posted on January 13, 2001 12:54:28 AM new
I'm sure this topic comes up once in a while, but I don't recall seeing it posted before.
I had an auction that did quite well. The item sold for more than I thought it would. I have several more identical items. I have had one person email me stating if the high bidder didn't pay, he would gladly buy the item.
Another person is blatantly asking if I have another. (which I do).
Also, I often get people, either winning bidders, or even people not involved in the transaction, ask if I have related items for sale. Often I do.
I think I recall reading in an AuctionWatch newsletter a while ago that eBay wants to crack down on selling off-line, and if I recall, they were often posing as bidders to see if sellers would do it.
Is it really wrong to upsell an extra item? True, we wouldn't have known the bidder if it weren't for eBay, but it seems selfish on the part of eBay.
Obviously I would never go searching for people bidding on other seller's auction to offer them something for sale, but if they come to you, or...
Do you think it's ok to upsell extra items to the high bidder? What about outright selling to people who weren't the high bidder, or weren't even bidding at all and ask to buy something? Where do we draw the line.
posted on January 13, 2001 07:04:41 AM new
WOW... loaded question!!!
**Let's just keep this thread hangin' around for a couple of weeks, shall we!?!?
In the meantime, it has recently been clarified by eBay that off site transactions are against their rules ...and offers to sell or purchase outside of the eBay format are considered "SPAM".
However, eBay is also responsible for recently resetting preference notifications for millions of users to receive TELEMARKETING CALLS (telephone solicitation?) and DIRECT MAIL (more solicitation?) to "YES".....
It's hard to see where eBay is serious about protecting our PRIVACY when they're so slick about selling our real world contact information out the back door to various "partners".
SOoooo... I guess you could follow eBay's lead on this issue and do what you can get away with. Let's not kid ourselves, SELLERS are ready to SELL and BUYERS are lookin' to BUY. **If somebody is successful in obtaining your eMail address and making contact with an offer to purchase... MAKE THE SALE!
posted on January 13, 2001 07:25:17 AM new
I would go ahead and sell extra Items as long as ebay gets there fees for what you did have listed that sold they have no say in how you sell more.
Look at it like this some people sell cars on ebay when it comes time to trade in or sell there old car are they going check ebay rules and see if it against there rules to buy there new car in town at the local car dealer.
If someone come to your house and offers to buy the washing machine you have forsale in the news paper are you going to tell them you have to check with Ebay what extra fees you must charge.
Next time your set up at the local flea market will you be the one chargeing ebay fees for every item you sell.
Fee Avoidance can only be carried so far and its limit is to what you have listed this min that has bids on ebay not to what was listed or what could be listed.
posted on January 13, 2001 07:44:55 AM new
Spam is defined as unsolicited Email. If you welcomed those emails they are not spam. After that point there is nothing Ebay can do. You are engaging in a private trasaction that is none of Ebays business, regardless of what their rules may or may not say.
The only thing Ebay has on you is that you cannot use Ebay contact info. You didn't.
Any further attempt by them is a) A violation of your right to free speech. b) Restraint of free trade.
posted on January 13, 2001 08:20:47 AM new
I have seen several Ebay sellers that have links to their off site web pages where they have items for sale and they advertise it right in their Ebay auctions. How is this possible?
posted on January 13, 2001 08:35:24 AM newheyheyjan:
I think it depends on the way the link is worded in your auction listing.You cannot say for instance:
Visit my website for more of the same items
But you can say "visit my website" or "for more information visit my website".There is a line there and if you cross it you will get either auctions cancelled or a warning from eBay.If they of course catch you at it.
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
posted on January 13, 2001 08:51:04 AM new
thats what ebay says. there rules say that you can only have a link that says your website. not something that advertises more items at your site. the problem is that ebay doesnt police it or any of their other rules unless someone says something about it.
