posted on December 15, 2000 01:24:47 PM new
SPITTING NAILS!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so angry and frustrated at the Post Office right now that I'm not sure I can even make this sound coherant.
THEIR INSURANCE IS A FARCE!
Sold somes franciscan crystal goblets for $61.00. Buyer did not insure so I did for $50.00.
They arrived SMASHED, and I pack to survive an atomic bomb.
She started the claim on her end, sent the forms and a letter from the postmistress to confirm the damage.
OK....so far so good. I take the claim with the EOA notice from e-Bay to the P.O. to show what was paid for them.
NO...not good enough.
They want:
1.) proof of payment.
2.) signed written statement of where and when I purchased them and what I paid(I told them it was none of there damn business) What the hell does that have to do with them breaking the glasses anyway?
3.) Proof of value(such as book value) like, ya right, I'm going to go and pay $40.00 for a book to show them the value.
NO WHERE and I mean NO WHERE does it say on your little receipt that all these requirements have to be met before a claim is made.
This woman I tried to collect my claim from all but said that I was trying to defraud.
Oh sure....I'm claiming $50.00 on an item that was purchased for $61.00, and I'm trying to pull a fast one?
I made it very clear that in the future anything requirering insurance will be sent UPS!
ARGGGGGGGGG
Thanks for letting me vent!
Now I get to go to work....nobody better give me any grief either!
.
DOUBLE BAD WILD HAIR DAY!
edited for packer by packer!!
.
Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on December 15, 2000 01:38:12 PM new
"Proof of value(such as book value) like, ya right, I'm going to go and pay $40.00 for a book to show them the value."
Tell them to use the same book that they use when they decide on how much tax and duty you have to pay if the item is shipped across the border
posted on December 15, 2000 01:42:26 PM new
Packer - Sorry to hear of your problem. I've been there and lost the same battle. I ended up getting less than half of the amount I should have on a claim that I filed. It was a golf club which retailed for $275.00. I sold it at half price and the Potal insurance adjuster ended up paying me $75.00. A total scam. I told the adjuster to find me as many of these golf clubs at the $75.00 price that he gave me and that I would buy each and every one.
I now self-insure all packages. Buyers are quotated a fee for Priority mail shipment of their package. In the amount quoted is insurance in the same amount the Post office charges. If anything gets lost or broken, I replace or refund the purchase right away. If I get a perfect delivery, the funds go into the kitty. I'm able to provide a quick resolution to any delivery problem that my cusotmers encounter (Post office claims take months) and I believe I've actually collected a bit more than I've paid out. Everyone wins....
posted on December 15, 2000 01:45:06 PM new
UPIC is excellent in paying claims. Shortly after I started using UPIC I had two claims within the same week for broken laserdiscs. I was advised that I could reimburse my customers as soon as I received the signed letters from them describing the damages and verifying that the item was unrepairable. I could then submit the claim to UPIC and they would reimburse me. Everything worked as they said it would. I was very satisfied with UPIC's handling of the matter.
posted on December 15, 2000 01:45:08 PM new
I would also try another Post Office Branch, if I were you. When I had an insurance claim, all I needed was my eBay Ended Auction Page...that was it...They were very nice (of course, I live in a small Amish town and they know me very well....but that really shouldn't make any difference). Good luck...it really sounds like the lady was a B%@#*!!!!
posted on December 15, 2000 02:59:59 PM new
I just checked out U-Pic, but I saw no mention of 1st class or Book Rate insurance. Does anybody know if they insure these methods of shipping?
posted on December 15, 2000 04:47:52 PM new
Packer I have a book that shows the value of Franciscan prices. Would it help to scan and email you the page and the cover of the book to show book value. Post another reply and I will be glad to email information.
posted on December 15, 2000 05:09:50 PM new
Packer--Do NOT walk away in frustration! That's what they want! Stay on them. Do not take no for an answer and ask for that womans supervisor. Then insist the supervisor call Washington, and that you will WAIT while they do it, and that you want to talk too. Do NOT back down! When you start insisting on them calling Washington, they won't do it cause it will get there (ahem)in a wringer. They WILL settle with you just to get rid of you. Sorry it has to be this way, but it seems to be the only way that works.
posted on December 15, 2000 08:17:59 PM new
Yes, UPIC insures any form of postal delivery, and UPS as well (but only for the excess over the first $100, which is automatically covered by UPS via your fee).
