taking her life savings and medicine
money, only to further line your pockets with BLOOD MONEY! Shame on you!
And just think of the cost of her internet and computer fees!! She won't be
able to bid on ANYTHING next week thanks to your unabashed GREED!! I'm only
seconds away from calling the County Sheriff so you can be where you and
your ilk belong---IN JAIL.
Now... what was the question? Oh. I don't envy that sale. Unbelievable!
I think your response was good. Get her money back to her as soon as you
can and inform her that it was a huge mistake on your part for not counting
every page to make sure they were all there. Also inform her that
it was the only auction you've ever had on ebay and you have too much time
on your hands and really should have gone over the book with a microscope
but you were just too darn lazy and besides if you told the truth you
wouldn't get any bids, hence her medicine money. When we screw up we go
into "sychophant mode" with profuse apologies and, like you did, offer to
pay back return postage etc. I think your response was right on the money
but I would keep an eye on this one to make sure you don't get neged. Do
whatever it takes to keep this one happy. In fact send her money back and
hope you get the book back. Where she is hung up is on your "in the same
condition" phrase. She thinks that now that it's not in the same condition
(broken spine, etc) you will not send her money back. Make it clear to her
that you will accept the book in it's current condition and give her the
refund. Then apologize some more.
Let us know what happens, or if this advise is good enough to get her out of
your life.
What a drag.
Good Luck
XXXX
I am leaning to playing Santa and sending a check off to fit the season, but not 100% yet. Sounds good to email her again, saying I will take the book back in ANY condition (even w/ the damage she inflicted on the spine), and then send refund upon reception of said book. Keep the advice coming, I am still on the fence w/ this one.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:03:42 PM new
well, you could tell the woman that you'd be happy to return the money just as soon as you get the item back and verify that it has the invisible owner's mark you put in it, no matter the condition. (Doesn't matter that you didn't put a mark in, the point is that you might have.) That would solve the substitute issue.
El
"The customer may not always be right, but she is always the customer."
posted on December 14, 2000 05:09:40 PM new
Use an escrow service. Point out that the cracked spine would be an acceptable part of the condition. You just want to make sure the book has not been completely trashed.
You make payment to the service. She sends the book. You receive it and release payment to her. They send her a check.
Although I suspect that she is probably sincere here and not trying to scam you, if she will not accept the escrow solution, she is not being reasonable.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:24:33 PM newvendosr1...Should you decide to go ahead with Playing Santa, you might also want to block her from further biddings on your listings...Not only because you might not want her to, but also to prevent her from bidding, THEN leaving NEGS...
You might write her a letter (after all is settled), asking her respectfully to not bid on your auctions, and send a CC to Safeharbor. Safeharbor will ask you to be sure to give them the Auction Number, should she bid again...They do NARU USERS FOR THAT...of course, that would only apply in the worst case scenario
********************
posted on December 14, 2000 05:26:52 PM new
Vendosr1,
What a bummer! Out of curiosity, what does her feedback look like?
I would email her and tell her that you are aware that the spine will be cracked because she told you this. It sounds like she thinks you won't refund her money because obviously the spine wasn't cracked until she opened it and will, therefore, not be in the same condition. I would again point out that your feedback rating proves that you have never ripped anyone off.
Your offer to refund and pay shipping both ways is very generous. Did your auction mention that there were pages missing? I can see her side, especially if she is a newbie and not accustomed to how the refund thing works and how to evaluate the seller based upon feedback. It sounds like you are making every effort to do the right thing.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:36:44 PM new
I have only one question, how did she know there were 9 pages missing???? I would think that she or they would have to read it to know it had that many pages missing. If the book was not in the best shape to start off with, I feel they are done with it and don't feel it is worth putting with the rest of there fine books on the shelf. Lets face it, the book is 90 years old. What does her feedback look like. What else has she been buying other than your book. That might tell you more about this buyer.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:41:01 PM new
I'd go with Eleanor's suggestion and let her know that she will receive the promised refund, once you've inspected the item and found your mark. The fact that she IS such a drama queen and was so offended by your "implication" sets off alarm bells for me. Someone who was looking for a legitimate refund would simply pack up the book and send it back. I've had to use the "merchandise is marked" claim once....funny thing, but the buyer suddenly decided that he liked the item so much, he'd keep it anyway.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:45:11 PM newLadyGambler This bidder had a 0 feedback, so it was her first buy. That is why I am trying to bend over backwards to help her out w/ all the shipping so she feels she is out no $. She probably has not even looked at my feedback or didn't know what the # by my name was even for. The book could have had the 9 pages gone, and being over 800 I did not count every page, in part because it was in such good shape I had no reason to suspect this (I did not, of course, put the missing page info in the desc. w/o knowing about it).