posted on January 13, 2001 08:52:16 AM new
I will see if I can find one of the 4 million current pages on eBay that breaks one of those rules that Vargas just posted......hang on give me a minute
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
Hello XXXX, Thank you for writing in with your question. I'm happy to
address this for you. I can certainly understand you concern in this matter, especially as a dealer in antiquities. The
section to which you are referring in the new Fee Avoidance policy, as not allowed, reads as follows: -offering to sell the item
outside of eBay to any of your bidders or another sellers' bidders in a Reserve Not Met listing Basically, we instituted this to
deter unscrupulous seller's from listing outrageous reserve prices so the price won't be met and then selling the item to
the highest bidder once the auction had closed, hence avoiding paying eBay's commission, the Final Value Fee. However, as
the policy reads, you as the seller are not allowed to contact the bidder's on an unsuccessful Reserve Price auction and make
an offer, however, it makes no mention of when the high bidder contacts you. So, in the scenario you provided, should the
high bidder contact you at the close of auction and inquire on the Reserve Price, you can still transact with that person,
as you have before. I hope this information has been helpful. Good luck to you and thank you for using eBay!
posted on January 13, 2001 09:18:07 AM new
Motive, Safeharbor doesn't even have the time or the ability to effectively police the most blatant violations, much less conduct such covert "sting operations" on small potatos sellers. (Possibly they might go after sellers they suspect of fee avoidance on a large scale.)
posted on January 13, 2001 09:21:47 AM new
and that is a problem. not to say that they arent busy but why put rules on the site and then not enforce them?
posted on January 13, 2001 09:34:15 AM new
Dottie........that is someone elses wording, not mine....LOL. I don't have the intestinal fortitude to do it! @¿@ So far, I have seen it in the various COLLECTIBLES auctions mostly. And I am not going to report it. I just do my own auctions & what everyone else does, is their business. I get lost in my own house, I sure don't need to take on any more problems! heehee So, luck to all & may the year 2001 be a fantastic selling year for you!
posted on January 13, 2001 09:45:15 AM new
IMHO the bottom line is this.
SH doesn't have the time or resources to chase down sellers that are selling to buyers who make the initial contact for an off site transaction. They also don't want to be fielding complaints for every off site transaction that takes place where a buyer gets ripped off.
The way it stands now, if a buyer complains about getting stiffed on a off site deal that they initiated, eBay can not only tell them they aren't protected by ebay's insurance etc, they can also tell them that it's actually against the rules.
Sooooooo, if a buyer contacts you first, then I would think it would be fairly safe to go ahead & sell whatever you want to them.
But, if you as the seller make the initial contact for an off site sale, and the buyer/bidder complains to SH, be prepared for a serious SH spanking.
posted on January 13, 2001 10:04:45 AM new
Mrjoker ........ Because some people don't appreciate getting "generous" offers from scum sucking bottom feeders.
Some people also have a zero tolerance for any form of spam, even if it comes from a seller who they've had dealings with in the past.
posted on January 13, 2001 10:06:27 AM newMrJoker: A Buyer might complain if a Seller contacts them to solicit sales of items other than what was being auctioned.
Last month, I bid on some books, then received an e-mail from a DIFFERENT Seller saying, in effect, "I see you bid on **** books on Ebay. I also sell **** books. Come to my website and buy from me."
I was a bit annoyed that my bid on Ebay opened me up to this kind of SPAM. Though, I have to admit at least this was targeted SPAM. Unlike the million others I get.....
posted on January 13, 2001 10:34:41 AM new
On the point of advertising a website on eBay. I have done it since I started over 2 years ago, and never once has anyone said anything. The only way anyone gets warned is if someone complains, and that is going to be rare.
BTW has eBay tightened up on the bid retraction policy? I contacted safeharbor with 2 users that put stupid reasons down for retracting, and they were suspended! I guess I had the last laugh!
posted on January 13, 2001 11:20:53 AM new
Wow, thanks for all the insight. This is really a grey area, so I suppose it's more a judgement call than anything.
I was thinking that if a buyer cantacts me, the seller, on their own, I should not have to feel guilty about selling to them.
My only hesitation is that if it weren't for eBay, I wouldn't have had that sale. I was afraid that one of these "buyers" could be someone from eBay doing a random spot check.
As mentioned earlier, eBay doesn't have enough time to ga after the large scale blatant offenders, let alone the more subtle "grey area" small time sellers.
I don't have my own web site, so if someone contacts me on their own, I think I'll sell to them. EBay will still get their listing and FV fees for the original item, so it would be selfish of them to tell us not to make any further sales.
I thought of a compromise, for anyone in doubt, offer to run a 3 day auction, with a vauge description, or as someone else suggested, list it with BIN. Personally I wouldn't bother, but for the totally paranoid....
posted on January 13, 2001 11:36:36 AM new
One thing some sellers should consider & perhaps be careful about, is a another seller who you compete with looking to screw you over with SH, and/or cyber cop wannabes.
