posted on January 9, 2001 06:33:55 AM
HEADS UP! If you have your preferences set to NOT recieve promotional emails, and if you discard a lot of email that looks loke another danged announcement ... this sneaky tactic could afect you.
EBAY and their hired spamvertiser, annuncio.com (hiding behind welcome.ebay.com) have decided to reset the preferences on one of my eBay accounts (a very lightly used one). I had them set to NO and they reset them to the "default" ... well the default is "spam me with everything you've got" ... they make it sound like I was somehow "misaligned" and they are trying to do me a favor.
IF YOU DO NOT SET THE PREFERENCES BACK TO "NO", YOU WILL BE GIVING EBAY AND ANNUNCIO PERMISSION TO SEND ANYTHING THEY WANT.
Annuncio.com was the spammer who did the Joe Dimaggio spam for eBay. And EVERY MESSAGE from annuncio is loaded with tracking tags that will direct you through their site, where a small program will record the tag and invisible redorect you to the place you thought you were going. They do this so they can tell what link you took. They want to accumulate a "profile" on you so they can send more spam and call it "targeted".
Text of email message .... notice at the bottom they have the traditional "Reply and we will remove you" crap that all spammers use.
*************
From: eBay Announcements <[email protected]>
To: DELETED RECIPIENT
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:31:22 -0700
Subject: Important Information from eBay
Priority: Normal
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Received: from pheideppides.ann0.com (pheideppides.ann0.com [64.41.134.134]) by jasper.he.net (8.8.6/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA17883 for <DELETED RECIPIENT>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:32:03 -0800
Message-Id: <[email protected]>
Received: from waltz (64.41.134.139) by pheideppides.ann0.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <[email protected]>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:31:22 -0800
Reply-To: "eBay Announcements" <[email protected]>
X-UIDL: PJ%"!;Hi"!f#_!!a+Y!!
X-mailer: Phoenix Mail 0.92.08 Standard Edition
MIME-Version: 1.0
Important Information from eBay!!
Dear DELETED,
Several times a month, eBay sends out valuable email communications with news, offers and special events that help you buy and sell. Unfortunately, we have noticed that an error occurred during your registration process that prevented you from receiving these communications. Many of your Notification Preference defaults were set to "no" rather than to "yes", which means that unlike other eBay members, you're not receiving these types of communications.
We'd like to resolve this problem quickly and efficiently. Therefore, on 1/8/01, we returned all your Notification Preferences to the standard default of "yes" to put you in line with the rest of the eBay community. However, we want you to choose your Notification Preferences rather than rely on our standard defaults and will therefore not include you in any communications until 1/23/01. This will provide you with some time to evaluate these choices and modify your Notification Preferences. You will, however, continue to receive certain administrative emails that are part of executing your eBay transactions.
Of course, you can review and change your Preferences by visiting: http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted)
You can also change your Notification Preferences at any time by selecting site map: http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted)
As always, your privacy is extremely important to us. To learn more about your relationship with eBay, refer to the User Agreement and/or Privacy Policy today.
User Agreement: http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted)
Privacy Policy: http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted)
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you. Thanks for being a valuable part of the eBay community.
----------------------------------------
To change your communication preferences, please visit http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted). Or, simply reply to this e-mail with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Please note that it may take some time to process your request. Visit our Privacy Policy at http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted) and User Agreement at http://welcome.ebay.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/(tracking tag deleted) if you have any questions.
posted on January 9, 2001 07:20:26 AM
Hello Abacaxi,
I received the same email.
I wonder what eBay is thinking as they seem to be targeting "inactive" accounts. Perhaps, they think that emails would prod these account holders into buying or selling?
Another misdirected effort at manipulating their registration base.
posted on January 9, 2001 07:56:25 AM
I was going to say it might have something to do with having everything set to "no." I have a few things set to "yes" (eBay rules changes, privacy changes, outbid notices), and did not receive any of the there-must-be-a-mistake notes from eBay and Annuncio (there's another, earlier AW thread on these same notes), so I was thinking maybe these notes targeted those with everything set to "no."
If you're right about them targeting fairly inactive accounts instead, I think they are probably trying to wring some additional "value" from otherwise "deadweight" accounts, while also trying to remind the user that eBay still exists.