Ebay's Rosetta Stone is trust, and I see her fear of shipping it back to a total anonymous stranger, never to see her money again. She may be a very mistrustful person in everyday dealings from being burned on other retail purchases (just trying to give her the benefit of the doubt). I may just email tonight w/ the emphasis on "I will take the book back in its present spine cracked condition, no questions asked, but simply cannot refund any monies w/o the book in hand". I may also add that I had the bid up to $70 and that guy retracted at last minute w/ the excuse of "imminent overseas duty, cannot pay". Then again, $35 is not that much money, and how can she ever doubt my integrity w/ book and check in hand? Of course she could be cackling to her friends how she got this rare book on ebay for free! But at least I would not be negged and she would be happy (in whatever misguided form that may be). I am still pondering.......uuuuuhhhhhmmmmmmmmm?
posted on December 14, 2000 06:05:13 PM new
I think "Good Cheer" refunds and freebies are admirable and good business sense, but should be saved for folks who approach the situation in an honest, unemotional way.
For instance, I had a buyer recently, in Japan, who purchased something, and didn't read a small detail in the ad which mentioned a part of the item as being gunmetal instead of a different material. They emailed me for clarification, I pointed out the relevant info in the ad, and they apologized and agreed to keep the purchase. Because they were so gracious I decided to send an extra part, in the material they originally thought it was, free of charge. That is the type of situation that calls for a goodwill gesture, IMO.
Not this lady. She sounds like the type who if she get's away with it once, she will try it again, with other unsuspecting sellers.
posted on December 14, 2000 06:10:18 PM new
Uhhhhhhh....this deal stinks more all the time. Did you check out the bidding histories of your previous high bidder and this "newbie"? Sounds like possible bid shielding, to me. I would certainly be very skeptical about handing out any Christmas cheer to this outfit. Sounds like they might be gathering it up on their own.
posted on December 14, 2000 06:16:07 PM new
I now ask this question, if this buyer has 0 feedback, is she really a new buyer, or a old one with a new account?? I have been told, this can be done. Is there any way to check??
posted on December 14, 2000 06:27:15 PM new
I really have to agree that this sounds like a scam. If the high bider backed out on $70.00 and she paid $35.00 for it, that is a good deal and a very long jump from $70.00. I find it hard to belive this buyer is having a tough time paying for Groceries and Medicines and buying a book on e-bay. It just don't sound right!!!!
posted on December 14, 2000 06:44:47 PM new
If the book is not returned in the condition you shipped it in, DO NOT REFUND! 2-way shipping and full purchase is a generous offer.
Does Sears let you keep the merchandise and get your money back? Heck no! They make you hand over the goods.
What you want to prevent is a switch where they send back a diferent book in worse condition. Was the book you sold missing 9 pages? Were there any clearly identifiable opictures of the damage it had?
The cracked binding can happen at any time to an old book ... the glue fails. It's usually when an over-eager reader smashes the book flat on a table to look at it, not from normal handling.
posted on December 14, 2000 06:44:59 PM new
You sound like a wonderful person, as honorable and fair as they come. Stick to your guns - her dissertation ad nauseum on her lifestyle and expenditures smells like a life-size rat.
Di
On a scale of 1 to 10...we'd all weigh a lot less!
posted on December 14, 2000 09:13:49 PM new
I had almost the same problem with a book I sold the week before Thanksgiving. Sold a new, spiral bound book and received an email from the buyer saying she thought I might have missed it, but there were 35 pages missing from a 188 page book. I think I might have noticed, especially since I was the original owner.
