Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 08:32:43 AM
Do you think eBay pays more for advertising than AOL? Do you think it cost eBay more to host your items than it cost your ISP to keep you connected? Sellers pay $10 to $20/mo to their ISP and $100 to $500 to eBay. These sellers were born to be victims.
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bogalucy
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posted on February 8, 2001 08:48:26 AM
????
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 08:54:05 AM
Spreeland,
yes it OBVIOUSLY costs ebay more. What a silly question on your part. Perhaps you should spend more time doing research and then come back here.
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Pocono
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:02:23 AM
I just had a nauseating thought...
Millions and millions of free CDs stuffing my mailbox with "Get 500 hours of eBay free" all over them...
arrrrrrrrrgggggggg!!!!!
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RB
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:06:04 AM
"Millions and millions of free CDs stuffing my mailbox with "Get 500 hours of eBay free" all over them..."
Noooooooooo! Make them 3.5" floppies. At least I can reformat them and use them for scratch disks. Those CD's are only good for playing Torture Frisbee (kinda like all of those illegal VCD's listed on eBay), and it's too damn cold up here to play that right now ...
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:08:18 AM
captainkirk, I'm seeing more eBay commercials on prime time television but not as many as AOL. AOL knows that advertising is more important than the quality of service they provide. If its so "obvious", why don't you tell me how much eBay spends on advertising. I'll give you 10 to 1 odds its a fraction of AOL's advertising budget.
AOL advertises, and makes a profit charging $20/mo. Ebay is charging sellers $100, $200,...$500/mo. Ebay is #1 because their fleecing their sellers.
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:08:35 AM
oh, au contraire. aol cds are very useful as table shims, protective shipping for real cds, party favors at children's birthday parties, etc! 
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:10:52 AM
Millions and millions of free CDs stuffing my mailbox with "Get 500 hours of eBay free" all over them...
If you do start to get them, you might want to hang on to them. Remember all the "500 hours of AOL free" floppies that came in the mail several years ago? I had a pile of them stashed away to reformat and reuse, when I read in a post here on AW that people actually collected them. I listed them, and ended up getting about $75 for 10 or 15 disks.
Who would have guessed?
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:14:10 AM
OK, tell me how much aol spends on safeharbor type activities? none.
Tell me how much aol spends on billing compared to ebay? a lot less, since billing is much simpler for an isp than ebay.
Then there is the cost of real-time transactions, which are VERY expensive to do it right. On aol, when an instant message doesn't work (as often happens), who cares? On ebay, when a bid doesn't work, all H*LL breaks loose. Ebay is a MUCH harder business to run than an ISP.
You are missing the big picture if you just focus on advertising, which is only a small part of the cost of running ebay.
And, by the way, first of all tell me why you are comparing a "$100-$500" seller with a "$10-$20" ISP charge? I spend more on my ISP than I do on ebay. You've certainly picked apples and oranges to compare.
PS - I do love your colorful language: "fleecing". Could you define that please, in rigorous financial terms?
[ edited by captainkirk on Feb 8, 2001 09:21 AM ]
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Pocono
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:18:26 AM
AOL and eBay have one thing in common though, their technical staff...
THEY BOTH SUCK!
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RB
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:22:50 AM
Poc ... that's because they wear too many hats. They are also the SafeHarbour "experts", the eBay "lawyers", and the guys that clean the toilets before going home. About the only thing they don't do is clip Meg's coupons
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Shoshanah
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:28:29 AM
Pocono....
As to the AOL CDs, I use them for coasters, and some to put under my potted plants ...That's about all AOL is worth to me. AOL was my training "tricycle"...
Spreland...There are indeed a lot of Ebay ads on TV! I had never seen any till last week...probably because I don't normally watch commercial TV ..And they must cost a mint!
However, over in California, there is a Cable TV channel which show the AOL "tutorial" over and over and over...Came across it while babysitting my grand-children..Could not even fathom how many millions they are spending on that! So, my opinion would be that AOL still spends more.
As to comparing how much one spends on an ISP vs spending on Ebay, I believe one should not mix apples and oranges. That point would only be valid if ISPs ALSO also acted as Auction Listing Hosts, which they do not..If they did, you can bet your sweet beepy (what's a beepy?), that they would charge fees and ADVERTISE heavily.
As I said, this is only a point of view
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:28:51 AM
>>>And, by the way, first of all tell me why you are comparing a "$100-$500" seller with a "$10-$20" ISP charge? I spend more on my ISP than I do on ebay. You've certainly picked apples and oranges to compare.<<<<
If this is the case you most definitely do not need eBay. You are not doing enough volume to worry about turnover. List on a free site and keep the profits. I'm comparing $100-$500/mo sellers to $20 ISPs to illustrate that sellers are paying 5 to 25 times more for eBay's service.
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spuddy98
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:33:07 AM
Profits = Income - Cost
Income from AOL = 0
Cost of AOL = $20
----------------------
Profit from AOL = ($20)
Ebay income = $200.00
Cost of ebay = $ 13.50
Cost of items = $ 20.00
---------------------------
Profit from ebay= $166.50
Ebay is worth every pennay and More (don't tell them that!) The auction management sites already know it as well as paypal and all as your ebay transaction gets 'fleeced for as much as 7% buy all parties involved! And to the careful consumer it is still a bargain. I bought a PC card that I have no other resource for, for $55 delivered. Office max wants $150. I have bought these before and not lost out! Do the math!
