posted on February 6, 2001 03:41:52 PM new
Blackthhorne, which makes Auction Assistant and Auction Assistant Pro, was bought by eBay (eGREEEEED!!!) and is now going to charge a monthly fee to obtain upgrades for eBay changes; if the software users don't subscribe, the software will soon be useless as it will not have any new features that eBay may introduce.
How much more can the smaller seller take? First fees go up, then restrictive rules re: trade are made, and now this! Combined with the postal fee increases, the smaller sellers will be disappearing from eBay (which was predicted some time ago by wise folks on this board, and seems to be what eBay wants).
Here is the e-mail I just received from Blackthorne:
Please read this important message.
I am pleased to announce some exciting news! In the next few weeks Blackthorne will be releasing major upgrades of our Auction Assistant (AA) products. We have been working very hard to add features users have been requesting, and we have made significant design improvements to make them more powerful, more reliable and easier to use. We're even changing the name to reflect the improvements and our tighter integration with the eBay site. AA Classic and AA Pro will now be called "eBay Seller's Assistant Basic" and "eBay Seller's Assistant Pro," respectively.
In addition, beginning with the new releases, the Blackthorne Customer Support team will be supplemented by eBay’s Customer Support team. This team has been trained by us and will allow us to offer around-the-clock email support 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Along with these improvements, we are changing the way we charge for our services. All new customers will be charged a flat monthly subscription fee of $4.99 for Seller’s Assistant Basic and $15.99 for Seller’s Assistant Pro. Charges will appear on subscribers’ eBay account. Subscribers will receive:
· Unlimited use of the products at a set monthly fee. There are no additional Seller’s Assistant fees no matter how many listings you create and manage. Please note that normal eBay fees will still apply, however.
· Free email customer support through Blackthorne and eBay.
· Free upgrades to the latest versions available, including regular major upgrades. Subscription charges will help support Blackthorne’s ongoing costs of developing program improvements, maintaining these programs, offering customer support and helping us provide you with better products and service.
To reward our current customers for their loyalty, all current customers will receive:
· A FREE major upgrade to the Blackthorne product you own
· A one-year free subscription to that product ($59.88 value for current AA Classic users, $191.88 value for current AA Pro users) and
· Complimentary major and minor product upgrades for the duration of the subscription
To take advantage of this offer, you will simply need to complete a one-time registration by March 31, 2001 to enable your subscription. Your current Auction Assistant software will continue to work just as before, though it will not be upgraded to support new eBay features. Although the special offer is optional, we think you’ll want to take advantage of it in order to keep pace with the major enhancements that we have added and will continue to add in the future.
In the next few weeks, we’ll provide more details on how to sign up for the offer and the new features in the upgraded versions. We have also created a new discussion group called “Sellers Assistant Release” at http://www.blackthornesw.com/discus/index.html. If you have any questions or comments on these new changes, please feel free to post them there and I will try to respond to them as quickly as possible.
Thanks, John
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This message is being generated by an automailer. Please do not respond to this email. Direct all inquiries to our discussion board at http://www.blackthornesw.com/discus/index.html or to [email protected]
posted on February 6, 2001 03:53:59 PM new
I hope to H*ll I have a full copy of my purchase agreement because I thought it said upgrades and support WERE FREE! I guess that was why they changed the name. THIS STINKS as bad as Bill Clinton's tactics. I'd love to see a class action lawsuit against these pirates.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:05:26 PM new
Check out Invenna's Auction Amigo. You can import your AA data to it. You can download it for free & use it for a month to see if it works for your needs. I believe there is a one-time fee of approx $40 if you want to keep it after the 30 days.
I've seen eBay ads created with Blackthorne & they look pretty similar to Auction Amigo ads.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:29:35 PM new
rdee - it has already happened - I couldn't figure out why they (blackthorne) hadn't updated the software yet to accomodate BIN; now I know why!
It will be a frosty friday before I spend a monthly subscription fee for a software I already payed for and who have always made changes to keep up with eBay and offered them free.
To anyone who already owns the software - just use it to develop the ad, copy the html code created, and use something like AuctionWatch's or GOTO's auction submition/tracking programs to do the rest. Just use Auction Assistant to create the HTML. That is what I am going to do!
EBay is making a BIG mistake with this move; there is to much good software and listing sites for this stupid move to work. At some point in time, greed comes back to bite the greedy one in the butt! This will be one of those times, I hope.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:30:15 PM new
"Why did you go to a monthly charge?
It has always been our policy that minor and intermediate upgrades would be free, but major upgrades would incur a charge. The new versions are both major upgrades and if we continued with the traditional software upgrade model, we would have charged for this upgrade."
Neither of these seems like major upgrades to me. These are things that are expected to keep up with eBay. They are eBay for the sake of mercy. Why is it that other programs such as: ePoster,AuctionSubmit, and AuctionAmigo have ran for months with all of the features they mentioned were "major" upgrades? 2 category, buy now, etc. Those are "major" upgrades? Hmmm...