Told the buyer to return it and I would refund bid + shipping both ways. Still waiting. Yours sounds like a scam. Tell her to send it via I-escrow if she's worried you'll abscond with the money. I-escrow's fee is $2.50 for $35.00. Bet she never sends it!
posted on December 14, 2000 09:23:55 PM new
vendosr1:
Just a sec.! You said: "But at least I would not be negged and she would be happy."
You might want to ponder that she could/might leave you negative feedback, even if you refunded the money and let her keep the book! Imagine how ill that would make you feel - it would me!
I suggest refunding the book after inspecting it. Nothing more, nothing less...
posted on December 14, 2000 09:37:56 PM new
A few things...
This book is 800 pages, and they "found" 9 missing? Nice quick work!!!
The buyer states how much the hubby has researched this stuff, but they(she) doesn't know how to open an old book without breaking the binding? with SO much experience, they should KNOW old books are fragile!!!
You are taking a god approach, and PLEASE don't cave to this scamming scumbag!!!!
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on December 14, 2000 09:55:17 PM new
Call me cynical (please do) but this doesn't sound like the same book AT ALL. Forget all the goop about the poor husband and his medicine. Inspect the book first. Even with the damage to the spine, if nine pages are missing there's a good chance the book she retuns will not be in the same overall good condition. You should be able to tell.
Even if her story is true (which I doubt), she should have taken greater care with a book published in 1910.
I would approach this one with caution. I definitely would NOT send her money without inspecting the book first.
posted on December 15, 2000 02:55:22 AM new
I agree, this whole deal smells really fishy. You would not even notice 9 pages out of 800 unless they were very important pages, such as specific illustrations (MHO). The grocery and medicine whining sounds like the old "I live on a fixed income" story, who doesn't? I would not refund unless the book was sent back.
posted on December 15, 2000 03:13:47 AM new
Let me add just a little more cynicism here.
Say she agrees to return the book and it "gets lost in the mail". You might consider asking her to get DC so at least there is a tracking number to verify it was sent.
posted on December 15, 2000 04:06:13 AM new
This person reminds me of my shoe guy. About a year ago, I sold a man some brand new, in the box Birkenstocks. We offered a full refund on the purchase price only because shoes are a hard-to-fit item. All we asked was that the items be returned in the same condition as we sent them. We do mark every one of our items with an invisible ink stamp. This refund offer was stated in our ad and on an information sheet we shipped with each pair of shoes.
This guy sees my auction for one style/size of Birkenstocks and then e-mails me to see if I have his size in that style. I have one and I have another one that is similar, but at the time I thought they were the same. He asks to make a deal offline but he may not be able to pay until 45 days from now because of his medical bills and other living expenses.
He finally says one of his children has agreed to pay for the shoes. He sends me a money order and I ship the shoes via UPS. Tracking shows me exactly when they were delivered.
A full four weeks later, I receive an e-mail from him stating that his wife opened the box the day before (yep, I always leave my packages unopened for a month) and he was so disappointed that the 2nd pair of shoes was not exactly the same as the first. I simply repeated the return policy in my e-mail response. His response back to me accused me of all sorts of things but revealed that he had, indeed, worn the shoes for several days. It was at this point that I learned the art of not responding, except to make one final offer of the original return policy. Because it was an off-line transaction, he was unable to leave me any feedback.
As hard up as he was for money, he also managed to buy some $50+ fishing lures, $50+ salt and pepper shakers and a neon sign during this same time period.
I will note that I had three pair of shoes returned to me because they did not fit and not one questioned my return policy.
Check your bidder and see what other items they may have won. Check with any other sellers to see if they have had any problems.
My mother is very good at the poor-mouthing game and I have had years of practice in tuning out this stuff about medical costs, electric bills, etc. These comments by my mother are almost aways followed by my father telling me about the motor home, television, shoe inventory, etc. that he just bought.
posted on December 15, 2000 06:06:04 AM new
I have learned the hard way and I wouldn't refund until the item is in hand. I shipped a glass item and the lady wrote me many emails feigning similar quotes as your customer including that I had sold it broken. When I told her to take it to the p.o. and she wouldn't, I should have gotten the clue. I refunded before I received the bowl and when I got it, she had done the switch-a-roo on me. I was out the cost of the bowl and shipping both ways and the bowl is useless. Needless to say I have learned a lesson. Hopefully someone else can learn from my mistakes.
