posted on February 7, 2001 08:05:11 PM new
Hi All,
I've been reading the threads of late. There is no way that ebay will ever make selling easier for small sellers or even large ones. It only chases $$ and features to get it's stock price up.
We need an online sellers co-op auction site.
Non-profit, non-saleable, one member one vote, and non-exclusive.
Let's share some ideas and talk to each other before we don't have this option?
Email me or check out the other co-op threads here on AW or other message boards.
posted on February 7, 2001 08:31:33 PM new
NO everyone hasn't lost interest already it is quiet on the ezboard for sure but there is alot of background work and research happening as well.
There is alot of Research and work needs to be done that you cant see happening on the boards Till its actually completed so inless new people are brought into the discussion the board will seem to be in a lull from time to time.
Many people who go there have expressed most of there idea's on that board already.
The board Jamie has set up has had a few new additions and Idea daily and some newly added areas of interest I think you will find the media on this subject interesting.
other message boards are still hoping on this subject as well.
but we really do need people promoteing the boards get the Idea out to the thousand and thousands that havent heard yet.
I Started to wonder the samething when I started seeing the ezboard Get quiet so I sent out a few email to see if I could cover the blind spots and have been assured lulls can be exspected and this is still very alive and getting more interest then I ever thought it would see at this point seems there are alot of sellers out there tired of many thing in the auction world for many reasons and deeply interested in this.
posted on February 7, 2001 09:04:02 PM new
There are lots of coops on line from dealers that have been in the biz for years. I have been shooping on them for a few years. They mostly are a bust though for most sellers. There is a hell of a lot of work in a normal website just bring the people there is a job in if itself. There is no way a coop could charge enough to pay for all the advertising they need to drive people to the site on a steady basis. That is why most people don't know of them now.
posted on February 8, 2001 10:33:23 AM new
Hi All,
"That's all well and good, but building one will take a lot of work. Who do you suppose will do it?"
Good question. There are several themes of what how a co-op should be built. I advocate the one that involves us paying initiation fees and then fees to use the service.
We will have to HIRE the best talent we can get. Sure, some co-op members will be able to help and even work for the site but the key areas will have to be manned by TALENTED people.
I don't think a tiny co-op will work frankly. We have to really come up with something that will have some encouraging results quickly.
From what I've seen the selling community has a short attention span. I don't mean that as an insult, just a thought.
The fact is the word needs to be spread and the ideas need to be talked about. Here on AW and on the message boards.
I don't expect thousands to be on board for the start but I bet most of the folks posting negative comments will be listing on the co-op before you can blink once it gets up.
So go to our board and share your thoughts and ideas. We can't post the url here but it's around or you can email me or anyone else who posts on this thread.
posted on February 8, 2001 01:28:39 PM new
Canvid13, you seem like a nice guy/gal, but I will tell you what is holding me back. If you are the same canvid13 that is on ebay you have 31 negatives and 21 neutrals on 447 feedback. Obviously, the good outweighs the bad, but that is a pretty bad feedback ratio and averages out to be over 5% negatives.
That is not someone who I want representing me. Granted, you have to give a little leeway for unreasonable buyers and sellers, but what you have is very excessive. You are also a retalitory negger, one of the worst kind of people on ebay.
posted on February 8, 2001 02:04:10 PM new
Hi Meya,
I sent you the url. Email me again if you didn't get it.
Snowy Days: One of the reasons you don't see me having any auctions up for sale on Ebay is I deplore their feedback system. The FB system is horrid. I have 501 ratings btw. I also have 1748 on Amazon with 4.7/5 rating.
And I am not representing anyone.
If a co-op will work it won't be because of one person. I am happy to work towards the goal of building a co-op. Hopefully you will be too at some point.
It's not about me or any one person. It's about sellers and bidders as a whole.
If you want to get involved and lead by all means come aboard. I'm quite happy to pull back and let some other folks get things moving!
posted on February 9, 2001 08:41:28 AM new
Hello Canvid,
I just looked at your feedback record on eBay and some of your responses to those who left you negatives.
As you know from my previous posts I am not interested in a co-op at this time. But if I were I would be raising the same objections as SnowdyDays to your leading any effort to organize a co-op.
You consistently retaliate within hours of getting a negative. It appears that you watch your rating like a hawk for any downward change.
Many of the negatives you have received indicate you don't pay for items you have won. But as a leader of a co-op you will be expected to solve this very problem?
Many other negatives and neutrals indicate that you are slow in shipping or don't ship at all. But as a leader of a co-op you will be expected to promulgate a code of acceptable behaviour on the part of sellers?
Many of your retaliatory comments indicate that the other party never emailed you despite their own comments in your feedback profile. And we see in this topic that there is very likely some truth to to the assertion that you don't answer emails.
