posted on January 12, 2001 05:38:14 PM
I see that alot of sellers are now adding "Handling Fees", "Boxing Fees", "Packing Fees", etc. Besides wondering what they mean, I'd just like to know what these fees include?
Should sellers be responsible for breaking this down for the buyer, or should the buyer be responsible for asking what it's for?
In my experiences, the seller's I've asked seem very defensive about me asking, so how can you find out a/ what the terms mean? and b/ what they include? without getting answers like "they're my expense fees", or something similar?
posted on January 12, 2001 05:51:54 PM
All right, an handling thread. We haven't had one for awhile!
Some sellers put their costs in the opening bid, (where you have to pay ebay a percantage) some put it in their TOS, which is fair, if you don't like the charge don't bid, some tack it on the first time they contact you after an auction, which is not right at all.
You asked
<Should sellers be responsible for breaking this down for the buyer, or should the buyer be responsible for asking what it's for?>
To me, neither. If it is a stated fee, there is no need for a bidder to know exactly what it is for. Do you ask this of other places you purchase from over the internet? If you don't like it, pass it by.
If it is not stated, then you do have the right and responsibility to yourself to find out the amount before you place a bid, or get in a binding contract, so you have no surprises later.
Some people will say "I never bid on auctions with a handling charge" which is a little silly, because they are paying for it somewhere.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:05:38 PM
Handling charges are pretty common in the mail order business.
If you go into a retail store, you pay the fixed price of the item. The seller knows what the item will sell for, so the seller can price it to reflect his time, overhead, cost of merchandise, and a reasonable profit. Once the sale is completed, the seller has little further work to do on the transaction (the buyer just walks out the door with it).
Online auctions are a bit different. Sellers don't know what the final price of the item will be (buyers determine that, not sellers), so there is no way to reasonably include these things into the final value of the item. (PLEASE, if one more person says: 'Just raise the opening bid..' I'm gonna scream! This shows a major misunderstanding of online auctions and of business in general.) Further, once the transaction ends, the seller takes time to package the item, pay for the packaging, and get it to a shipper. Not so at a retail store. Time is money.
In my view, online auction sellers are justified in charging a handling charge, as long as it's disclosed in the auction terms. I don't see any need to go into great specifics in the TOS regarding what it covers. If a buyer objects to a reasonable handling charge, there are plenty of other widgets out there waiting for bids.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:14:55 PM
Wow! Long time no see, Steve!! Great to see you!
BTW..I dont charge handling. Whats to handle? The box? But thats my opinion and my method. Other sellers have to purchase peanuts, styrofoam, specialty boxes and the like. They HAVE to charge, or they eat it. Me, I just stick it in a priority box and thats it.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:19:20 PM"(PLEASE, if one more person says: 'Just raise the opening bid..' I'm gonna scream! This shows a major misunderstanding of online auctions and of business in general.)"
Seriously, if that works for you, great! Different folks run their business differently. But you gotta get the stuff to the shipper, right? And gotta pay for the packing materials, right? So you're out time and money because the buyer is having you ship the item to him (as opposed to a retail operation where he picks it up).
Right now, I'm listing all my things at $1, No Reserve. Some are worth $100+. Since the buyer is determining the final price of the item, I feel OK in charging a flat $4 for s/h.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:25:40 PM
But that's what bidders think, we just shove it in a box.
In reality we
order that box, unload that box from the truck, store that box, tape that box, pack the item (well, so it arrived undamaged) tape the box some more, make a label, weigh the box for proper postage and take it to the PO.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:30:55 PM
Postage is postage, handling is handling. "What's the handling fee for?" makes no sense; it's for handling. I suppose such a question might be justified if the charge were very high, but otherwise I consider it an affront. The price is there for you to see, if you don't like it, don't bid, but please don't waste my time asking me where every penny goes. FYI, most of my time is spent not packaging items, but chasing down deadbeats and chasing after bidders who provide incomplete shipping information. Sadly, the paying customers absorb this cost. And as for the "convenience" of paying online by credit card, yes, customers pay for that too.
