fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 12:44:11 PM new
Thought fellow ebayers would like to hear this... I post the ebay identity of deadbeats on my "ME" page. These are recognized deadbeats for which I have requested non-payment commission fees back from ebay and posted negative feedback. I have also explained the retaliation negatives and neutrals that we have recieved from deadbeats with their ebay identity so that fellow ebayers can read the full story. I have been doing so for over a year until I received this letter from ebay:
"...Unfortunately, it was brought to our attention that your eBay About Me
page...is in violation of the eBay user agreement. We noticed that your About Me page contained identifiable contact information for other eBay members...You will need to remove all of the user ID's...from your
about me page.
While eBay will, if necessary, remove About Me pages that violate its policies...it is contrary to our policies for us to edit
your About Me page. We need to request that these changes be made within
24 hours...
Regards, Hannah"
I disagree with this policy as it protects the identity of known and documented deadbeats, however, that is their rule, and if they wish to protect their bad clients and punish their good clients - sobeit...
Anyway, I cited their letter, as I have done here to explain why I needed to remove the offenders names and today I got this letter from ebay:
"...Thank you for writing back. I did again review your about me page, and I noticed that you placed portions of the letter which was
sent to you. You will need to remove this information, as eBay does not allow this.
I will extend the deadline another 24 hours. We appreciate your cooperation...
Regards,
Hannah
eBay Community Watch Team"
This is an illegal request as the letter was quoted and is, by transmission, in the public domain...
It is obvious to me that they are protecting their deadbeats in a ploy to make their stocks more secure. We regular sellers on ebay all know the downfalls of ebay and that we a FED UP with ebay's attempts to squash negativity in a fascist manner...
Any Comments?????
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 12:54:18 PM new
By the way, while you are thinking of a response - remember that FREEDOM OF SPEECH is one of those doctrines you Americans are supposed to hold dear to your heart....
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RB
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posted on February 9, 2001 12:54:53 PM new
You'd better be careful ... Hannah and her boys will be comin' after you.
On a positive note, the worst thing that can happen (assuming you are able to head off Hannah at The Pass) is that eBay will suspend your membership and you will be free from their tyranny for an "indefinite" period of time.
Just like drug addicts sometimes have to be forceably removed from their habit to break the cycle, eBay addicts need the same impetus ... it will be easier for you to explain your absence from eBay if you let them pull your plug.
Good luck 
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 12:57:35 PM new
How is this supposed to help? Let the jews be taken away in box cars at night... and nobody talk about it? This is FASCIST RULE! IT IS ILLEGAL! You can not do what Hannah and her thugs is threatening to do... it is against the principles of American justice...
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mark090
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:13:06 PM new
I was wondering....
Was the indentifiable contact information just the User's eBay ID? And was it posted directly above your feedback listing....which contain the identifiable contact information for other users?
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ahwahneeliz
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:13:42 PM new
hmmm, I don't see that airing your grievances about ebay on an ebay held
page is going to serve you. They obviously have the control to
remove the information in its entirety if they want, regardless of how
right or righteous they are (or aren't). I'd hate to see that happen to
you, I thought your "about me" page had some interesting info and opinions.
Do you have another site you can link to for this info? Or perhaps
letting readers know they are welcome to email you for information about
deadbeats and retaliatory negs you've encountered.
I too am not happy about
some of ebay's rules, head-games, loyalties to corporations, etc. But I
submit to them because I choose to use their service. I wonder if EBAY is
going to continue to allow corporations to have seller's contact
information one their new rule goes into effect.
`·. >(((º>`·.¸.¸>
ahwahneeliz
>(((º>¸¸.·.>((º>··.¸><((((ºcJ
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:17:54 PM new
Regarding ebay user id's - its how the user is known on ebay - whatever appears in the high bidder box at the time of sale - sometimes its a nickname, and sometimes its an email address. I just listed that identity with the amount not paid for on my Me page....
You can find the exact information through ebay by checking feedback forum and looking... it just takes longer...
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RB
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:20:21 PM new
fonthill ... "it is against the principles of American justice..."
You haven't figured this out yet? eBay does not have to follow any of these laws. They have declared themselves a nation unto themselves and have written their own laws. By playing in their nation, you are agreeing to follow their laws.
