posted on January 14, 2001 09:32:28 AM new
I don't know much about bid shielding. I would like someone who knows to tell me if this seems like bid shielding.
Bidder 1) Bids $100 on Dec 15
Bidder 2) Bids $507 on Dec 16
Bidder 3) Bids $459 on Dec 16
Bidder 2) Retacts bid about an hour before auction ends. He leaves an explaination that he got a better offer from another seller.
Bidder 4) Bids $201 a few minutes before the auction ends. bringing the final bid up to $203.50. Bidder number 4 has nearly 1900 positives.
I am bidder number 3 and the seller accused me of bid shielding and shilling with number 2. I did neither. I don't know any of the other bidders.
If I were bid shielding shouldn't I have made my high bid the same as bidder number two?
posted on January 14, 2001 09:46:49 AM new
lovegoodies:
For starters, only a SELLER can shill ... that is the practice of bidding on your own auctions to drive the price up.
Bid shielding takes at least two IDs ... the planned winner will place a low bid of just over opening with a high proxy, usually higher than market value. The second (the shield) will place a bid above the proxy value of the first. This pulls the visible price to something really high.
This scares off other bidders, because they have to outbid the sky-high shielding bid. At the last moment the shield bidder cancels, and the bid drops to one increment over any bid that got placed before the bid shielding started.
The timing is wrong for bid shielding - you drop the shields minutes before the auction ends, not hours, if you are shielding.
If the seller makes a stink, challenge him to prove that you and bidder #2 even know each other.
posted on January 14, 2001 11:52:21 AM new
Some one answer this How could bidder 3 bid $459
If bidder 2 already made the high bid $507
the second bid of $507 would need to be retracted before the third lower bid of $459 could be made.
Next how could a fourth bidder come along and bid $201 if the high bid was still at $459 .
This bidding is not posible on ebay if your high bid is at $459 your next bid must be for more not less.
there for a bid of $201 on this item with a bid of $459 in the last hour would not work it would be an under bid.
I dont see bid shielding going on here at all no one can win an auction for $203 in the last hour when its high bid is already $459 in this case all the higher bids but the last would need to have been retracted before the last hour came not just one of the bids.
posted on January 14, 2001 12:29:44 PM new
Dman: A bidder only has beat the current high bid, he doesn't have to beat the hidden max.
When bidder #2 bids $507 he becomes the high bidder at $102.50.
Bidder #3 only has to bid at least $105 (1 increment over the current high bid). Of course, bidder #3's $459 bid would push #2's proxy up to $464.
If I were bid shielding shouldn't I have made my high bid the same as bidder number two?
No, they don't have to be the same. They don't even have to be close. #3 could have bid a million dollars and it still would have worked the same.
The timing is wrong for bid shielding - you drop the shields minutes before the auction ends, not hours, if you are shielding.
Retracting minutes before the end is more effective, but also more suspicious looking. Retracting an hour before the end is nearly as effective. After all, if a person finds the auction after #3 bid, but before #2 retracted they would have saw a high bid of $464 and that would have scared him away if he was willing to bid $400. The only people who would have been uneffected would be those who stumbled upon the auction in the last hour and the snipers that found the auction before the high bids were placed, put it their watch lists and came to the auction page in the closing minutes and never knew the bidding got as high as $464.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:19:53 PM new
The seller refused to answer my emails at first. Then when he did he said that he would sell to me but only at a higher price since I bid shielded.
The chair did go for a very low price and I wanted more than one. I told him I was willing to work with him. He quoted me a very good price for 3 chairs. I emailed my acceptance. He emailed back. I emailed and told him what I wanted. He has not emailed me back it has been three days.
Today it gets even stranger. I find an auction for information on where to purchase the chairs. The auction is listed by the person that retracted their bid. I wrote him and he was angry because the seller turned him to safeharbor for bid manipulation. He said that he will list the information until he gets an apology from the seller.
I plan to bid on the information if it is correct. It will save me hundreds of dollars for the chairs and I won't have to deal with the seller anymore.
I don't understand why the seller would turn the other bidder in for bid manipulation and not me. If he really thought we were working together he should have turned us both in. I think the chair went for a lower price than he wanted and he got angry.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:44:49 PM newI don't understand why the seller would turn the other bidder in for bid manipulation and not me. If he really thought we were working together he should have turned us both in. I think the chair went for a lower price than he wanted and he got angry.
The seller didn't have any proof that you did you something wrong. However, the bidder that retracted did do something wrong. He can't retract because he found it at a better price.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:53:33 PM new
Seller saw budding at 459+ until 1 hour before closeing, Then it closed at 203.50.
What a let down, looks like bid shielding to seller.
But if the retracting bidder was not colluding with any other then it really was not.
The auction certainly appears to have been damaged by the retraction anyway. You'll have to make your own choice, among the possible variations -
Sympathize with seller, paying bid price, or compromise price, or suggesting they relist and go through the auction again to reset "fair" price.
Be tough and try to insist seller make good on result per the rules of the game (can't really be forced).
If seller (rational or not) refuses to believe you are innocent it can be messy. If such is the case never again hearing from them could be a stroke of luck.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:05:26 PM new
I was very willing to work with the seller. The price it ended at was low and I was pretty surprised when I got the end of auction notice. I don't want any one to get cheated. I don't mind paying for what I want. I like a deal as mush as the next person, but I won't rip a seller off to get one.
He quoted me what I thought were some fair prices for three of the chairs and told me the methods of payment he would accept.
Now he won't return my emails.
I had other bidders contact me in the past few days to ask if I was having problems with the seller. Some of them had paid for but not gotten chairs that were promised for Christmas delivery. Others said that he would not respond to his emails.
Honestly I think I am lucky that he won't respond anymore. Hopefully I will be able to deal with the manufacturer and get what I need.