Prepare for the worst but hope for the best!! Spuddy98
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Shoshanah
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:34:54 AM
spreland...Listing on a FREE site dos NOT guarantee sales...Why would that be better for a low-volume seller? There are very few, if any, auction sites which make people money...of course, it all depends on what one is selling...but it those free sites were so profitable, why would most sellers use Ebay? Are we all hopeless masochists?
captain...sorry, I did not see you "apples and oranges"... Did not mean to copy you...
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
[ edited by Shoshanah on Feb 8, 2001 09:38 AM ]
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:41:01 AM
"list on a free site and keep the profits".
Uh, that's the whole problem with your argument. There aren't any at these other sites. NO bids, no profits.
In any case, while you are into irrelevant comparisons, why not compare the cost of selling on ebay to buying the sunday newspaper? Heck, that only costs me $5/month! Wow, ebay is REALLY "fleecing" us now!
Shosh: don't worry, the flaw in his logic was so obvious I actually expected a lot more people to jump on my "apples and oranges" bandwagon...
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:41:04 AM
Shosh, Ebay's service and AOL's service may be comparing apples and oranges, but it illustrates how eBay is fleecing their sellers. It cost eBay less than 5 cents per each item listed. They charge sellers 75 cents to $20 for each item listed.
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:45:25 AM
spreeland:
According to your "math", ebay's profits should be at least 99% of revenue ($.05 cost deducted from $.75-$20 of revenue).
The funny thing is, their reported profit margin is more like 15-20%. Hmmm...they must have some VERY creative accountants.
I recommend you report them to the Securities and Exchange Commission for obvious fraud in their financial statements. I'm sure that as long as you can conclusively back up your claim they will be greatful to you.
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:51:04 AM
captainkirk, Any item you can sell on eBay will sell for the same price on a free site.
I do this everyday and I do this for a living. Most eBay sellers try to justify using eBay for the same reason AOLers try to justify using AOL's lame service. Lack of experince.
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 09:53:47 AM
"captainkirk, Any item you can sell on eBay will sell for the same price on a free site."
Well, that wasn't true for me on Amazon and Yahoo.
"Most eBay sellers try to justify using eBay for the same reason AOLers try to justify using AOL's lame service. Lack of experince"
well, not me. I "try" to justify using ebay because I make more money, faster. That's not a bad justification, if you think about it!
But hey, if free sites work for *you*, go for it.
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:02:03 AM
"According to your "math", ebay's profits should be at least 99% of revenue ($.05 cost deducted from $.75-$20 of revenue)."
That's your math. I did not say this was Ebay's total cost. Grow up.
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:04:34 AM
So you are comparing PART of their costs to their revenue? That is nonsensical. Or intentionally inflammatory. In either case, please, please, leave the financial analysis to the experts.
I refuse to grow up, by the way. I enjoy myself just the way I am.
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Meya
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:06:10 AM
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Spreland
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:08:31 AM
captainkirk, You state that you pay more for your ISP than you pay for Ebay. You have no credibility.
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captainkirk
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:11:11 AM
well, if it weren't for the fact that I'm right and you're wrong, you might have a point there.
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RB
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posted on February 8, 2001 10:26:16 AM
meya ... you got that right
Thanks ...
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smw
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posted on February 8, 2001 01:13:57 PM
Spreland: What an interesting user name. Sort of reminds me of Spree....
Ever spend any time under bridges?
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uaru
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posted on February 8, 2001 01:23:10 PM
Don't take this as gospel but you might want to check further. I seem to remember reading somewhere (credible publication or website) that AOL spend almost $90.00 in advertising and marketing for each new customer. So when you get those free disks and see their ads consider that they are spending top dollar for each new customer.
The sad thing is AOL's service is inferior to a local ISP and more expensive, but they've got it all in one nice little idiot proof point and click package. I can't stand AOL but I did consider getting my dad an account because of the ease of use. Luckily I was able to get my dad trained enough so he uses a local ISP, Netscape, Eudora, etc. and doesn't have to use AOL.
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kaskas
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posted on February 8, 2001 01:43:16 PM
I am almost scared to do my Profit and Loss for the next several months.... We will see how things compare to last year.
If things are not either the same or better I am going to be throwing in the towel. It really takes alot of time to run auctions. I thought staying home with the kids running auctions was the way to go... I am thinking I would make more babysitting the neighbors kids at this point.
Well I am making a committment to finish out htis quarter and take a look at my profit and loss.
I suggest you all do the same. It is scary to think that Ebay could actually be profiting more than me and I get to do all the work.
I dont mean to say they shouldnt charge a fee, but that the service should justify that fee. If people are not making enough money to support themselves on Ebay then they will have less listings and less cash in their pockets..... Do I HEAR ANOTHER FEE INCREASE?
KASKAS
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quickdraw29
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posted on February 8, 2001 02:11:57 PM
Let's take another scenerio: AOL user who uses internet for five minutes a month, bill is still $20. Ebay seller who sells five items, listing fee's are only $1.50. Ebay is per usage which is fair, AOL is flat rate which is unfair to those who use it less.
\"They say the grass is greener on the other side. But have you flipped it over and looked?
\"
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