Problem is, their laws keep changing depending on which one of their drones you happen to be talking to. Hannah sounds like a particularily nasty one. You have made it up to eBay "H's" without getting kicked off, and for that you should be congratulated. I only made it up to the "E's" (Emmett from SafeHarbour) before they ended my auctions.
Escape, I tell ya... escape and be free!
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gc2
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:21:00 PM new
Mark Thanks! I needed that!!
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 01:31:30 PM new
Mark - there were no feedback user's id's in my me page that were not documented deadbeats. BUt this is aside from the issue - I disagree with their ruling, but complied - it is their insistance that I remove the quote from their letter - this is blatant censorship!
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:04:40 PM new
fonthill-
remember that FREEDOM OF SPEECH is one of those doctrines you Americans are supposed to hold dear to your heart....
Many do. However, as you can see from reading the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
the entity which is not allowed to restrict free speech (by way of enacting laws) is the U.S. Congress. There is no similar restriction stated regarding eBay, which leaves them with the ability (and I suppose, you might also say the right) to run their site as they see fit.
That doesn't mean you have to like it, but there's probably not much else you can do but complain.
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:14:42 PM new
Thanks Mr. Potatohead for your insight into the U.S. Constitution....
I am Canadian, and I really don't think that this sort of action would be allowable under Canadian law as it inhibits the right to report fact, as it is quoted (as required for academics which is the only realm of legal responsibility I know of when it comes to freedom of speech).
If there is some legal loophole for ebay to embrace Hitleresque suppression of the freedom of speech which in any other country would be deemed illegal then you may have to have another Revolution, or at least another amendment to your constitution...
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preacher4u
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:31:18 PM new
I don't know why eBay is making all this fuzz about "identifiable user information", as eMail address won't be available to anybody anymore..... the death of bottom feeders.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:37:17 PM new
fonthill-
Suppose, for example, Fred (who just opened a new widget store) were to go into another Canadian store (let's call it Jim's Widgets) and stop all the incoming customers to tell them about Fred's Discount Widgets, which just opened across the street. Under the Canadian law which allows for free speech, is Jim required to permit Fred to remain on his premises and advertise to Jim's customers?
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katiyana
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:43:06 PM new
Hannah must be bored - she got my About Me page about 2 weeks ago for stating that I invite inquiries about available inventory...
Heaven forbid we provide our customers with 2 things they want - products and information!!
Post your list elsewhere (on your own webpage) and provide a link to your webpage on your About Me page.. then you provide the service indirectly without being in violation.
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gravid
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:47:53 PM new
Could you be specific as to the part of the user agreement that prohibits quoting communications from them on the ME page or anywhere else?
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badcompany
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:50:58 PM new
I agree with you fonthill. Also -- in a somewhat related vein, I get so stressed trying to locate someone's negative feedback on eBay when they have alot of feedback. It is as if eBay is tryuing to hide it. I get tired trying to sort through pages and pages searching for the negatives. If the eBayer has many, many feedbacks, I usually just give up because I never find it and I don't like wasting more of my time. I would like eBay to put a link to the negative feedback (as Yahoo did and does) so that other Ebayers can actually locate the negatives in a quick and efficient manner. What about it eBay?
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trkirk
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posted on February 9, 2001 02:59:28 PM new
Fonthill:
I have a friend that owns as store, he used to hang the bad checks he received by the checkout. He was told by the police that this was a violation of the check writers rights under the law in Michigan. So I guess ebay is not that different in their request for you to remove your posting. I do not agree with it in either case, but they make the rules. At least on their site.
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RB
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:02:10 PM new
"is Jim required to permit Fred to remain on his premises and advertise to Jim's customers"
No, but there is nothing to stop Fred from standing on public property in front of Jim's premises with a sign or handouts or whatever. This is called competition.
If Jim turfs Fred from his premises, he'd better have a good reason, and if Jim touches Fred during this manuever, Jim will be the one looking for a lawyer.
But, it's moot anyway. If Fred was slandering or libeling Jim (as I suspect eBay perceives the listing of deabeats on footill's page to be), then that would be another matter.