In a way, though, it doesn't matter, because there is no excuse for the way it was done. If they send you a note, they should simply say there might be a "mistake," and give you a (non-tracking) link to the preference change pages to give you the choice to "correct" this "problem." Even that note would be a little promotional in nature, and thus maybe borderline spam itself, but would still be considerably better (if sent one time only) than forcing changes down someone's throat. Better yet would be for them to assume that's what the user did want and not say anything.
When it comes to direct marketing, there is little respect for the wishes of the consumers. We're just so many targets for them to shoot arrows at, and even if we try putting up a shield, they try to find a way to shoot around it. Privacy rules are yet another annoyance to direct marketing goals, so they'll try to find ways around them, in the process demonstrating how much many "privacy policies" are actually worth.
Notice the wording, "we returned all your Notification Preferences to the standard default of "yes" to put you in line with the rest of the eBay community," like someone not wanting spam is somehow not normal. IMO, the whole phrase above looks very disrespectful and patronizing.
This case here is yet another reason why I'll keep the first line in my .sig around, though I'm tempted to replace "crazy" with flat-out "unethical," because that's how I really feel about a lot of practices done by direct marketers or for direct marketers on and offline -- a lot of it worse then what eBay is doing.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ Edited to eliminate redundant "really." ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Jan 9, 2001 08:56 AM ]
posted on January 9, 2001 08:03:43 AM
Codasaurus ...
Yes, the account hit has never bought or sold, AND I set the preferences to NO the instant I created it.
I have let eBay AND annuncio know that it was a slime-sucking spammer trick ... they should have known better after the crap they took when they "lost" the preferences and spammed people, and tried to pass that Joe DiMagion spam of as an "administrative announcement".
I saved the settings they gave me ... can compare them to the original. they ALSO set the "telemarketing" to YES!
They hit my third account. One I had set up to assist a friend who was having problems selling a book due to auction interference. I do not recall if I ever went into notification preferences on that account.
I used that account to bid on a single auction quite a few months ago.
posted on January 9, 2001 08:19:42 AM
I received some promotional email from eBay at the end of December even though I had specified I did not wish to receive such things. I wrote to eBay and asked why I was receiving the SPAM and they replied stating that they had now reset my preferences so that I would not receive any more promotional emails. They did not state how or why I had received the email in the first place or even how my preferences were ever changed without my consent...
My account has been active ever since I created it and I've never received any promotional emails prior to this. Makes you wonder...
posted on January 9, 2001 08:29:11 AM
"Notice the wording, "we returned all your Notification Preferences to the standard default of "yes" to put you in line with the rest of the eBay community," like someone not wanting spam is somehow not normal. IMO, the whole phrase above looks very disrespectful and patronizing."
What do you expect from ANNUNCIO and the sales-droids at eBay. They can't imagine a world in which EVERYONE doesn't pee their pants from sheer delight at getting ads in the email.
"not wanting spam is somehow not normal" ... If I ever start liking spam, please send Lumber Cartel (tinlc) over and just whap me between the eyes with a mallet, then send my carcass off to Hormel for recycling.
posted on January 9, 2001 08:32:54 AM
Well, if it isn't about active vs. relatively inactive accounts, maybe it is about whether all notification options are "no" vs. at least a couple being "yes." abacaxi and Codasaurus: does this hypothesis hold any water?
Either that, or they're going to hit everyone that says "no" to direct-marketing options -- but spread these changes out over time, so they are not as noticed, or they don't get overwhelmed with complaints or something.
Notice their words: "As always, your privacy is extremely important to us." Hah! If it really were, they'd have easily found a better way to "fix" this supposed "error... during... registration process," in my opinion. I already suggested the obvious alternative, in my previous note. In my opinion, anyone who really cares about privacy knows that, at a minimum, it's about giving the customer a choice and then respecting that choice.
[ Edited for a few additions. ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Jan 9, 2001 08:42 AM ]
posted on January 9, 2001 08:52:53 AM
I don't recall what my notification preferences were on the third account so I can't speculate about the some versus no notifications theory.
I do recall getting some daily status emails on my selling account a few months ago clear out of the blue. I know that I had set the preferences in that account to only receive listing confirmations.
On my crypto collecting account I have only bid notices checked off.
I saw many posts on Q&A in the final months of 2000 that mentioned the mysterious resumption of an email option. And even more about the time lag in EOA and outbid notices.
posted on January 9, 2001 09:15:01 AM
codasaurus' posts reminded me that I was also receiving "outbid notices" for a few days in December even though I had specified not to. This lasted for about 1 week and then mysteriously stopped without me doing anything...
