RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 08:53:43 AM
Hi all,
To anyone who would like to complete an outside the auction transaction and NOT run the risk of being suspended for fee avoidance policy violations, simply pay the fees.
Here's the link for making payments to your account:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?PayCouponShow
Simply include your account number, the amount of the sale(s) (this could be a monthly event) and the amount of the listing and FVF.
Send the check or money order to this address:
eBay, Inc.
P.O. Box 5700
Denver, CO 80217-5700
It's only fee avoidance if you DON'T pay the fees. If eBay doesn't like it, let them send back the check.
I'll be using this method from here on out.
Ray
[ edited by RM on Jan 14, 2001 09:13 AM ]
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abacaxi
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posted on January 14, 2001 08:59:54 AM
Or you could make a one-time payment on the CC of your choice and they'd go nuts figuring out what it's for.
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 09:06:05 AM
abacaxi,
Yes, of course that's also an option. 
I'm just thinking that, the better the paper trail, the easier it is to proove intent to pay. (in case eBay gets trigger happy with that suspension button).
If eBay cashes the check, it's NOT fee avoidance OR if ebay sends back the check, it's still NOT fee avoidance because there was an attempt to pay.
Ray
[ edited by RM on Jan 14, 2001 09:48 AM ]
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tabbinosity
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posted on January 14, 2001 09:45:37 AM
Do let us know how this works out!
In the past, I've written to ebaY and offered to pay FVF on an auction when I sold the item to the second-highest bidder or to someone who contacted me after the auction closed without the item selling, and was told there was no way to do it.
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 09:55:11 AM
tabbinosity,
Yes, you're quite right. In the past eBay has contended that accepting these payments was not possible within their current system.
However, now that eBay has made avoiding paying these fees a "federal" offense (so to speak) and will presumably suspend people for NOT paying them, I'd say eBay better get their system in order because to refuse payment and then suspend people for fee avoidance doesn't look like it's going to fly.
Ray
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tomwiii
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posted on January 14, 2001 10:09:15 AM
The only time such an idiotic situation would appear is if one of my regulars contacted me & said:
"Hey Tom, I got sniped on that audiobook that you had up last week called Canadians Say the Durndest Things!" (a hypothetical novel used here for illustrative purposes ONLY!). Do you have another copy & can I buy it for my sniped high bid, minus my usual discount?"
To which, what do I reply? "No, get lost, bozo??!!" Or do I sell it to him in the secure knowledge that the ONLY way eGreed will find out, is if HE tells them!
Or am I missing something here? Granted, I do have a few lights out on the ole marquee some days, but this whole bruhahaha seems a bit much to dodo about not much!
[ edited by tomwiii on Jan 14, 2001 10:12 AM ]
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nanastuff
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posted on January 14, 2001 10:16:37 AM
LMAO.....
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 10:30:50 AM
tomwiii,
I agree with you about the idiocy of this whole situation but just because eBay hasn't as yet put into effect any plan that will make it possible to track and log "attempts" to make outside deals and hence avoid fees, doesn't mean that those plans don't exist.
I'm suggesting a way around eBay's ridiculous fee avoidance policies for those who are interested. If the shoe doesn't fit, by all means, don't wear it.
Ray
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on January 14, 2001 10:36:57 AM
You know something? I ain't gonna worry about it.
I do not close auctions early to sell to someone outside an auction, thus avoiding fees. I am more than happy to have eBay collect their fees. If an item goes unsold at eBay and afterwards, if I have not relisted, someone contacts me, I will sell it. If I have relisted it, I direct them to the relisting.
eBay has dibs on the commission when the item is up for auction. Period.
They do not own me as a seller. They do not control my business.
As I said, I am more than happy to sell on eBay's site. I am more than happy to pay them their commission.
But that is where my responsibility to them ends.
In the past, when I had a post-auction sale, I tried to give them commission. they refused.