The so-called Free Speech thing exists here in Canada the same as it does it the USA, but there are common sense limits.
mrpotatohead is spot on when he says: "There is no similar restriction stated regarding eBay, which leaves them with the ability (and I suppose, you might also say the right) to run their site as they see fit", so you either have to like it or lump it.
As much I do not believe in eBay and their laws, nobody is forcing you to remain on their venue. You know what they say about "if you can't stand the heat ..."
You still have the freedom to leave eBay anytime you want. And for that reason, I don't think your comparsion between what eBay has done to you and what Hitler did to the Jews has any merit ... I suggest you get off that kick soon before this thread goes completely downhill.
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twelvepole
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:03:52 PM new
 ebay hurt my feelings and told me I can't post nasty things on THEIR site.
But I will continue to sell and buy there as it is the biggest and best site on the Internet.
Why not buy your own web space and then you can post whatever you like.
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Feb 9, 2001 03:05 PM ]
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gjsi
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:06:19 PM new
badcompany try this link http://www.vrane.com/ef.html
Greg
[ edited by gjsi on Feb 9, 2001 03:07 PM ]
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badcompany
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:09:40 PM new
Greg: Thanks for that link; it will prove very helpful. Appreciate it.
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uaru
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:10:59 PM new
remember that FREEDOM OF SPEECH is one of those doctrines you Americans are supposed to hold dear to your heart...
When anyone defends their position with the 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH' mantra I hesitate to argue with them. It usually isn't worth the time and effort.
fonthill,
Why not post the deadbeat user's IDs here on AW and then you can use the same complaint about AW thinking they are above the law and use the same argument to defend your position. The post will be deleted, and I agree with AW's policy.
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reddeer
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:14:55 PM new
I agree with uaru.
Is there a Full Moon? AW sure is getting some goofy threads today.
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codasaurus
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:28:10 PM new
Hello FontHill,
Why not post all of that information on your own personally paid for webpage?'
Your About Me page is provided to you at eBay's sole discretion. The least you might do is be gracious about a host's rules (however quirky or obnoxious that might seem) for behaviour in their house.
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:33:51 PM new
Well Mr. Potatohead, considering that Jim already has a list of say shoplifters behind his counter in tiny print, why can't Fred across the street put the same names in the window... SHould Jim get upset that Fred is helping to indentify the shoplifters????
Otherwise I don't understand your analogy...
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:37:08 PM new
Gravid - my point exactly - its not in their rules and its ILLEGAL and unconstitutional to censor information. Besides, as I have said before, I am not whining so much about the inability to list the deadbeats - its their playground and they can set the rules as they see fit, no matter how stupid... its the inability to quote the letter from ebay that tells me I can't list the deadbeats... This goes FAR BEYOND the first issue...
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mivona
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:39:28 PM new
Ok, maybe fonthill overstepped the mark with posting deadbeats IDs on his Me page. I personally think that responding to retaliatory negs by those deadbeats will result in identification of said deadbeats. I don't see why he should not be able to respond to those negs in his Me page.
But the second issue.. just WHY can't he quote Ebay's/Hannah's letter in his Me page? What is the problem? Unless they can give him guidance on what rule he is contravening, I don't understand what the problem is.
Can someone please explain?
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:41:38 PM new
tkirk:
Again, I understand, and appreciate your support. I disagree with ebay's rules about listing deadbeats, but if they want to hide the identity of deadbeats that is there business..... However, if that store owner were to put a sign up that said "I am not allowed to tell you who has written bad checks by order of the police" and then being told by the police to take that sign down - you are now living in a police state!
This is an illegal move by ebay to request that I not quote their public domain letter to me...
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:47:55 PM new
As for twelvepole and aurl or whatever their names were... You are the ones bringing this thread down. And I realize you may have difficulty reading...
My point is not about listing deadbeats! I DISAGREE WITH EBAY, but if they don't want me to list the names that is fine.... the point is about quoting the letter from ebay - THAT IS THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH PART I AM TALKING ABOUT!
Read before you respond, and if this doesn't upset you then you are as guilty as the Germans who let Hitler into power and then took no blame at the end of the war for the third reich - this is where the unAmerican activities of ebay are in question...freedom of speech includes the ability to quote from a public domain document...
Get it?
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