Maybe the question we should be asking is how secure is eBay's system if someone can change my preferences without having my password...
posted on January 9, 2001 09:39:07 AM
dc9a320 -
Not all the preferences were set to "NO" ... I had left a couple of them at YES.
But that is not relevant: I had them set the way I wanted them, and Spammuncio.com persuaded eBay that all those people who weren't getting ads MUST be deluded and deranged and needed to be "adjusted" back into conformity. (DANG! sounds like Brave New World or 1984!)
ptimko
EBAY DID THE RESETTING, or said OK to annuncio.com's request to reset! They have full control over your user data.
posted on January 9, 2001 10:17:01 AM
I realize that eBay has full control over my preferences. However, I don't recall in the user agreement that eBay is allowed to choose what messages I receive...
Next thing you know they'll be sending our credit card numbers out to the highest bidder...
posted on January 9, 2001 02:53:22 PMabacaxi: I find what you're saying to be very believable. Apparently, Annuncio has some level of access at eBay, hiding, as you said, under welcome.ebay.com. You had a good point describing it that way, because this is so typical of direct marketers, quietly burrowing their way, like parasites, into so many aspects of consumer life, to the point you have entities like credit bureaus, colleges, state DMVs, major banks, pharmacies, chain stores, and websites selling out their customers. Sneaky because they know most people would be angry if they realized what is done for the sake of piles of junk mail, pushy telemarketing, annoying spam, door-to-door solicitation, and blinking banner ads, how things like rebates, "registration" cards, contests, many "cards," are also often used to collect for direct marketing.
No wonder I'm bidding less and less at eBay. In general, I like to shop and get out, not to hear from a bunch of direct marketers for months or years afterwards. I'm looking for good products and service, not junk. eBay was the one place that, until early last year at least, I thought was clear of direct marketing nonsense (I only got spammed six times in 19 months before early last year); now, I feel it is infested with it (and I'm getting 100x the spam rate since early last year). The good thing about this is it drove me to "discover" antique malls, live auctions, hobby shops, rummage sales, and other sources of neat stuff.
It's a pity, eBay was a heck of a destination without the ads and other junk, now it's ho hum, if I bid will I attract another ten pieces of spam.
posted on January 9, 2001 03:13:48 PM
So they're not targeting all-NO preferences, and it doesn't seem like they're targeting just very low-use accounts either. So maybe they will do this to every user eventually. Cute. If or when they do, they'll get a complaint from me, though I know that won't do much good.
Yes, you are exactly right, abacaxi. I said from my first note in this thread that it doesn't really matter exactly who they are targeting (I'm just sort of curious, that's all), but the fact they are changing people's preferences for them. Funny thing is, this might be a loophole in the privacy policy. I'd have to check, but it is possible that while it explains the ability of a user to set notification preferences, that it says nothing about eBay itself "fixing" them if they find an "error... during... registration process."
That's the problem I have with privacy policies, the reason that I appreciate the fact that companies write them, but still don't trust one whit that companies will follow the spirit of them. There have been a string of fairly well-publicized incidents of these sorts of violations, usually of the spirit of privacy than of the exact legalese itself. Maybe this is why this is happening with slow creep. I don't know, and I find it fruitless to speculate.
However, on a different, more general line of speculation, I suspect, but have no way of proving, that dot-coms have collectively cost themselves a few billion dollars of consumer gross income due to trust issues over either security or privacy. The ad market is still rather soft now too, hammering dot-coms from several directions. I never thought direct marketing "alone" was the right idea (economically or ethically), and I believe they're now reaping the bitter rewards of consumer distrust and perennially low click-through rates. (Yes, there are other huge factors involved too, but the ones I mention can't be helping. )
Still, a direct marketer's money right in one's face is easier to recognize than complicated, hard-to-quantify factors such as "trust," so it won't stop anything. I wonder if anyone's done a true, thorough, unbiased study on these issues.
posted on January 9, 2001 04:08:27 PM
Fro, a discussion at SLASHDOT.org .... This is what we will be facing soon if the trend continues ...
Dear eBay customer,
Our service allows netizens to bid for various items via auction. This allows them to buy rare items if they place a bid higher than other users' bids. Unfortunately, we have noticed that you have not placed a bid in the past few weeks.
Effective immediately, we have placed and won numerous bids using the credit card information we have on your file. You shall be billed for them within the month. We hope you enjoy using eBay!
posted on January 9, 2001 04:21:56 PM
This was FIRST reported here on AuctionWatch in DEC (email received from ebaY 19Dec). I wish I could remember the persons AW ID, but I can't and don't want to reveal any personal info. I guess that was a test run, and since they did not get enough of a negative response they are spreading it.