I just recently had the same type of glass breakage (as a buyer), and had no problem at all collecting on the USPS insurance. I presented my EOA and the insurance slip, the clerk called the insurance lady over, she signed off on the claim, and I got my money right there on the spot. I think you need to visit another post office, if there is one anywhere nearby. You should not be having this sort of stupid problem!
posted on December 15, 2000 08:31:09 PM new
Am I missing something here?
What does "book value" have to do with the claim? You don't insure items for book value, you insure them for the price paid. Some items sell for more than book value, some for less. An item is "worth" what it sold for.
If you don't mind me asking, how come you let this bidder decline insurance on such a fragile shipment?
I also don't understand why you are running around to Post Offices? All you had to do was sign the claim form and send it back to the delivering Post Office. The package was not returned to you, was it?
That's the way I see it, unless I'm missing something vital...
posted on December 15, 2000 08:37:22 PM new
Also, what you paid for an item to resell is irrelevant. You could have paid zero for it, it still has value. Like I said above the value is what it sells for. "Proof" of value would be a copy of the canceled check or money order, or confirmation eMail from a payment service.
posted on December 15, 2000 08:59:11 PM new
Hi Packer,
I received a piece of glass broken and the seller mailed me a check out of his own pocket and then filed the claim for to collect. He had much the same problem as you did. They wanted a picture of the item and it's value or a statement from an antique dealer.
He didn't even know what kind of glass it was so I copied picture and price guide value which just happened to be worth $15.00-$20.00 more than I paid for it. Anyway I sent him the scan and he took to his post office and they paid right away. They also paid the value not the price I paid. Since the seller paid me my money he actually made money but that was fine with me and I was glad to do it because he sent me a check without even seeing the glass. Just took my word for it. I think I paid $15.00 for it and he got somewhere in the neighborhood of $30-$35 for it.
I was going to suggest you ask someone if they had a book on that particular glass and get them to scan not only the picture but the price guide value.
edited to add: Some one ^^ asked why the blue book value. According to our postmistress a claim can either be paid for what you paid for it OR if the person can show value the claim can be paid for what it is worth.
Did I also mention we have a very nice postmistress?
I have heard so many different stories about what and how they pay for it that I am beginning to believe they all have different regs to go by.
posted on December 15, 2000 09:07:47 PM new
Anyone else care to chime in on this one? I cannot belive the PO is paying "Book Value" for claims, vs. what I call actual value - what the item sold for.
Makes no sense to me. How could book value be determined on a smashed item anyway? Book value is based upon graded condition, wear, etc...
posted on December 15, 2000 09:26:08 PM new
I looked at the USPS web site. [Evidence of value 2.6]
If you DO NOT have a sales reciept or invoice, they may accept a statement of value from a "reputable dealer" or a page from a book or catalog.
So, I guess if widget "A" sold on eBay for $10. But had a book value of $25. Arrived broken. One could file an claim against book value, if you could convince them [PO] you had no invoice or reciept. Edited to say, that I'd consider this insurance fraud.
posted on December 15, 2000 10:15:51 PM new
If you read their site
http://www.u-pic.com/upic_order_coveragepolicy.asp
it appears as though U-PIC exclude payment for goods which bear descriptive labels or packaging which identify the nature of the goods.
Does that mean that if a parcel is labelled with a sticker identifying it's 'nature' as 'FRAGILE', U-PIC will not pay up? OR what if you describe an item on a customs form for export and attach it to the parcel?
posted on December 16, 2000 05:28:27 AM new
Last year I had to file an insurance claim. It was on a book (you can insure a book rate item) that after 30 days still had not arrived. I took that little green slip to the PO. The clerk told me that I needed a receipt to show what was paid so I went home and wrote one up, brought it back with the slip, the clerk filled out the necessary paperwork which was mailed to the buyer. The buyer signed it and mailed it back to which I got the money and sent it to buyer (obviously this could have been handled much differently if I had mailed the buyer the green slip for him to do at his PO but being my first, the bidder's first and my PO clerk's first insurance claim, we did it the long way!).
