RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:25:20 AM
I think this feedback thing is probably one of the most outrageous concepts to hit cyberspace. It's a bit like posting comments on each of the front doors to stores at the mall. I don't even read the things when I buy or sell. Some day we're going to see the first successful liable suit filed over this stuff...if it has not already transpired.
Acquiring good feedback has become an end in itself and the subject of much abuse from what I have read and seen.
Do away with it. It's meaningless, and probably generates more harm than good.
just my opinion...
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Meya
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:32:22 AM
Sounds like you need a glass of Eggnog, a cookie, and a place to put your feet up for a spell.
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rarriffle
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:35:43 AM
When sellers use it to blacklist buyers I agree with you. I am really tired of seeing warnings in auctions regarding # of feedback needed in order to bid. If businesses took this attitude they would close up shop in a hurry. We need to boycott these sellers until they wake up and enter the real world.
A zero feedback buyer just paid an ungodly price for a game (not an electronice game) and then paypaled enough to ship overnight along with auction amount. I will take all the 0 feedback buyers gladly. I have had 2 deadbeats and one of those had a very high feedback rating. The other seemed to fall off the face of the earth on a certain date and had wonderful feedback before that.
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:36:17 AM
But then I'd have to track down the eggnog company and leave feedback...
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:37:29 AM
Really...imagine Sears saying you couldn't spend money there until you proved you had spent money at ten other places...
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Meya
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:38:18 AM
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rarebourbon
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posted on December 19, 2000 10:54:41 AM
Not that I am disagreeing, but how would you know who you were dealing with otherwise?
As a buyer, I rely on feedback to tell me whether I should send my hard-earned cash to someone.
Cyberspace is a big place filled with 90% honest folks and 10% procrastinators, goofballs, liars, and whatnot.
I know I can trust Sears or Bloomingdales but what do I know about someone selling goods on eBay other than feedback rating?
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luvmy2bears
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:06:56 AM
What we need is a way to see how many auctions they (or we) have won. And next to that, how many ended successfully,with payment made. Then when a seller receives payment, they just check a box and it is added to the tally.
And then a selling profile. Total number of auctions ended with winning bids. And next to that, how many ended successfully with item sent.
No comments, no neg, neutral, pos. Just check the yes/no box.
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HartCottageQuilts
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:18:36 AM
luv2mybears, how does your proposed system advise prospective sellers of bidders who send payment late, short the seller on shipping, bounce a check and although repeatedly promising to make good on it never do, attempt to extract a post-sale discount by demanding a partial refund, attempt feedback extortion, or switch goods when attempting to obtain a refund?
rebelguns, if you never use FB, why demand that the system be eliminated? I'm not fond of Cheez-Whiz, but you don't see me demanding it be removed from Safeway's shelves.
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unknown
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:28:08 AM
YEah but your not REQUIRED to buy Cheeze wiz every time you visit the store.
Perhaps they shoul allow you to opt out of feedback? That would be interesting. Not private feedback but completely opting out of the system. i.e. you can't leave feedback and you don't have a feedback file so no one can leave you feedback.
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wyo50
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:28:29 AM
I just have to add my two cents here about feedback. Some of my quickest paying customers have been those with low feedback ratings, my worst was another seller with a very high feedback profile. I don't discriminate between the lows and highs; I give the lows and the 0's the opportunity to build their profile, if we don't who will, we were all once at 0. I don't like the idea of discriminatory restrictions put on who can or cannot buy, if all retailers did this, back to old days we go. I do look at the feedbacks, but I use alot of basic instinct when I communciate with my buyer, I don't use the standard automaticaly sent EOS notices. I have met some wonderful buyers and sellers alike. I also must say that the deadbeats, etc. out there really hurt the good ones and without the feedback we would not know who they are. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:41:45 AM
What did you do in the real world when ordering anything by mail from magazine ads and/or TV ads or catalogs? How did you function without feedback?