You may not be doing this as a business. I am, and I must recover my costs. I can't afford to chip away at profits by absorbing this cost and that.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:31:49 PM
When I buy something on ebay I expect it to arrive the way it looked in the picture. I know packing materials aren't free and I don't mind paying a fee. I do get upset when they charge extra and the item arrives broken because it was in a too small box with a couple of newspapers stuffed around it. I've gotten two like that so far. I always pay for insurance, but one item was something hard to find that I really wanted.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:40:31 PM
I ship everything in 200lb. test weight boxes..plus I bubblewrap every item..no matter how small..plus I shred decorative paper to fill the rest of the box (in case the box is too big). Even after doing all this I usually only charge $1 for shipping on most single items. I sell Delica beads..not too heavy.
Don't want to hear no whining about me overcharging for shipping/handling.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:42:42 PM
Whats to handle ???
I have nights here when I spend the better part of three hours makeing boxes to fit just 3 or 4 items I never have a boxes just the size for each item I find it more effective space wise and cost wise to buy card board flat sheets and make boxes and mailers to fit what I sell my fixed fee includes handleing for my time and cost of materal if the buyer dont want to pay my modest fee I can send there package to company to package it where the fee will be far more.
When I have a good week I can sell from 20 to 30 items that require special handleing and packageing far more then just handleing a box I charge from 8% to 10% of the above shipping cost acording to the weight of the Item sold.
MBE would make about $600 to $800 a month packageing items from my auctions I think the buyers would rather pay the .30 to $1 extra for me to do the same job.
In any case I think this breaks down handleing pretty well Time makeing custom packageing, cost for Material.
These are mail order auctions there is no way for a seller to know at what price a winning bid will be but there is a way they can deterim costs of time and packageing to ship. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on January 12, 2001 06:49:12 PM
I just buy. There is no reason for a seller to add the handling charge to the opening bid. I do that myself (did I just hear a scream?). I also add all other costs; Money Order Fees ( and picking up MO expenses), shipping, and whatever else the seller chooses to include in the TOS. I arrive at a real cost for an item and bid accordingly. It really doesn't matter to me what terms and handling charges are placed in a listing. If it's a fair deal on something I want, I bid. If it's not, I don't.
All that matters to me is that all expenses associated with the transaction are clearly spelled out in the TOS. I don't like it when sellers just check off the box that indicates "see auction listing for shipping and payment methods accepted" and then include nothing of the sort.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:50:22 PM
I'm not knocking Handling charges, and am not talking about the 50 cent add-ons.
If I buy an item an agree to the Handling/Packing/Boxing Fees, or whatever the add-on fees are called, that's my choice. But when I get an item that cost $2.00 to ship and I've paid $6.00, I think I deserve to know where my other $4.00 went. I'm not talking nickles & dimes, but whole dollars! (LOL!) These extra dollars add up for the buyer too.
I'd like to know why Sellers don't like addressing what the extra charges are for (not you guys, but the other 10 million in eBayland).
I also wonder if the added fees are a growing trend? Maybe because eBay isn't as reliable (or profitable) for sellers as it was in the past few years.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:56:33 PM
Now now...remember I said I myself dont charge because I sell apparel and get my boxes free with USPS and dont need packing stuff. I didnt mean to imply that folks who charge handling fees didnt pay for those items in order to ship items safely. (This is just in case someone thinks I meant otherwise).
Now...I dont wanna beer, 'cause its icky. But, I could use some kahula and cream!
posted on January 12, 2001 07:01:54 PM
If you charge a handling fee for the cost of materials can you still claim the buying of these materials as a business expense?I don't charge but just wondering how that works?
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
posted on January 12, 2001 07:07:12 PMI'd like to know why Sellers don't like addressing what the extra charges are for....