If you receive this email from ebaY, file a complaint on it with TRUSTe and BBBOnline, SPAMcop and whoever else you can think of. If I get one I will file in a heartbeat! This is really INCREDIBLE !!!
posted on January 9, 2001 05:05:26 PM
Note from a newsgroup where I griped:
********
My dear user, clearly this is a misunderstanding. These aren't spams, they are valuable commerce opportunities which you cannot live without. eBay obviously is concerned that you misunderstood the email preferences section, which provide you with valuable marketing information. Since they were all unchecked, their system alerted their Customer Service Senior Executives to this fact that you might be left out of all of these important communications.
In order to foster your personal development and promote optimum paradigm uplift, they have taken it upon ourselves to correct this grave insufficiency. Throughout their personalised customer service philosophy, they demonstrate the extent of which they value your business and take proactive steps to ensure you receive nothing but peerless service unmatched in the industry. eBay hopes you enjoy hearing about their unique opportunities and will continue to benefit
from taking part in the emerging global economy.
These aren't spams. They are valuable market opportunity communiques.
posted on January 9, 2001 06:54:44 PM
I loved the powerspeak/doublespeak/gobbledegook response above. I find this sort of parody of corptalk to be hilarious.
Yeah, I know I'm responding to a second version of a recent AW thread, but it is interesting that it wasn't a one-time thing, but apparently ongoing (01/08 on the new eBay note), and was curious about new items, and whether I might be subjected to eBay's 'helpfulness' to put me "in line with the rest of the eBay community." If I am, believe me, they and others will will certainly hear about it!
<heavy sarcasm>
"Your privacy is extremely important to us." Uh, sure, like I really believe that after the rest of the note. Perfect example of doublespeak, IMO.
</heavy sarcasm>
posted on January 9, 2001 10:11:03 PM
Don't you just love Pursglove's comment that "We are concerned that many people who signed up during that period of time that they might not be getting all the e-mail that they do want". Say what? They are concerned that I might not be getting my Minimum Daily Requirement of Spam? BTW, the settings on my very active selling account, registered in 1998, were reset. I even "agreed" to accept telemarketing calls. Imagine that! This is one of the lower things I have witnessed eBay do.
[ edited by birdwatcher on Jan 9, 2001 10:14 PM ]
posted on January 9, 2001 10:12:51 PM
And why do they say it may take 14 days for my preference "changes" (back to the way I had set them 3 years ago) to take effect? I guess their spamvertiser works with less-than fresh eBay user ID databases.
posted on January 10, 2001 05:14:31 AM
I just filed a complaint with TRUSTe, because eBay is clearly NOT doing what they are supposed to do, and did not obey their own privacy statement when the reset my preferences to "spam the hell out of me"
Complaint form is at:
http://www.truste.org/users/users_watchdog.html
posted on January 10, 2001 08:11:46 AMbirdwatcher: To look like they really are concerned about your privacy? They worded it like they're giving a grace period: "This will provide you with some time to evaluate these choices and modify your Notification Preferences." Notice they said "these choices," because, of coarse, thes aren't your choices, but their choices, so "these choices" is a neutral phrasing.
Usually I'd think a spammer would want to spam immediately, but either eBay (or Annuncio if it were more sly), wanted to leave a gap to lower the level of complaints by making it seem like they gave a reasonable chance to "evaluate these choices." They'd get even more complaints if they just started spamming right away.
They also are spreading out these changes as well. I personally think these two factors together, plus the general wording of the notes, does look sneaky, like they're trying to slide the changes in low and slow, under the threshold of what would trigger media scrutiny like happened with Real Jukebox, DoubleClick, Comet cursors, and several others over the past couple of years. Just my opinion, but it does strike me like that.
posted on January 10, 2001 08:19:56 AM
In the meantime, going through the note's provided link to change your preferences back to the way you had them, you have to go through the Annuncio server (welcome.ebay.com) first on your way there, as pointed out by abacaxi's original note.
My suggestion to bypass that would be to change preferences the usual way, namely: ignore the provided links in the note, go to the main www.ebay.com page, click on Services, look in the right column for "My eBay," and under that click the "Change my notification preferences" item.
posted on January 10, 2001 08:28:18 AM
http://pages.ebay.com/services/myebay/optin-login.html
Is a direct link to the preferences page.
dc9a320 -
You are right about the slow going ... they may have tried just resetting and a trial spam, but got outraged complaints from people who KNEW what they had set.