How many people here made the choice to go with Blackthorne because it was one price for life? Would you have purchased a different software or used another site if you had known this was coming? I think it's unfair to sell based on one price, and then change the pricing.
I'm pretty sure they said that you got free updates for life. That means adding these features for free. Neither of these 2 products will be new products with those paltry things they are adding.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:31:37 PM new
Wow, I'd be pretty ticked (to say the least) if I paid IN FULL, UPFRONT for Blackthorne software. Just when you think ebay can't get any more greedy.
I pay $35 a year to use AuctionPoster and they are WONDERFUL. Free upgrades (and they are constantly upgrading to keep up with ebay's latest and greatest) and they have some very sharp templates. They also have a free image hosting service. I also couldn't be happier with their support.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:57:04 PM new
Blackthorne has changed his name to CLINTON
Count your silverware before you list it with Auction Assistant.
One good thing from this morass...I am hearing of the other auction services and will certainly check them out....BUT....whaddyawannabet......ebay finds a way to keep them from being used effectively?
posted on February 6, 2001 05:09:38 PM new
Folks you're paying an arm and a leg for bells and whistles. You can learn HTML in a few hours and do your own ads. It's easy.
Auction Amigo, BTW, used to be "free" too. Arg. When I see the word "free" any more, I just run the other way.
The worst part about it is not the gouging on prices, but the fact that they think auction sellers are sheep. It's downright insulting. Many of us are not sheep.
posted on February 6, 2001 05:23:53 PM new
HTML aint the problem. I did that long before AA came along. It is the convenience of it that allows you to do all the things required to list in bulk, quickly and to manage your auctions and keep records.
BLACKTHORNE sold out to ebay and now we have this. I will check out other services.
posted on February 6, 2001 06:40:02 PM new
rdee, you are right. I am just so frustrated by the so-called "free programs." It really does take an effort on the customer's part to learn to use it. Then the vendor adds fees. It really isn't fair. I've developed my own mail merge in WordPerfect for sending out EOA notices, and a database in MS Works for tracking auctions. It's not perfect, sort of cumbersome to use, but at least I don't have to worry about someone charging me for it. I sell a few auction management tools at eBay and I have never charged for an upgrade in over three years. Just today I got an email from somebody who told me they've been using my program for two years. I sent them the latest version. What Auction Amigo, Blackthorne and others did really bugs me. A buyer pays you once, they shouldn't have to pay again if the program needs updating.
posted on February 6, 2001 06:41:38 PM new
I do use eBay's Mr. Lister. It's their free bulk uploader and it works well. (If you can call a program that's been in beta for over a year "working well." )
posted on February 6, 2001 07:56:18 PM new
Yes, it is not the html, because I've been doing that since 1993. It is just convenient to use AA - Plus, it makes notifying customers, and leaving feedback a very easy process.
I suppose the good news out of this is that the old version will still work. While it may not be upgraded to use all the bells and whistles, you can still manage your auctions (for now at least) with it. Of course, that could change, and they could claim that they no longer support the older copy. It certainly is not worth the money to me to pay a monthly fee, I will look elsewhere if I can no longer use this program.
Anyway, those extra features (and you know BIN will cost money in the next few weeks or months) I really don't use, not worth the cost...
posted on February 6, 2001 08:32:52 PM new
Hi Alan,
I don't think it will be very long before the old version is useless for anything more than generating html. Any changes to eBay will not be supported any longer with the "old" AAClassic and AAPro, which is usually much more than just Bells and Whistles.
If eBay changes any of their programming, we may not be able to list through AA at all; we used to be able to have those revisions downloaded automatically everytime we logged on with AA.
Just think of the poor folks who recently spent $199.00 on AAPro, only to find out that their program will soon be useless for listing and tracking, and they will need to purchase the new upgrade through a monthly subscription fee.
When most software companies announce updates, usually we can keep using the old version for as long as it serves our needs (I still have some very old software that I really like on my computer).
With AA it is different - they are saying upgrade or be left with a useless piece of software that will no longer be supported. That is my interpretation from what I have read.
Check out the discussion board on the Blackthorne site, especially the Sellers Assistant Release topic. Some very angry folks there!
posted on February 6, 2001 08:40:37 PM new
Somehow I think as Blackthorne counts his money he does give diddley squat what they say on the discussion boards.
For the record, this is AMERICA and I believe in people making money if they have something people want. Blackthorne did and I loved his product and paid the price.