I think it would be interesting to see how many auctions a buyer/seller completed, but I don't need all the rhetoric, and wouldn't know how much of it to believe anyway.
You're reputation's only as good as your last purchase/sale anyway.
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:47:16 AM
HartCottageQuilts - You've never been pressured into posting feedback for a customer??? It can get pretty nasty and I don't have time for such games. I SHOULDN'T have to waste my time with this stuff. Not using it does not alleviate me from being harassed for it! And if you don't cooperate with the pitiful feedback-monger, you just might find yourself with a string of negative ones.
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Capriole
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:52:05 AM
You can opt out of feedback...just don't leave it...to the contempt of ebayers that do so.
Ebay is a community (okay a diluted weak-a$$ed one, but there ya go).
I can read consumer reports about cheeze whiz (thanks hcq, it's a funny metaphor) and decide if I want to buy it. I can also watch TV/read magz and see Kraft adds for cheeze whiz. It's out there, truth and fiction! Salty manufactured cheeze product posing as healthy snack food!
But what have ebay sellers and buyers got? Do bidders take the word of the seller? Or do you take the word of people who have bought from the seller. Same with the bidder.
Maybe it's all good, maybe the guys a thief (this applies to both sides of the transaction).
I like feedback, it's a cool tool. Not altogether accurate.
But...It has kept me from buying cheeze whiz mascarading as fine aged chedder a number of times.
hehehe
typo edit
[ edited by Capriole on Dec 19, 2000 11:53 AM ]
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nanastuff
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:53:03 AM
HCQ.....my compliments to you!
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computerboy
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:53:24 AM
Feedback should be viewed as a safegurd for buyers. It provides you with an indicator as to how well the seller delivers on their promises. It is very accurate and is a good thing to check before bidding on an auction.
As far as bidding is concerned, I do not qualify my buyers. The concept is a bit silly. I invite anyone who wishes to bid to participate in my auctions. If I run into a bad apple, I take the appropriate action and move on. People are good 99% of the time. I ignore the 1% bad.
I've run into some great customers on eBay and hope to finds some more in 2001.
Arch
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unknown
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:57:54 AM
The Ten Commandments of Feedback
I found these written on some stone tablets on the top of a mountain.
1) Do a good job offer good products and represent them accurately in your auctions.
2)Accept returns from dissatisfied customers. (But never refund postage, either way, ever)
3)Do what is reasonable to please customers, but don't go to extremes in an attempt to avoid negative feedback. Do only what a regular store might do.
4)If you run into a problem and are not sure what to do post it here, you will get plenty of generally sound advise.
5)Never leave negative feedback for simple cases like non-payment. Save it for bounced checks, outright theft, death threats, and much more serious matters.
6)Don't ever worry about a bidders feedback. It's frequently not relevant and it's time consuming to monitor your auctions and cancel bids.
7)Always file NBPA and FVF credit requests. Occasionally you will get paid even after a FVF credit request.
8)Don't check your feedback file. If it's wrong it is an injustice that you can do nothing about.
9)Don't hold checks and ship everything within 24 hours of receiving payment.
10) Pack your item professionally, and don't use hand written address labels.
Do these things and prosperity and Good feedback will come your way. Sure the occasional nut will leave you bad feedback but don't worry about it. Any customer that wouldn't buy from you because there is one compliant and 500 glowing comments isn't a customer you want anyway.
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 19, 2000 11:58:07 AM
Capriole - Not altogether accurate.
Is that the same thing as a little bit libelous?
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Capriole
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posted on December 19, 2000 12:33:22 PM
Remember feedback parties?
Nope not altogether accurate.
Yes, there is a little bit libelous. It's a little bit like gossip. You know? Some one might just take a story (their version, twisted or straight) and make you out to be the bad guy. That's why you look at the context.
I leave feedback for repeat buys on sellers I like. WTHN? I also have left negs and neutrals.
