posted on January 6, 2001 11:45:49 AM new
Ok, here's the situation...
I won a $100 gift certificate via ebay...
Actually, it was Yahoo, but the question still stands...Anyway, I get the envelope today in the mail, and it looks like someone took an envelope opener to it, and took anything that was in the envelope out of it...It was still sealed shut, but opened at the top...
My wife suggested that it was from one of the post office machines...I called the PO and asked them what we could do, and they pretty much told me "nothing", which is fully what I expected...
My question is, who is responsible for this?
The seller, the Post office, or me?
posted on January 6, 2001 12:11:20 PM new
Shouldn't the seller be responsible for getting the item to me though?
Similar to if I send Amazon.com some money, and they ship a product that doesn't arrive, they refund my money...
posted on January 6, 2001 12:55:54 PM new
I did get an envelope...an empty envelope...
The way I see it is that all I got was an empty envelope, and not what I paid for...
Isn't mail insurance there to protect the seller in situations like this???
posted on January 6, 2001 03:43:56 PM new
Check with eBay and see if there was any serial number on the gift certificate. I'm sure it must have been numbered and they can trace or stop payment on it and issue you another. Good luck.
posted on January 6, 2001 03:47:17 PM new
potvin -
It's probably a case of the certificate being taken out of the envelope by a mail handler OR in your mailbox ... ask the seller to help you trace it, or cancel it if it was stolen.
posted on January 6, 2001 09:32:47 PM new
As a seller I offer optional insurance, but according to federal Fraud regulations, if a seller doesn't make good on a sale - ie - actually get the item to the person, then the seller is ALWAYS responsible. This even applies to auctions that state, "I am not responsible if you don't buy insurance." The seller can sit back and say "to bad," but if the bidder reports them for fraud to the USPS, the local police department where the seller lives, or the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (www.ifccfbi.gov) then the seller is in for a BIG surprise.
I would contact the seller and see if they will work with you to track down the certificate. While the seller may say they are not responsible, there is no proof that the certificate WAS actually mailed. It may have been taken by a letter carrier, someone on the street, or it may have been never been sent in the first place.
If the seller refuses to help, kindly inform then that they are responsible and if they don't help you out, you will report them for fraud to the IFCC.
posted on January 6, 2001 09:55:36 PM new
Thanks for the info Kelly! That's what I was looking for...I had thought it was the sellers responsibility to get you the product...
Here is some more info about my situation...
1. He said he'd provide free overnight shipping, that didn't happen.
2. His feedback over the last few weeks is all bad, hasn't had a good comment in the last 6 months, people complaining of same problem...Should I contact them also???
3. Within 3 hours, the auction ended, he contacted the high bidder, the high bidder
said that he doesn't want to honor the bid, and that he'd sell to me...All in 3
hours! Seems fishy
4. Having difficulty reaching him again...funny, he was very responsive when I hadn't paid him yet...
I am already kicking myself for not sticking with my suspicions when #3 applied...I thought that was a little odd...
I paid via paypal, can I get them to reverse the transaction? It was paid with funds that were in my paypal account, but I was 99 cents short, so that part came on my charge card...
posted on January 7, 2001 06:02:14 AM newHow does the seller intend to prove that it was actually mailed with the gift certificate intact? Wouldn't it be hard to prove either way?
My point exactly. It's a game of bidder said/seller said, except that at least seller can prove he mailed something.(Whether the "something" was actually the item is another question.) All bidder can prove is that s/he received an envelope. S/he can't prove the envelope was empty.
posted on January 7, 2001 06:22:14 AM new
Well, this thread brings up an interesting phenonomem (me spell goodly!)!
Since May, 2000, I've mailed 500 items via USPS -- ALL with DC (charged to buyer -- it's in my TOS).
Approx. 6 of my winners told me they never received the item. I then "copy&pasted" the delivery info from the DC tracking web-site & sent it to them in an email stating: "Sorry your package was delivered, but must have been stolen or tampered with. Don't worry, I'll contact the USPS Postal Inspectors tomorrow and initiate an investigation."
EVERY TIME: Ya can hear ELO singing in the background ("It's a Miracle" -- as soon as I send that email, THE ITEM ALWAYS APPEARS!!
posted on January 7, 2001 06:23:46 AM new
this one *should* be easy if you are dealing with a honest seller. They should be able to stop payment on the missing gift certificate, and replace it. No one would be out anything so long as the gift certificate hasn't allready been used.