I suggest you step aside immediately. Your continued presence is only going to hurt the slim chances any co-operative has of being formed. Much less succeeding.
posted on February 9, 2001 09:23:57 AM new
A co-op sounds very good! This is something I would be willing to invest some money and time in BUT!!!! The person put in charge would have to be honest (Are there any honest people left in this stick it to you greedy world?) Second you would need to be able to pull alot of people together and get them to invest their time and money (That will be hard to do in this I watch out for number one world.) You would have to make up rules that everone would agree on (Try doing that. If you can then you need to be satting in the whitehouse.) The chance of this getting off the ground is slim and if it does the chance of it flying are slimmer. Dont give up just look at it as a large wall to get over and get to work. (I guess I am just to negitave.) GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL.
So far we have had two people step forward and try to move the coop concept forward.
Suggestions were made that twinsoft remove himself for comments and conflicts with other posters.
Now it is being suggested that canvid step aside because of feedback related issues.
So I have to ask, who then ??? Is there a perfect person out there that has the drive and motivation to make this thing happen, yet has the background and attitude that will survive the criticism and scrutiny of all the posters?
posted on February 9, 2001 10:43:10 AM new
Hi All,
I'm really not interested in leading anyone. And anyone who wants to particpate in a co-op shouldn't be into leadership.
I will not go into a long discussion about feedback at this time. If it's that important to you then please email me or phone.
I am not the issue.
In a year or two most of you won't even remember me other than someone who helped get this off of the ground.
A co-op is run by all of us. And many of us will have different styles and opinions. I think the goal is to try and find common ground.
Frankly I don't represent anyone. I may be more motivated than some of you about the merits of having a co-op but don't you think deep down that it would truly be tragic if we don't get this off of the ground?
How many more times will you let ebay raise fees and other sites slap you around before you see this?
A one member one vote co-op is about working together.
Let's try and do this.
Thanks and check out our message board. You can email just about anyone on the board for the url.
posted on February 9, 2001 10:57:52 AM new
Unless some individual or group of investors who would be interested has very deep pockets the whole idea is doomed from the start. Plus all the planning and know-how that would be necessary even to give it half a chance. I hate to be a wet blanket, but...
posted on February 9, 2001 11:04:51 AM new
Wet Blanket: "Unless some individual or group of investors who would be interested has very deep pockets the whole idea is doomed from the start. Plus all the planning and know-how that would be necessary even to give it half a chance. I hate to be a wet blanket, but..."
Are you stating this as fact or your opinion? I know your handle is loose cannon, but mayber for this thread you should use a slow fuse?(G)
Are you saying that you are unwilling to even look at this option and really prefer the status quo?
Perhaps if you give some thought as to how to make this happen you may be pleasantly surprised?
We don't need investors. We need members who are willing to commit a small amount of money and time to help make this come to be.
Our initial estimates show that with very modest fees we could have start up funds of 50-100K with 25-35K per month revenues which should be more than enough to start to run a very nice, well supported site.
posted on February 9, 2001 11:25:43 AM new"Suggestions were made that twinsoft remove himself for comments and conflicts with other posters."
MrJim, I don't know where you get your information, but I am definitely still "on the case." As always, I intend to continue raising the possibility of a co-op as an alternative to eBay.
Some folke tried to elevate me to the position of "leader." I am not interested in leading any movement. I think that education regarding a co-op is more important. For starters, interested persons can use their dictionary to look up the meaning of the word, "cooperate."
posted on February 9, 2001 11:39:00 AM new
This poster has watched all this.
And has seen one man in question censor and ban others, only because they do not agree.
And the other man in question is questioned about his feedback.
What is worse? Does it matter that one man attepts to silence objections by banning and censorship? Or does it matter more that the other man is emotional when dealing with customers?
Both men claim no desire to lead.
One board is free to all, the other is free if you agree with the host.
posted on February 9, 2001 11:50:10 AM newco-op-er-atev.i.[i] [i]us, pp. of cooperari, to work together; L.co- with + operari, to work <opus, operis, work] 1. to act or work together with another or others for a common purpose.
fu-til-i-tyn [FUTILITIES (-tiz)], [L. futilitas < futilis; see FUTILE], 1. the quality of being useless or ineffectual.
posted on February 9, 2001 12:11:55 PM new
AuctionWatch's eBay Outlook is not the place to discuss what may have happened on other message boards. I will say, in response to WataruMurofushi's post, that we did have a lot of trouble with trolls creating bogus IDs and signing on solely for the purpose of disruption.
Loosecannon, you may see a sellers co-op as a futile effort. I do not think it is futile. I think it is an inevitablitly. We have succeeded in getting the idea out about a co-op. Eventually enough people will see the problems of selling at eBay and the so-called "free" sites and a co-op will happen. Until then, eBay sellers will remain at the mercy of eBay, Yahoo, Paypal, Auction Assistant, eBud, etc., and their dishonest and unbridled fee increases. Only by banding together can eBay sellers protect their own interests.