Am I wrong? According to the squirming piece of slime I left it for!
oops that would be libel!
lol!!
typo edit
[ edited by Capriole on Dec 19, 2000 05:34 PM ]
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rarebourbon
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posted on December 19, 2000 04:19:32 PM
Rebel Guns wrote: "What did you do in the real world when ordering anything by mail from magazine ads and/or TV ads or catalogs? How did you function without feedback?"
There aren't many catalog or mail order companies out there without reputations, one way or the other. And you can always check with the Better Business Bureau if you've never heard of the merchant. (They provide an excellent service, free of charge.)
I agree that feedback should be limited to "transaction successfully completed" or the opposite, without all the arbitrary and off-the-cuff wording that people are tempted to use. People can be irrational at times, especially in the heat of the moment, and say stuff they later regret. Everyone loses in that case.
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codasaurus
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posted on December 19, 2000 05:09:42 PM
Another thing to note about the "real world" is that it takes quite a bit of effort to set oneself up as a seller. All of that effort helps to validate your business to potential customers.
Storefront, catalog, media advertising, phone number, etc. For someone to go to all that trouble to scam folks it would have to be a rather large scam.
It is entirely different in the "online world". An email address and a smattering of HTML and you are very nearly in business. Online scams are easier to setup and execute.
Not that a high feedback seller or buyer can't scam other eBayers big time but I certainly believe it is less likely on average to see someone with a rating in the hundreds or thousands to pull such a stunt.
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HartCottageQuilts
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posted on December 19, 2000 07:31:21 PM
HartCottageQuilts - You've never been pressured into posting feedback for a customer???
Uh...no.
OTOH, I don't "pressure" easily. I don't even respond very accommodatingly even to badgering, bullying, and outright threats.
I knew my experiences with Fatboy (divorce #2) would someday come in handy 
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 19, 2000 07:32 PM ]
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figmente
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posted on December 19, 2000 08:36:22 PM
On the feedback lawsuit question I recall news stories quite a while ago of a lawsuit over someone selling cars on ebay losing a lot of business after a competitor left him a complaint (before transaction only fb).
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BB5365
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posted on December 19, 2000 09:36:55 PM
I was going to bid on a item one day about 2 weeks ago, went to check the sellers feed back and it said it was private. He had 300 plus, but you could not see if they were Pos, or Neg. Has anyone ever seen this before. And before you ask, NO, I did not Bid.
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seawytche
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posted on December 20, 2000 10:15:31 AM
For Private Feedback, if you click on the (private), you can get the pos, neg and neutral breakdown. You just can't see the specific comments.
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canvid13
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posted on December 20, 2000 10:27:56 AM
I think Ebay/Amazon need to think about their feedback systems. Like an earlier post said, we really only need a small amount of important info.
I know as a seller I've recieved NF from new comers asking questions!!
Sure 90% are fine but way too much time is devoted to the other 10%!!!
I also think they should have a section in Safe Harbor where (of course for a fee) you could get a feedback looked into and removed or clarified.
Then again, it's all pretty meaningless. Sheep will be sheep.
Baa
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mark090
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posted on December 20, 2000 10:29:04 AM
One thing I think eBay should do is fix the feddback number of the individual who left it. At present, a (0) fb leaves you a negative, which when read has no credibility. However, a month or two later this person has more fb and his statement starts to seem like he knows what he is talking about rather than having been left when he was a fresh neophyte.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on December 20, 2000 10:37:35 AM
I checked the feedback record of a buyer I left feedback for over a year and a half ago, and the number next to my id is my current feedback rating, not the rating that was current at the time I left the comment.
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RebelGuns
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posted on December 20, 2000 10:51:46 AM
Of course I am anti-feedback entirely, but another fix to the existing system might be to allow feedback posters to enter their user name and password to EDIT feedback they previously left. That way, after a cooling-off period, they can amend their comments if warrented.
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