Itr seems many sellers here were forthcoming about their fees. Even though you seem to be lumping all sellers and every kind of fee into the same boat.
I've never been in a position of paying $6 for shipping/handling and then have the item arrive with $2 postage. Because I am careful before I place my bid. But if I did bid in an auction that stated $6 s/h, and sent payment, I would not be concerned as long as the item arrived in a timely manner.
One of the exciting aspects of eBay is that every seller is different. Every seller has different policies and products. If you can find one that sells items at 90% off retail, charges actual postage while absorbing the packaging costs, ships next day and notifies you by email, by all means HANG ON TO THAT SELLER! I believe most eBay sellers fall somewhat short of the ideal.
If the shipping/handling fee as stated in the ad seems high, email the seller. If you get a reasonable answer, bid, but if not, pass it by. I passed on an auction that included $5 s/h when I knew the actual postage was $3.20, box included. I won't pay $2 for wadded up newspaper.
KD, your tone is accusatory, which is why I don't usually respond to questions regarding shipping. If you start off telling the seller, "explain this rip-off to me," then there's nowhere to go but down. Really, there are so many little time-consuming tasks, and in the end, the buyer still complains. As I wrote above, I don't approve of excessive handling.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:11:26 PM
<<But when I get an item that cost $2.00 to ship and I've paid $6.00, I think I deserve to know where my other $4.00 went. >>
If the $6.00 was quoted up front, in the TOS, and a bidder bids, no, I really don't think they deserve to know where it went. Most bidders just say they include all charges when they decide the amount to bid.
If the handling fee is outrageous, the seller will learn to adapt by the lack of bids.
However, I still despise fees that are added on after the auction ends.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:16:03 PM
Kraft: we prefer not to charge a handling fee because we think people DO like to have every cost spelled out for them (we do!). However, things are getting pricier and pricier and we're starting to re-think the handling charge policy. For example, bubble wrap -- to wrap anything of substance uses about 50 cents worth of bubble wrap. If it's large or an odd size, you also have to buy a box for it (USPS boxes ... which are free ... only fit about 50% of our things) -- large size boxes can cost anywhere from $2 to $15 depending on their size and durability. Tape and labels are free from the USPS. Styrofoam peanuts are the most expensive or all -- we recently bought a shredder and are now shredding all our junk mail to use for packing -- turning an annoyance into an asset!
Bottom line: 'Handling' is anything the dealer wants it to be...however, please be sensitive to the cost of packaging, especially on large and/or fragile items. However, dealers really should not pad handling with their cost of gasoline, etc. There is, after all, such a thing as the "cost of doing business"!
posted on January 12, 2001 07:17:30 PM
As long as your not makeing a profit on packing marterals you can still claim it.
When you buy a carton of Milk part the the cost of the milk is the carton labeling and cost of trucking it to the store where you bought it.
You dont see these fees listed in the dairy case but it is a good 20% the cost of a carton of milk, same when you buy shampoo, and all other packaged items you buy.
all businesses charge for packageing in fact some biger name brands that are very high priced your paying 50% of that cost just for the name on the package take many name brand and generic item even medications even though they are just the same thing the generic is 50% lower or even less.
Point is that all businesses charge for packageing difference is Handleing is a term you see in mail order for packing and packageing. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on January 12, 2001 07:24:27 PM
Mail order is different than retail. Retail you buy it, they throw it in a 1 cent bag, and you walk away with it.
Mail order- someone has to pay for the cost of the packaging, the cost of shipping, and the time it takes to get that done. And ultimately, that's gonna be the buyer- if the seller wants to stay in business.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:34:44 PM
Just thought I'd add before this thread sails away. These "handling fee" threads always degenerate into a discussion of packaging costs. You may figure it that way, but packaging costs are separate from handling fees.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:35:01 PM
I don't mean to sound like that twinsoft. I'm talking about the Handling charge itself, and WHY it's such a big deal for sellers to talk about.