But I don't believe in underhanded dirty slimy tactics like this. Take it to the bank, the AA programs we paid will next to useless in a matter of months if not weeks unless we pay the monthly fee to the creeps. This is the cyber version of the mob of hoodlums who made you pay through the nose to keep from getting your store window smashed.
posted on February 6, 2001 08:41:33 PM new
Don't feel bad. When I first purchased Ebud, which I might add is a great auction tracking program and why I decided to buy it, I was told unpgrades/updates would be free and that my purchase price was a one time payment. Next thing I know...they guy who made Ebud sells it and the agreement when the purchase was made is now null and void. The company that bought Ebud gave it's current users 2 free years before fees kick in. Just when they get ya totally hooked......
posted on February 6, 2001 08:47:19 PM new
I have a question for all of you who seem to know so much more than I about the listing process. I have seen auctions with Blackthorne, and they look nice, but I am happy with my AW autions.I started using them and do admit,I don't use any other features other than listing. I like it for the ability to schedule days in advance.What do the rest of you like and use in other programs that I am missing. I'm sure it's taking me more time than necessary to list and complete my sales, but I only list about 50 auctions a week.I would appreciate any info on what programs you use and why you like them. Remember, I am very computer challenged! thanks!
EBay's own support staff will be supporting and answering user questions for the sofware(*GULP*)
I wonder how long before you will have to use eBay's image services with this product? I can see the wheels turning in their greedy little eBay heads ....$ka-ching$ ...$ka-ching$ ...$Ka-ching$...
posted on February 6, 2001 08:52:31 PM new
I found this post & thought some of you might enjoy it.
eBay and Blackthorne by Ginzu....
Now, eBay Sellers can have FREE eBay Customer Service with their Monthly Fee!
Yes, the same eBAy employees, famous for their ability to tell the truth accurately, consistently, and in a timely manner are
now supporting Blackthorne!
What would YOU pay for all this? $500.00? a year? $1000.00? Don't answer yet!
With this offer, you get representatives that may tell some of the truth, all of the time. Or, you can get the upgraded version, where
you get all of the truth, some of the time.
Now what would you pay? $10,000.00? 20,000.00? But WAIT!
With the NEW, IMPROVED Blackthorne-eBay Customer Support, you can CHOOSE your OPTIONS! Choose from a vast library of
lies of omission, outright fabrications, uninformed lies, unintentional lies, half-truths, and the parsed version of truth, as seen used by Famous Politicians on TV!
But wait! There's more! You also get half-baked rumors and innuendos! Now what
would you pay?
Don't write that check yet, there's more!
You also get a FREE ambiguity with every prevarication! But only if you act NOW! And all of this is FREE for only $14.95 a month!
Slightly higher in Canada. Please consult your physician. Your mileage may vary. May cause pregnancy in women. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Close cover before striking. Not to be used as a flotation device. Subject to terms and agreements we haven't made up yet. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Void where prohibited, licensed, or regulated. Cash value 1/20 of one cent.
posted on February 6, 2001 09:28:28 PM new
well......
You don't necessarily need one program to do everything. I use two...
For posting, AuctionSubmit has always been just fine for me. It's relatively low tech (I do my own HTML, thank you), but it works, and they keep it up to date. You enter your auctions offline and then go online and start them all at once. Once auctions are over, it sorts them into sold and unsold and lets you easily relist the unsold ones, etc. www.auctionsubmit.com
AW has added many nifty features to their auction management pages that make them worth a close look. IMHO they need a fast internet connection to make them comfortable to use.
For post-sale management (the important part), I use A.I.D. (Auction Information Database), from epigroove software (www.epigrove.com). This imports your closed auctions (automatically), sends out emails on command (from templates you design), and just generally tracks status of items. It is not free, but the price is pretty reasonable and it's a low footprint compared to some of those other programs.
posted on February 6, 2001 09:36:01 PM newbeadkat:
The programs mentioned help manage your auctions by doing such things as tracking and storing your current and past listings, your item cost, inventory, shipping charged and actual shipping cost, gross profit ($ & %), most profitable categories, customer address & email and payment info. They also let you create customized listing templates so most of your information is filled in ahead of time when you go to list. Plus they allow you to keep track of who had paid & who has not, when you shipped and whether feedback has been left. Feedback can be left from a list of your favorite comments right from the program without going through eBay. Emails can be sent without looking up the customer's email--the program extracts it from eBay & records it for you. Your standard emails can be saved in template form--when it is time to send them, all the info (item #, total due, etc.)is filled in automatically for you. The program I use also allows you to track your bids in a similar manner. I'm sure all these programs vary to some degree, but such functions really can save you lots of time. (I was writing out a lot of stuff by hand before and spending lots of time manually looking up emails & leaving feedback.)
posted on February 6, 2001 10:09:07 PM new
I'm a Blackthorne user, and I'm not amused.
If you're looking for alternatives, consider AuctionWatch's Auction Manager. It's currently free, and is one of the more full featured web-based (as opposed to PC-based software) auction management systems.