Last week I know several sellers who were contacted via email with regards to making some off eBay deals. I was also contacted & none of the people contacting us were registered on eBay, at least not with the email addy they were using to send the inquiries.
The email I received went something like this.
"Hi, do you have any more of these items? I have had problems with eBay & avoid buying things on that site".
Huh?
As a seller I would at least like to know who this person was,[as in registered, which they were not] and have some sort of feedback to
judge their past transactions by. I'm not about to sit on a bunch of merchandise, which was selling VERY well, while waiting for 2-3 weeks to see if in fact their $$$$ even shows up.
My gut feeling was someone was "attempting" to play cyber cop. Then again, maybe I'm just paranoid?
posted on January 13, 2001 06:24:15 PM new
Two very good points. Yes, if the email addys were not available after the auction to the underbidders and watchers, that would be nice, but what about all those people who use their email address as the ID? EBay would have to make all those people pick new IDs, and I doubt that would go over very well, they would (rightly) claim people remeber their ID and do a search by seller sometimes to find their auctions.
Secondly, brace yourself, I once sold something to a previous high bidder. He asked me to contact him if I ever got more of a certain item. When I did, I emailed him, and he took his sweet time sending payment. He knew I said "No Checks," and the transaction from eBay was paid by money order. Now he figured there was no risk of negative feedback, so he took his time and wrote a check to save himself some money.
So, point being, there is less incentive to be prompt with payment if there's no risk of eBay feedback at stake.
posted on January 13, 2001 06:37:17 PM new
I don't see how eBay could have any problem with this at all- basically by listing you contracted to sell ONE item through ebay, if other folks want to buy second, third and 27th items, that's not for ebay to legislate, IF the buyer contacts the seller.
However, sellers contacting underbidders, whether it is their auction or others, is clearly spam.
Also note the ebay reps response. It specifically deals with RESERVE auctions, not no reserve auctions. Though ebay sometimes has been uneven in application of suspensions, clearly they have no intention of policing off site transactions, except those actions that violate spam policies (which upset the user base).
posted on January 13, 2001 06:44:19 PM new
I won't be quite so reluctant to try to sell if I'm contacted. I just thought eBay had a right to have a problem with it, since it was through them that the buyer and seller met. They miss out on revenue when deals are made outside of eBay.
Clearly, I would never contact a potential buyer, that is definatly a violation, and I think anyone doing that deserves to be suspended. But when the buyer contacts the seller, that's a different story. Only disadvantage for them is that they are not covered by eBay any more.
posted on January 13, 2001 07:04:51 PM new chum: BTW has eBay tightened up on the bid retraction policy? I contacted safeharbor with 2 users that put stupid reasons down for retracting, and they were suspended!
What were the reasons given? I've had few cancellations over the last two years and when I did is was for making a typo in the bid. I would like to know what yours was in case I encounter it so I know whether to contact safeharbor or not.
Off-site Selling
I get a lot of email every week from complete strangers, not my loyal customers, asking me to sell other dishes in the same pattern that I have listed on eBay. Since I don't have a shop, mall space or do antique shows, I don't want to sell my inventory off-eBay because I would be left with no inventory. So I am delighted that eBay posted the rules because I now respond to these requests with a politely worded email that I can't sell off ebay due to ebay rules. Ha!
If one of my loyal customers initiates contact and asks if I might have a specific item in my inventory or my personal collection and wants to buy it, I will probably have to evaluate whether there is significant collector demand for the item or not, which means I might list it on ebay for the customer or I might just sell directly. I see no problem with the selling off ebay when the item was never listed and is a one-of-a-kind item with no duplicates and the customer initiated the request.
posted on January 13, 2001 07:15:11 PM new
We all remember eBay is just a venue right?
So if someone seeing a transaction contacts me and wishes to do business with me what business is it of eBay's? They are not a sales rep that has a right to a fee for any sale that was facilitated through their site.
If you sell an item in the local classified ads and due to that transaction start a business relationship with someone and continue to sell to them the paper is not going to sue you and say you are avoiding fees by selling without taking out another classifies ad.
EBay does not have an exclusive agency beyond the item I listed in a specific auction.