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 10:48:41 AM
RM: neat thread! *smile*
Actually, the problem with your solution to the "FEE AVOIDANCE" claim is that eBay has made it AGAINST THE RULES of the site to engage in any of the activities that would result in their due FEES not being paid within the confines of eBay's VENUE.
*sigh*
SOOOoo "Fee Avoidance" is not really the MOTIVE rather, is only a RESULT of the "UNSAFE" trading...
(what a joke, eh?)
- Dottie
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bkmunroe
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:07:02 AM
RM: I don't think your solution would work.
Let's say you have a $0 balance in your account and you make an off-Ebay deal that would've generated a $1 FVF. You send Ebay $1 and they'll put it in your account. You now have a $1 balance. You list 4 auctions with starting bids less than $10 and generate 4 25c insertion fees. These are deducted from your $1 balance and your balance is now $0. So, the $1 you paid for your off-Ebay deal really just ended up paying for your 4 auctions.
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:11:26 AM
Hi Dottie,
Yes, I agree that eBay would probably like to assume that "everything" applies within eBay's self written laws. "safety", "spam" "fee avoidance" the whole umbrella.
However, at the very least, how would eBay explain to the press and it's stockholders why it's suspending it's "open and honest" members for "fee avoidance" while at the same time refusing to accept payment? I would just love to see eBay turn an act of honesty (attempting to pay) into some kind of absurd violation of it's own policies. 
Who knows, maybe it's also site interferrence huh? After all, what if eBay has so many honest members sending money that it overloads their accounting dept. with all those unacceptable payments? LOL!
Absolute lunacy!
Ray
[ edited by RM on Jan 14, 2001 11:18 AM ]
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:16:58 AM
bkmunroe,
How eBay deals with the payment is eBay's problem. I don't care if they credit it to my account or deposit it in their bank. That's up to them.
Ray
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:19:58 AM
RM: Since the "clarification" on SPAM and off site deals was made, ANY TRADING that would result in the fees not being collected within the confines of eBays venue the way it is set up to collect their "fair share" would actually be a violation of the USER AGREEMENT.
So, just because members are willing to PAY for the fees that would have resulted from such "Spamming and Off Site Trades"... doesn't mean that they would not be Guilty of Violating the Terms of Use of the VENUE.
Sucks! but that's the way it is....
Us poor slow boiling frogs..... *sigh*
- Dottie
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:37:55 AM
LOL! Well Dottie, you "may" be right and that "might" be the "way it is", but when eBay starts suspending people and putting them out of business for these "offenses", there may well be courts and judges to contend with and then we'll see how strong this "venue of rules and policy" really is.
Ray
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igolf
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:43:24 AM
[ edited by igolf on Jan 14, 2001 08:59 PM ]
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libra63
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:43:44 AM
I guess I don't understand. How would ebay know if you sold it after the auction. What if you sold the unbid item to a friend? There has been about 8 auctions that I didn't get paid for and I didn't request a refund. I wonder how many other sellers have done that? Of course I don't have big ticket items either so if I sell it after the auction they still got their money.
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:59:38 AM
igolf: If the fine folks at eBay had FIRST prohibited links to our websites, THAT would surely have upset the user base and caused a mass exodus.
I think they are far more clever than that. *sigh*
- Dottie 
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 11:59:44 AM
igolf,
eBay has not banned links to websites "YET". There are lots of possible ways for eBay to crack down on ALL outside sales.
There are plenty more rules and policy changes to come.
Maybe, you see some kind of "pure" fee avoidance, but I'm not so sure eBay thinks that way.
At any rate, time will tell.
Ray
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 12:07:14 PM
We are all FROGS IN SLOWLY BOILING WATER....
- Dottie
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 12:36:44 PM
Getting back to the subject of paying eBay their fees voluntarily.
As tabbinosity correctly stated there is a history of eBay declining these payments based on the supposed inability to accept them BUT <-----big but, there is also a history of eBay accepting these payments. eBay did both. (not surprising huh?)