Five other web-based auction management systems were evaluated by Online Auction Users Association last month-- you can read the report here:
OAUA will be evaluating the most popular PC-based auction management systems (there are at least 18 of them, including many I'd not heard of until we started this project) in the next two months.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:34:06 AM new
I bought the AA program outright, and was promised "free upgrades." Of course that was way before Ebay got involved.
But recently, because I am always trying to find new ways to make my ads more attractive, I discovered I could create my ads in FrontPage, and produce an ad that blows away, anything AA could conceive of.
I don't need AA to do submissions, as I just don't use eBay at such a volume that I can't either do it manually or use any of the free submission programs, so I think this is a BIG BOO BOO by Blackthorne!
Someone said to us Go-To, but I just read this morning that they are going to start charging $19.95 a month for their service - so that isn't an option in my opinion, particularly since I would only use it for eBay, since Yahoo is now terminal.
I think this is as major a boo boo, as Yahoo made when they decided to charge listing fees instead of FVF.
I suppose eBay has gotten away with their greed so long, they expect they can continue to gouge the seller - because that is the only person who gets hurt by their greed.
eBay users might take note of the real revolt Yahoo users have accomplished, and if such was done to eBay, I believe they are greedy enough to back off and reconsider some of their charges.
There has never been a true revolt at eBay, there is one at Yahoo, since the 10th of Jan, when they announced listing fees instead of the FVF which most would have paid, their listings are down almost 70%...check out this thread on the Yahoo board.
Think it is time eBay Sellers bite the bullet for a little while, and stand firm against eBay and if eBay Sellers can make the impact at eBay that Yahoo Sellers have, eBay will back off – I think eBay is too greedy to lose at the rate Yahoo is now experiencing, plus the PR could be horrid for their stock.
The fact is, that GREED is what keeps eBay Sellers kissing eBay’s feet regardless of what eBay does to them. A true revolt cost the seller, and most won’t pay the price, so eBay is forever free to do as it wishes, and the only thing the sellers do is come to AW and other such boards and cry and complain.
You can only be used and abused when you allow it!
posted on February 7, 2001 11:44:49 AM new
Hi Nancy:
We haven't finalized the list of software management programs we will evaluate yet. There are too many to do them all-- many are small operations that will likely die on the vine this year as the online auction industry shakes out.
We will do hands-on trials on the most popular and well-known:
Auctiva's ePoster and eBud
Invenna's AuctionAmigo
Blackthorne's Auction Assistant Pro (renamed)
and probably 3 or 4 others.
Evaluations to start later this month, with a report out around May. Sorry we can't have this done sooner, but it takes time to have multiple reviewers properly evaluate these things by purchasing them and listing multiple auctions, querying customer service, and so on.
Look for all of the auction management companies to be charging for thier products and services eventually- they are in business to make money, after all.
Frequent sellers might do best with a company that charges a flat fee per month (like Blackthorne, or GoTo), while occasional sellers might do best with a company that charges per listing (like AuctionWorks). Not sure what pricing structure AuctionWatch will come up with, but I'd expect it soon, and they might be a good choice as well.
posted on February 7, 2001 12:52:14 PM new
I hope they don't start this baloney with Mr. Lister. They finally got the bugs out of it. I use my own database and create my own HTML templates.
I think this is part of the move to subscriber fees for all software. I frankly find this to be a big pain. I don't mind paying for a worthwhile upgrade, but that's not usually what most software updates are all about. Most commonly used software is about the same as it was years ago and the majority of the population doesn't need or want more.
posted on February 7, 2001 01:05:25 PM new
Software companies know they can't get away with charging users just for bug fixes, so they bundle the fixes with some new "features" that everybody supposedly wants, and voila...
A new release!!!
Of course, there will be a charge for this- not the bug fixes, mind you, but the improved "functionality" that is being provided with their latest and greatest.
Which, by the way, will include a whole host of new bugs, requiring another "upgrade", with the associated bug fixes and new features...
posted on February 7, 2001 01:06:44 PM new
While I don't like the way eBay/Blackthorne transitioned from a one-time purchase to a monthly fee (they should work out some sort of grandfather clause for existing customers who purchased with assurances that upgrades and support were included), in fairness to auction management companies- these software packages are very specialized. And because eBay and other sites change so frequently, there is a significant investment in keeping the software up to date. And in support.
So it's a bit different than most software packages that require fewer (if any) upgrades. Companies that charge a one time fee of $20 or $30 cannot support the user for several years on that amount-- they depend on new users to keep the company afloat. An auction management pyramid scheme, so to speak. Not a good business model.
I expect that all of the auction management software companies will shift to a monthly fee structure this year, or die. And all the web-based auction management systems will become fee-based; either a flat monthly fee (GoTo), or a per listing fee (Andale, AuctionWorks, ManageAuction). The remaining free services (AuctionFlow and AuctionWatch) will follow suit.
