posted on December 19, 2000 06:43:22 AM
Well, the eBay SafeHarbour 'bots have pushed me to the edge.
Last week I listed the entire collection of a cult tv science fiction series. My auction included the commerically released two min-series tape collections of this series, and the complete Columbia House re-tv Collector's Series for the tv series that followed the mini-series.
My auction was for the ORIGINAL studio produced tapes (total of 15 tapes) ... NOT copies.
After eBay ended my auction citing copyright infringement, I notified them that there were at least two other sellers selling ILLEGAL COPIES of the same series that I listed, only their listings included the entire series on two and three tapes. Very obviously copies, and EP copies to boot. You cannot fit 19 hours of tv programming on 2 tapes!!
eBay SafHarbour (Yuri and Ivan) both told me that they have taken "appropriate action" on these other auctions ... which was nothing. One of these auction listings stated that the seller received the 2-tape set from a person in Montreal (who has secured the series in French and no longer wanted the English dubs). That 2-tape set sold for around $60.00! The funny thing is ... that seller has sold this same set of tapes at least 3 times in the past! btw, his auctions are all "private" ... wonder why
The other seller (from Canada, I am ashamed to admit), has sold her 3-tape set a few times, and has a current listing again for the same tapes.
Yet, eBay still refuses to take action.
Bottom line?
1. They end my auction for store purchased, original tapes and do not provide a reason.
2. They knowingly allow at least two other auctions for the same material, ILLEGALLY COPIED FROM THE MASTER TAPES to proceed unmolested.
3. Columbia House is still selling the televised episodes as part of their re-tv collection (the tapes that I took 10 months and $300.00 to collect).
4. Both mini-series are still being sold at Walmart and every other store that sells video tapes.
5. eBay and their policies are allowing at least 2 members to undercut the copyright holder (Columbia House) with garbage copies.
6. Buyers, who are paying for these copies thinking they are getting originals are getting ripped off and there is nothing they can do about it.
7. eBay is interfering with my right to resell my original collection of tapes and damaging my reputation by ending my auctions without just cause or explanation.
I have sent an email to SafeHarbour (again) this morning with a cc to the MPAA hotline. Maybe I'll get a reward from the MPAA for turning in eBay and their bandit members
posted on December 19, 2000 06:58:10 AM
May I suggest Yahoo! Auctions?
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Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
I went through almost the exact same thing with ebay.
The only ones that ebay protects, are the criminals, frauds, and scammers.
Want to end your competition? Just send an email to ebay that your competitor is violating a rule.
The morons that work at ebay end auctions without even checking out what you say to be true, and give the seller no chance of rebuttle before ebay cast's them into financial ruins by cancelling their auctions.
I will dance in the streets the day that these illiterate, moronic, assinine, juvenile, pimply faced losers known as ebay staff are all cast into the unemployment pool. (which aint far off!)
posted on December 19, 2000 07:15:32 AM
labbie ... right about Yahoo - you can buy all kinds of illegal copies of televised stuff over there ... problem is, I don't sell or buy COPIES
I sent a separate email to the MPAA wherein I described the actual auctions (can't do that here due to AW Community Guidelines). I know that the MPAA have, in the past, taken action against video piracy. I sincerely hope they 'discuss' this with eBay. Hate to rat out eBay (!), but someone with a bigger stick than me really needs to get the eBay bots to start shaking their heads a bit.
I am really very interested in how eBay will justify their 'appropriate actions' when contacted by the MPAA. They won't tell me, but my MPAA contacts will.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:02:33 AM
"After eBay ended my auction citing copyright infringement"
If you have LEGALLY produced, commercuially sold tapes, all you have to do is fill out the VERO form and fire it back at eBay.
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=254275&id=254275 has the details of the relevant laws.
"In the case of a work lawfully reproduced in useful articles that have been offered for sale or other distribution to the public, copyright does not include any right to prevent the making, distribution, or display of pictures or photographs of such articles in connection with advertisements or commentaries related to the distribution or display of such articles, or in connection with news reports."
"The law contains a long-honored principle called the "First Sale Doctrine". This doctrine, which addresses the exact question that you raise, says that no restrictions whatsoever can be imposed on the right to resell merchandise by the first seller of that merchandise. Thus if a manufacturer sells goods, it cannot absent one of the few vary narrow exceptions there are to the First Sale Doctrine, impose any restriction on the right of the purchaser of those goods to resell them, or on the terms of any such resale."
posted on December 19, 2000 08:14:58 AM
abacaxi ... I am 99.44% sure that VeRO had nothing to do with ending my auction. I believe it was ended simply as a result of a competitor sending an email to SafeHarbour telling the SH kids that my item was illegal. I tried changing my ID to prevent this on future listings, but that doesn't work - everytime I list something it gets ended a few days later with the same 'bot email from eBay
As a matter of fact, I could probably list one of YOUR items under MY ID, and eBay would end it early!