So, eBay already has set a precedent for allowing this kind of payment. Just wanted to make that clear.
Ray
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igolf
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posted on January 14, 2001 12:55:44 PM
[ edited by igolf on Jan 14, 2001 09:00 PM ]
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 01:38:18 PM
igolf: I communicate with eBay quite regularly.
Believe what you want.
- Dottie
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dottie
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posted on January 14, 2001 01:41:12 PM
Oh yes... and the "FROG" Thing....
If you put a frog in boiling water, it will realize that the water is too hot and immediately JUMP OUT.
If you put a frog in water and then slowly bring it to a boil, the Frog will not realize that the water is getting warmer... even TOO HOT... until it is TOO LATE!
What's eBay cookin' on the back burners?
FROGS!!!
- Dottie
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gravid
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posted on January 14, 2001 02:01:10 PM
When I list an item with eBay they do not become my exclusive agent. They have no right to any fees for sales I make as a result of my introduction to buyers who later choose to buy similar or other items from me. They can not chat the only a venue mantra and intrude upon my activities off their system. I am prepared to pursue that in court.
You are foolish to send money to someone who has dictated that you owe them in exchange for no service that no court would recognize. If you are doing so out of fear of being suspended then you have yielded to extortion.
If they wish to be in the position of a rep and have exclusive agency they will have to spell that out in the TOS in unmistakable terms. I doubt if many of you will accept that.
If you are avoiding fees ask yourself WHAT is the fee for? Have you promised that you will never sell outside the eBay system? Have you agreed that once someone buys from you through eBay that every transaction with that person in the future is due to eBay failitating the transaction.
Don't legitimize this action by accepting it.
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motive8
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posted on January 14, 2001 02:27:46 PM
I say what eBay doesn't know won't hurt them. We pay enough fees to eBay. I would like to thank them for the wonderful service they provide, but honestly, an extra few dollars they would have collected for insertion and FV would be much more helpful in my pocket than their.
I WOULD notice an extra $10 or $20, to eBay, it's a mere drop in the bucket.
If I don't tell them, and the buyer doesn't, why go ahead and tell them. Why give away more money than you need to?
I would go into more, but a lot of my personal feelings and possible actions were discussed in a previous thread I posted a couple of days ago.
BTW: I had several auctions end this afternoon. Some of the bidders already replied to my EOA. Guess where one of them lives? Alberta! Another one lives in Hawaii, now, where the heck is that, Australia?
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 02:49:16 PM
igolf wrote:
"Oh I get it...
It's not about what eBay is doing.. it's about what you think eBay may do in the future???"
BINGO!!!
Ray (ribbet, ribbet.........croak)
[ edited by RM on Jan 14, 2001 03:04 PM ]
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RM
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posted on January 14, 2001 03:12:54 PM
Like Dottie says, eBay is turning up the burner on all us froggies just one little harmless rule and one more insigificant policy change at a time. It's all for our own good and for our own safety mind you.
lets all meet here in a few months and see how the water is, shall we?
Ray
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on January 14, 2001 03:21:19 PM
To anyone who would like to complete an outside the auction transaction and NOT run the risk of being suspended for fee avoidance policy violations, simply pay the fees.
Assuming I agree with this, which auction site should I pay the fees to?
I sell the same items at different sites, so an off-auction request about additional available items could be based on one of many listings.
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gravid
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posted on January 14, 2001 06:43:21 PM
Well you should be paying eBay for the sales on those other sites also. What do you think you are doing avoiding fees by using other auctions?
Once you offer an item they have exclusive agency for the sale of those items.
I suppose next you will be trying to sneak a classified ad in the paper, or slink off to a flea market to do and end run around those fees. Have you no shame?
If I give an item to a real live auctioneer here in my town to sell and the next week sell something similar or something else to anyone that auctioneer can not call up and say "Hey why are you cheating me out of my fee?" We had an auction for one item and that is over. He has no guarentee I will use him again.
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