A few people are sincerely interested in the idea of a co-op. Discussions continue at AuctionWatch, OTWA and the Million Auction March, representing thousands of eBay sellers. A huge number of eBay sellers are ambivalent and lethargic. A small but vocal minority are trolls who amuse themselves by heckling the work of others.
posted on February 9, 2001 12:21:24 PM new
twinsoft
I sincerely hope you are not referring to me as a troll. FWIW, I don't even know the URL's to any of those discussion sites except for the ezboard one that you started, and I never posted there either.
I don't think any of my posts on this subject here at AW have been trollish in nature either. Am I opposed to the idea of a co-op? Of course not. Do I think it'll ever get off the drawing board? No. So prove me wrong and I'll eat crow.
I think that's about all I have to say on the matter.
posted on February 9, 2001 12:57:33 PM new
I have a suggestion for all about this Coop thingie. First I'll say I agree with LooseCannon completely about its viability. I don't think it has any. I also agree with LooseCannon about the eating crow part if it works. BUT-
This coop needs a single person that is at its head initially that has absolutely nothing to gain or lose through it, that is, someone who neither sells nor buys on online auctions, and has had similar experience setting up coop(s), particularly online. Online auction experience would probably not be necessary in the startup, but the ability to work with diverse groups of people, and unite them behind a coherent plan would. I believe that if you have one person as the organizing entitiy, and that person has the expertise and experience at all phases of this specifically, then you might have a chance. And you would probably have to pay for that expertise, maybe dearly.
posted on February 9, 2001 01:10:29 PM new
Well, at least we're talking. It may not be on topic or coherant but we're talking.
Now let's see if we can try and talk about a co-op.
And for those of you who think it will never work why are you posting?? Not that I'm suggesting you don't.
Even if you think that it has no chance I don't think that any of you wouldn't want it to happen if it could?
See why not risk some imagination and tell us what you want in a co-op?
COMMON GROUND
loosecannon
posted on February 9, 2001 11:50:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
co-op-er-ate v.i.[i] [i]us, pp. of cooperari, to work together; L.co- with + operari, to work <opus, operis, work] 1. to act or work together with another or others for a common purpose.
posted on February 9, 2001 01:10:51 PM new
LC, I'm not referring to you. WataruMurofushi is Ross (r0ss) posting under a phony ID. He's banned from AW for life, and from my message board as well. Maybe you can figure out why.
Some folks would like to see me as a "leader" of some movement. They want a co-op handed to them on a silver platter, and also demand the luxury of criticizing those doing the work. It was never my intention to do the work singlehandedly, and I will not do so now. I am happy to discuss the idea with others.
Before the split with Jamie, we had ToyRanch, Magazine_Guy and Rosalinda working with us. Those people represent the interests of thousands of eBay sellers. Unfortunately, not everyone was able to work together cooperatively. One former supporter left in a huff, and succeeding (for the second time) in fracturing the efforts of the co-op discussion group. I do not claim total innocence in what happened. None of us has time to waste catering to whiners who would rather criticize then help.
posted on February 9, 2001 03:17:22 PM new
I posted what I would want in a co-op on another thread here as you all well know.
My email address is freely available to all of you who would care to explain to me what the benefits of joining a co-op would be for me personally as a small time seller and a rather more intense full time collector.
So far, no one has taken me up on any of the questions, observations or opinions I've raised other than to say this or that sounds like a good idea. No one has suggested a single idea about how to make a co-op address my needs as a seller. And it seems that what started as a discussion of a co-op geared to buyer and seller alike is now a seller co-op only.
You can't even engage me in a discourse about legitimate questions I've raised. But you continue to ask for folks to part with hard earned money or precious time without any semblance of a business plan or organization.
I know. Come to another board where the real discussion is.
I think not. The very essence of a co-op is co-operation, mutual interest and mutual respect for all members. If proponents of this co-op idea can't even agree on how to get it off the ground then how can we expect agreement on issues that arise later?
If you fly off to your own boards with a request that folks chose sides then how do you think the folks who might be interested are viewing you?
It looks like a co-op recruiting war between two (or possibly more) folks. No one is interested in being part of the collateral damage.
posted on February 9, 2001 03:30:53 PM new
Coda: Your comments are all well and fine but the fact is that AW's guidelines limit the nature of certain discussions.
If you wish to start a thread " HOW TO CONVINCE CODASAURUS ABOUT THE MERITS OF AN ONLINE CO-OP AUCTION HOUSE" I would be glad to try and convince you.
Whether you agree with anyone or not is not my question to you, it's the merits of your intentions. Instead of telling us why it won't work or why this isn't for you, why not tell us what you would do if you were running the co-op or what you would want?
You can't build from Negativity. Let's try and see what we CAN do and take it from there.
After all, you can always have the alternative to building a Co-op and the extra fees, rules, and uncertainty that come with it.
The fact is that you, I, and others won't matter in the end. What will matter is whether we can create a better place to build our businesses. No one person is going to make or break this movement.
And this is not just a seller movement. You have to remember that most sellers are also bidders!