As for who is responsible, unless the terms where FOB (free on board), the seller is responsible for lost shipments. Anything I ship that is worth more than $50.00 gets insurance. (I charge the customer for it, and I don't let them "decline insurance"
posted on January 8, 2001 09:30:01 PM new
Here's his reply:
I dont understand who would have opened it. I have sent gift cards to family before and never had a problem. I really don't know what to do.
To which I send back:
Did you send the card wrapped in some paper, or just by itself in the envelope?
I do know that it's your responsibility to get it to me, and that hasn't happened...
We checked with our post office, and nothing turned up there, maybe you can check with yours to see if it is there...
Otherwise, my only suggestion would be to refund my money...
Please let me know what you think
And his next reply:
I will check with them 2mrw morning. Maybe it was damaged in shipment. I don't know what happen. Yes there was a thank you note to you which had the card wrapped inside it. I mailed the card and don't have a replacement to send to you. Unfortunatly I don't feel I can do anymore. I would suggest though that you file a rifleing and loss report with your local post office, I'm not sure what it amounts to though.
SORRY ABOUT THE PROBLEM.
Now, whose problem is this???
He seems to be trying to get rid of me by saying sorry about the problem...
I am about 50/50 thinking it is him lying to me, or it could be the postal theives...
Any more suggestions???
I don't want to throw fraud at him, but even if some sticky fingers in the PO got it, isn't it still his responsibility???
posted on January 8, 2001 09:48:24 PM new
Here are some suggestions:
First, Paypal. You can file a complaint with them. I would recommend this.
Be aware, however, that Paypal will probably take more than 60 days to resolve the complaint, based on comments in various forums like this one.
Second, you can do a chargeback with the credit card copmany, even for 1.00. However this will probably get your Paypal account frozen or cancelled. Be aware also that you generally only have 60 days to file a chargeback with a credit card company.
Personally, based on the feedback, I would contact the last 3 complainers and see what their story is. If they all say the same thing (slit envelope), or somethign similar (opened packages, etc.) then you DEFINITELY have a complaint for mail fraud!!!
Finally, you could check around on the USPS website for Mail Fraud phone numbers. There are regional employees; find the one closest to you. Make a report to them, and ask specifically if there are any other complaints from your zip code. That would indicate a local employee. (Won't help get your money, but might stop future problems!)
posted on January 8, 2001 09:53:51 PM new
I tried to find the other complainers, but it's on yahoo, and I can't get their email addresses...But their complaints are that they weren't sent anything at all! (1 guy complained of misinformation on one auction though)
This is frustrating because it's only $52, but then again it's $52, and the gift card was worth $100...
I don't want to burn him if he is an honest person (judging by feedback, I am not sure this is the case)
posted on January 8, 2001 10:02:25 PM new
He sold you a gift certificate - which is totally traceable. Have him get to you the receipt to get the certificate number. You can then stop anyone from using the certificate and have another one issued.
If he cannot provide you with certificate numbers chances are it never existed in the first place and you should check into mail fraud claims.
posted on January 8, 2001 10:05:13 PM new
I asked about the numbers, but got no response regarding them...
I seriously doubt he has them, because he says he got the card from work, at a party or something like that...
If he had them, I suspect he would have given them to me...
posted on January 8, 2001 10:13:18 PM new
'Suggest you start a Paypal fraud complaint immediately. Paypal will issue refunds on a first come, first served basis, if they can recover from the seller.
posted on January 10, 2001 09:36:47 PM new
Here's an update on this mess...
1. Seller refuses to refund money, will not reply anymore...
2. I filed with paypal and Yahoo (hopefully he'll get stopped eventually)
3. He's got at least 4 ID's on Yahoo, he's now leaving positive feedback for himself (funny, on the 'about me' page, they're all from the same city/state!)
I believe he has some action on ebay too...
Anyone want his Yahoo ID's or ebay, email me at [email protected] and I'd love to hear what you think about this guy...
Any other suggestions, maybe on how I can get Yahoo and/or paypal to deal with this quickly?
It started out that I just wanted my money back, but now, I'd love to take his butt to Judge Judy
thanks for any ideas you come up with
[ edited by potvin48 on Jan 10, 2001 09:38 PM ]
-- as soon as I send that email, THE ITEM ALWAYS APPEARS!!