Woe is me I guess my future on eBay is to buy only ...
We all know that eBay doesn't really 'investigate' these accusations. If they did, it would have made sense for them to contact me somewhere along the line ... wouldn't it???? It seems to me that in every real investigation that results in a trial, a conviction, and punishment, the accused gets an opportunty to state his/her case.
Besides, I set my "buy it" price WAY too low on these tapes anyway
posted on December 19, 2000 08:51:05 AM
I say send a copy of your e-mail also to the FBI. What a maddening, frustrating situation.
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I never had one, and I didn't want one, and I don't, so now I do...
I could have written your last post word for word... The EXACT same thing is happening to me.
No matter what I list, it gets ended. I have even written to ebay telling them that I was going to list so and so in the so and so catagory, is that OK?
Answer: Yes, that is the proper catagagory.
Auctions Last 5-6 days, over 100+ dutch bidders on combined auctions...
BAM! shut down for cross-posting.
I e-mail ebay with a copy of the email I received telling me this was OK...
BAM! suspended.
They say it is because of the cross-posting, but I know damn well that it was because I dared question their actions after I was given the OK, and the scum that ended them felt like an jackass.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:36:54 AMRB Sure there are a lot of pirated copies of tapes on Yahoo, but it is also an outlet when you have a legal copy to sell and keep getting shut down on Ebay.
Good luck!
Hi Pocono...long time no see. You are having quite a year of it this year huh?
How is that new house? Well it was new last year right?
posted on December 19, 2000 10:49:22 AM
labbie .. right again!
Now, if I could just figure out a way to get bids over at Yahoo!
Keeping in mind that I deal in original tapes and not copies, and mostly stuff from teevee, Yahoo is a great place for me to buy when these types of items are listed - there's never any competition. However, at any one time, there may be only 3 or 4 of these items listed at Yahoo as opposed to around 400 in the same category on eBay - not much to pick from at Yahoo.
And, for the same reasons, Yahoo is a lousy place for me to sell this stuff ...
posted on December 19, 2000 11:00:39 AM
I can not believe that they are so slack on pirated tapes! And then end your auction!!!
It's enough to make you hurl.
I say we all go find pirated auctions and email the heck out of safeharbor and the FBI.
Maybe ebay is going to go to bed with Columbia House.
Video/CD's are huge on ebay.
posted on December 19, 2000 11:45:52 AM
Capriole ...
Sending emails with auction ID's to SafeHarbour is a waste of time. You'll get their canned "we read every email" type response, then a few hours or a few days later, you'll get their canned "we have taken the appropriate action" type response. When you persue your complaint with facts (i.e. challenge their so-called appropriate action), that ends the communication with Safeharbour. They will cease to respond, they will never admit they erred, nor will they change their 'appropriate action' to that which is required by law and their very own written policies.
I doubt too if the FBI is interested in this. They tend to be more concerned about the same type of issues as Ms. Reno, that is, the large scale operations who make and sell thousands of pirated videos.
I do know, however, that the MPAA is VERY interested, and they WILL take action against the sellers, the buyers, and hopefully, eBay. They have received numerous complaints about eBay's ignorance, and eventually, the good old eBay "we can't police our site" arguement won't cut it anymore. Especially when some of us "experts" are really trying to help them do this, and are being ignored.
As to a Columbia House/eBay connection, that doesn't make sense. Each and every time a COPY of a Columbia House tape is sold, it takes money away from Columbia House. The series in question is still sold on a subscription basis by Columbia House. In addition, they have a reputation for quality products - if you purchased these copies off eBay and see the re-tv logo on your copy, you will not be impressed with the poor quality (multi-generation EP dubs with no starting or ending credits .... Aarghhhh!!!) and you may try to take issue with Columbia. Their collections are expensive, but they are well dubbed and packaged.
Folks - I really don't know what the solution is. Normally, I wouldn't involve the MPAA is this, but because eBay is allowing these illegal auctions to proceed and ending the legit ones (kinda backwards methinks), they are hurting my personal biz ...
On a positive note, out of the 60-odd people who managed to see my auction before it was stifled by eBay, I have had some very attractive offers to purchase the tapes ... no listing or selling fees