I know what I pay for an item, I know what the shipping charge is, but the Handling Fee is a grey area to me as a buyer.
If a Seller adds ANY extra fee, why can't I know what I'm paying for? Not on every transaction, but on the ones I would question.
If a seller said (as an example) "$5.00 Handling for box and packing materials", then it's right in front of me. But if I paid $5.00 extra, and just wanted to know what that meant, how could I find out without making the seller feel like he's on the witness stand? And why is it such a hot topic? I just want to know what the Handling charge means??
posted on January 12, 2001 08:00:25 PM
I generally charge $1 to ship something that costs 34 cents or 55 cents to ship. The excess helps cover packing material, envelopes, paper, helps to cover paypal and CC fees, etc. I think this is reasonable, and I've never had anyone complain.
I also find it very unreasonable to spend $5 and find out it costs 55 cents to ship. I've bid on a few of these and have stopped. The first think I look at is the postage and handling costs.
I have no problem paying above the postage fee, but it has to fall into a reasonable range. If it doesn't, I just don't bid (and I sometimes e-mail the seller to let them know why I decided not to bid.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:10:20 PM
Handling fees are for handling. Not packaging. Not your beer money. Imagine two little kids in the back seat of your car. One touches the other with his finger and says, "I'm handling you!" That's handling, 'kay?
If the ad states, "$5 for shipping/handling" then you KNOW what the fee is for. You may not like it, but you do know. If that is not enough, not satisfactory, and a buyer wants a penny-by-penny breakdown of the seller's every cost, well, maybe there are other sellers who will provide that information. I don't.
KD, the problem with your question is that even when sellers provide a detailed itemized list of expenses that are part of the general catch-all "handling" fee, it's never enough. The buyer still thinks he's getting ripped (as is sometimes the case), or you get dumb comments like "build it into the minimum bid" (which makes no sense at all).
There are sellers who overcharge on handling. The best remedy is to exercise caution when bidding. Sellers may not add fees that aren't explicitly stated in the ad. So there's no reason for buyers to complain afterward.
posted on January 12, 2001 09:48:37 PM
I have found a happy median. As a buyer I dislike sellers who don't disclose shipping & handling fees, then "surprise" me with an obvious (and devious) extra money maker for themselves.
I don't dare say anything for risk of negative feedback, because there's always some hot-head who says "I don't work for free, my envelopes, tape, etc, aren't free, my time at the post office and gas, wear&tear on the car isn't free either.
I've seen some sellers who want to make more profit ask a low price (especially in Dutch auctions), and slap a $5 shipping and handling fee on an envelope that cost 33 cents to mail, quite poor protection for a floppy disk in this case. At least this seller clearly mentioned the S&H fee in the auction description.
I see had a few negative feedbacks due to his high S&H fees.
What I do is clearly put the shipping price in the auction description, making it only slightly higher than the true postage is. For example, the true postage is $2.25, I charge $2.95 S&H. It's only a few cents more, but it over time, it adds up.
Often I get much higher final high bids than I ever dreamed possible, so that more than makes up for any minor losses. And, brace yourself, I always add a bit more to the opening bid. Once my feedback surpassed the 100 mark, I decided I earned the right to treat myself and raise prices by $1 to $2. I already made a good profit, but now it's even better, and don't ask which items they are, it's a secret!
posted on January 12, 2001 11:17:15 PM
"...order that box, unload that box from the truck, store that box, tape that box, pack the item (well, so it arrived undamaged) tape the box some more, make a label, weigh the box for proper postage and take it to the PO."
barrelracer, that's classic! Hope you don't mind if I copy and paste that as a reply for the next person who emails me and says, "priority is only $3.95!!!" lol. I don't get why a buyer expects me to work for free. To be fair to myself, I should be tacking on a minimum of $5 for handling.
\"It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
\"
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Jan 12, 2001 11:24 PM ]