So now they are doing us a favor and "bringing us in line with the eBay community" when they do this. But it's still rude and it's absolutely not accceptable.
One bit this article mentioned is that eBay's registration supposed error "affects roughly 6 million customers who signed up for eBay between April and November of last year." Apparently, they will not be sending me one of those notes then.
I am leaving more comments about the article itself in the other AW thread I just cited.
posted on January 10, 2001 09:03:22 AM
My problem with this whole thing is not so much that eBay would obviously like to advertise and market and bring in revenue from every possible resourse. eBay is a business and this is what businesses do. My problem is that instead of simply INFORMING people of the POSSIBILITY that they MAY wish to change THEIR preferences, eBay took it upon themselves to actually change the settings and then make people go back and opt out again. I think it's a sleazy marketing ploy and eBay's members deserve better treatment. Unfortunately, this is what marketing people do and eBay is run by marketing people.
posted on January 10, 2001 09:39:30 AM
FOUND AT SLASHDOT.ORG ... that was not spam, that was a "campaign". The hired spamvertiser calls it that.
**********************
I just got a response to a spam report I filed because ebay "forgot" my no-spam preferences again. I thought it was interesting that attached to the "fix it yourself" form letter (we won't stop spamming until you change your prefs back again) was this little note, apparently added by someone at the bulk-for-hire site as they forwarded the complaint on to ebay:
"Another spam complaint from the preferences campaign."
I found it particularly interesting that they are referring to it as the "preferences campaign". This is probably old news to most, but I don't think ebay can really deny they're spamming.
***********
They could just as easily have sent a note advising people to check their preferences because they might have been screwed up without resetting.
If you calculate dates ... I got it on the 8th and they give me until thr 23rd "will therefore not include you in any communications until 1/23/01" ... sounds reasonable until you reset the preferences and thry say: It may take up to 14 days for the changes to take effect. That's because they send a copy of the database to the spammer a couple weeks ahead of time so all the emails can get canned.
They appear to give me a 15-day window ... but if I had waited a few days, there would be a window of several days up to 2 weeks where they can say "oops, the updates haven't taken effect yet" and weasled out of taking the blame for spam. And one good spamming run can earn them thousands of dollars from the sponsors of the "special offers".
posted on January 10, 2001 09:50:07 AM
April to November 2000 my foot! I have had an account since early 1998 and had my preferences reset from NO to YES by eBay.
This is part of the message I got from eBay. The complete excuse is an all time low in patronizing "you are stupid" garbage.
"We returned all your Notification Preferences to the standard default of "yes" to put you in line with the rest of the eBay community."
eBay is in blatant violation of Privacy standards, (not that there are many), and in direct violation of its agreement with TRUSTe. According to TRUSTe eBay does not have the right to reset preferences to yes when an individual specifically withdraws "tacit consent" to telemarket and send SPAM by *not* opting out.
There was no "tacit consent", where users *didn't* tell eBay not telemarket and send SPAM. eBay in its arrogance ignored the fact that users specifically *did* tell eBay NO telemarketing and no SPAM and reset preferences.
The excuses are transparent and assume people are just plain dumb. When did telemarketing calls become "Courtesy Calls"? eBay has redefined SPAM too. The SPAM excuse is that eBay hasn't given information to a 3rd party without user's knowledge or consent, so the SPAM, (excuse me, "Informational Announcements",from eBay itself are OK.
Why bother to have opt out, or opt in, or any Privacy polices if eBay can use these lame excuses to get away with resetting preferences for potentially millions of registered users from NO to YES? No Internet company should have the right to reset opt out to opt in for millions of people when it decides to increase revenues with telemarketing and SPAM.
eBay is an 800 pound gorilla and I hope when Congress has hearings on Internet privacy Mr. Pursglove is called before the Committee, (and C-span cameras) to defend its actions. I would like to hear him spout eBay's transparent marketing excuses to justify to a Congressional Committee resetting millions of users opt out choices to opt in.
I filed a Watchdog complaint with TRUSTe. I urge everyone to complain to the FTC and your Congressman as well.
posted on January 10, 2001 10:05:25 AM
This is the Annuncio page about the marketing platform it has developed and "manages" for eBay.
http://www.annuncio.com/customers/index2.html
If I am, believe me, they and others will will certainly hear about it!
,from eBay itself are OK.