The book arrived shortly after the buyer got the insurance money. He immediately returned the money to me and I took it back to the PO. I never had to take any photos of the book or what it was "worth" or anything like that. I think the post office clerks make their own rules. I KNOW a book I mailed yesterday was well within the weight for first class but the clerk lady told me that it HAD to be sent priority. I told her I would send it book rate and she got snippy with me. You think she worked on commission!
posted on December 16, 2000 06:24:21 AM new
Packer, I totally agree with heygrape. You need to take this higher up. They can't just refuse reimbursement for insured items based upon some subjective criteria that they made up that day. Also, I enclose a signed receipt for every item I sell. This should be ALL that is necessary to claim reimbursement. I have on occaision, taken a photo copy of a "book value" page along with a photo copy of the relevant book cover to establish value on claims I have submitted when I haven't received a receipt with the item, and that has worked fine too. What I can't understand from reading similar threads about PO insurance reimbursement, is how the Post Office gets away with completely different standards and criteria for reimbursing claims. Surely there has to be a "policy manual" somewhere in each Post Office that covers how to process a claim. At my Post Office, I've never had trouble submitting a claim, but it is never paid on the spot, I always wait two weeks or more for a check to arrive. Yet I've read here that some Post Offices will pay out a claim for $50 or less right on site. I've had to wait for a check for as low as $10. But if I were in your situation, I'd scream bloody murder until someone listened. After all, you PAID for the insurance, and you must be reimbursed.
posted on December 16, 2000 06:36:43 AM new
For an insurance claim to be paid without hassles, you need to supply an invoice or receipt from a "reputable" dealer or company.
This could be where your problems are arising. A copy of an Ebay auction could be any individual selling an item, and does not qualify as a receipt from a "reputable" dealer.
If you are a business by law, and have all the required licenses including a "business" name, you should provide a separate invoice with each shipment. If this is done, you will then become the "reputable" dealer as required. If you are selling as Jane Doe, the Post Office can require you to find a business or reference book to backup your claim of value.
Examples:
If I buy a vase from "Chicago Antiques" for $35 and it arrives damaged, I can file a claim with my receipt that contains their logo and company name. The claim will be paid in full without question.
If I buy the same vase from user bunny27 on Ebay and only receive a copy of the auction page or email as my receipt, the post office assumes that it was a person to person sale and requires a third party valuation prior to payment of the claim and will only pay the amount of purchase or determined value (whichever is lower)regardless of how much insurance was purchased.
posted on December 16, 2000 07:02:32 AM new
Hi Morgantown,
I can't tell you why the post office told my seller what they did and I can only tell you he paid me immediately for what I paid for the auction.
I only helped him with the page copied and the price guide copied or scanned and he submitted it and he sent me a letter thanking me for my help.
I was disappointed on the fact that it arrived broken because I bought the piece way under value but I figure that's the way it goes but I didn't begrudge the seller for getting the extra money because that was what the PO asked for and I don't think he was either. He just complied and said without my help he would have gotten zip.
I also used a copied page of a auction that closed with my name on it once for proof of purchase on a broken piece of glass and the postmistress paid that amount.
I was unfortunate to have had about 4 pieces in a row broken. It was disappointing and the postmistress and our mailman were very helpful in assisting.
posted on December 16, 2000 10:15:57 AM new
Hi Everyone,
Lots of GREAT responses.
We are in the middle of a hell of a BLIZZARD, so I'll get this response done before we lose our power again.
paws4GOD,
Does it show Tiffin - Franciscan Cabaret Sherbert Goblets PINK in color?
When the buyer informed me that the glasses were smashed, I talk to "Denny" my Postmaster(30 year veteran) in our small town of 500 and he said she had to start the claim on her end since she had the damaged goods. Also I wanted the claim paid to ME. So I get the forms with her part filled out and a note from the postmistress stating the glasses were indeed broke and if there were any questions to call her. All I was suppost to do is sign the form and collect my money.
So I take it to Denny and he didn't want to take care of the claim because he wasn't sure how(what a turkey, after 30 years with them and he DON'T KNOW HOW!). So he sent me to town 6 miles away to make the claim at the NEW Distributing Center and thats where all the claims go anyway.
"Jane" the claims person, has kept all the forms and information. I was so frustrated will all the "bull" she was giving me I left there and went right back to Denny and said "FIX THIS".
He talks to Jane and sides with her, and spouts "its government regulations". "YA GOTTA GO BY THE BOOK" I say screw the book. And since when did the P.O. become part of the "govenment".(I'm told time and again that they are independent of the government). He knows me well enough that he knows what I'm telling him is the truth and I'm not trying to "pull something". I mail 50+ packages a week out of there, plus I've even done some selling for him.
Oh No, this is not OVER, I work for "said" Post Office and Denny(I'm a lowly PMR), I have the hot line number to the Post Master General. That will be my next call.
If I have to go over their heads on this I will, its the principal of the thing.
Their hoping(with all the govenment rules) I'll just give up but I'm not going to because when I received the papers from the buyer and everything looked like a go for getting my money, I sent her the last 3 goblets I had to replace the broken ones.
There logic for wanting the "value" as in book value totally escapes me. And to sign a written statement of where/when/how much is totally out of the question.
Oh boy, re-reading this, it looks like I'm still ranting.
For those of you saying that they accept EOA notices as proof, I know that UPS accepts them as proof.
I had to make one claim with them, and I had NO problem what so ever getting the money back AND they reimberse postage.
I think the P.O. should reimberse postage. They didn't follow through with the service we paid for so why should we be out that money?
If the policy is to show proof of value of an item then for us that sell "old" collectables is just throwing money to the wind by insuring it.
How can you put a value on a 100 year old quilt that grandma made. To me it would be priceless, to you it may be worth a couple of hundred bucks. Where in the heck do you look for a book value on something like that? To me the true value is what someone is willing to pay you for it.
As far as taking it to an antique dealer....what do they "really" know. Their just pulling figures out of the air, I suppose if it sounds good you could go with that.
The P.O. seems pretty gullable in that respect.
Well, thanks everyone for your wounderful thoughts and responses.
I will be looking into UPIC as an option.
.
edited for packer by packer!!
.
Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on December 16, 2000 10:43:53 AM new
If you have any size of library locally they will have a section of books in reference about antiques and collectables. Some libraries will even fax or e-mail a page to you if you need it on a specific item.
Sometimes it is just easier to give them what they ask for than invoking the principle of the thing. If we were going 100% on principles there would not be enough lampposts to hang all these government employees from. Even with the recent election
do you really have the energy for a real revolution?
posted on December 16, 2000 10:50:49 AM new
I spent over 5,000.00 with the Post office shipping in 1999. Then they refused to pay in 3 separate claims which totaled over 300.00. All insured and all well packed. So, instead of continuing to hassle with them I called UPS. I LOVE THEM!!!! They pick up everyday for 7.00 a week, I rent a printer from them for 2.00 a week and all my postage is done on the internet and in their software. I simply put in the specifics and a label comes out and they pick it up! Had 2 insurance claims, the customer called them, they picked up the package, reviewed the contents, sent us the paperwork, we signed and had a check all in less then 2 weeks. They're shipping costs for heavier packages are MUCH LESS then the post office. So. NO MORE POST OFFICE! I guess that they don't care that they lost my 5,000.00 and my business partners 7,000.00. And the time we have both saved waiting in lines around here is amazing, a full 16 hours a week between the two of us. I didn't sell at all last year mid November to December because of the waiting in line. Not a problem this year! And, UPS considers 40 mailings a month a significant commercial account.
posted on December 16, 2000 11:07:31 AM new
"I think the P.O. should reimberse postage. They didn't follow through with the service we paid for so why should we be out that money?"
They Do. You just have to stand your ground and insist, and NOT back down.
