posted on February 21, 2001 12:19:07 PM new
Strong interest exists among many individual sellers for a viable alternative to eBay for, at least, part of their selling efforts.
Amazon, Gold's and YAHOO are recent examples of significant efforts by sellers to support and develop a major "2nd" marketplace.
The list of reasons to want to do business through a venue other than eBay is long and varies among sellers but I believe the majority would welcome a choice.
But what about buyers? Customers, for the most part, are sheltered from the daily interaction with eBay management. As long as they have good selection, price and customer service from the individual sellers, why would they ever consider going elsewhere?
What are your thoughts on what it would take to attract and retain buyers to a location "other than eBay"?
posted on February 21, 2001 12:50:45 PM new
I think bidders are always willing to try other sources. Actually, most of the time if they feel they can trust the seller and they want the item, no problem exists.
I think most people just don't want to shop around. If they did, they'd find better prices on many items elsewhere.
posted on February 21, 2001 02:54:46 PM new
I think some buyers may get frustrated. Key in mirror and get 33,333 hits? Over half of them new mirrors? (JUST as an example.) I think that is why alot of people avoid the malls to start with, they don't want to have to wade through it all.
Sure, you can narrow it down. Still, being able to find exactly what you want with all these new listings may make things difficult. I think if most buyers wanted this sort of thing, they are capable of dropping in a emall with their eyes shut!
I still think it is going to be up to us as the sellers to attract the buyers. With a reasonably low starting bid, can the reserves and promote the site from within. Both by buying and selling.
An email signature encouraging people to check it out will help. It may sound silly, but I think the good old grass roots effort would work. Post flyers at the b&m bullentin boards about the bargains and make it work from there. There are plenty of people hitting the yard sales hard and heavy.
If we can get the word out to the public at large that this is a real site, it would work. We've got heart. Something Ebay lost a long time ago.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the best advertising is word of mouth. Never mind being bombarded with everything else, people have a way of blocking it out after a while.
I'd be willing to put in 8 hours a month in my town to promote a site. Hang and hand out flyers, wear a logo T-shirt, call people I know. Those who are confident enough or know the right folks could assist with getting a write up in their local paper about it. If enough of us did this, we could push it forward.
[ edited by escandyo on Feb 21, 2001 03:11 PM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 03:29:59 PM new
You raise a valid topic. As mentioned, there is frustration.
Another site would require mega commitment with dollars and time.
Even though eBay seems to broadside sellers almost with regularity, we are still in the embryonic stages.
A shake out has to occur. A new site will not bring the same monies that eBay orginally did.
The market is saturated in many arenas.
So...not to beg the question, but -- I think it may still be too early.
Of course, we'll all look, maybe list and watch.
Look at the auction report - those site with many listings have almost zero bids.
posted on February 21, 2001 06:47:22 PM new
As a buyer only, I have been using eBay for over a year. I looked at Yahoo a couple of times. The stuff I was looking for was usually higher priced. I hated the interface, so I never went back.
No, I would not consider a new site unless the selection on eBay goes to he77. Why look elsewhere when I can find what I want on eBay?
posted on February 21, 2001 07:16:36 PM new
I think buyers to straight to eBay because they are accustomed to it, and can find whatever they are searching for there.
However, if there were a GREAT universal auction search engine that covered not only eBay, but all of the smaller auction sites out there ... and if SELLERS promoted that search engine to their bidders, it could be of benefit to all (except eBay itself).
Bidders could compare prices across different auction sites with just one search and bid wherever they found the best deal.
Sellers could list wherever they felt most comfortable but not feel they were listing auctions in a black hole.
The smaller auction sites would benefit from exposure to bidders who otherwise might not know they existed.
posted on February 21, 2001 07:29:37 PM newSaffyland, sorry, No. As a buyer I am looking for an easy and CONSISTANT interface. I don't want to deal with 3 or 5 or 10 different interfaces, registrations, policies, procedures, etc.
As a web developer, one of the things I have found that dramaticly improves the expirence at a web site is consistancy, without it a site is a pain. Same thing applies with auctions, I don't want to have to learn different interfaces.
I stick with eBay until something with MORE items comes along, then I might switch.
So if you collected vintage widgets, or needed a new digital camera, or whatever niche items you search for ... and could pay 20% less for the same item on another site, it wouldn't be worth taking a few moments to register at that site?
I would think most auction bidders are looking for the best deal they could find for whatever merchandise they wanted.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:07:33 PM new
Ebay seems to have institutionalized the screwing of the seller. Listing fees have almost doubled for me in less than a month, service is the same old CR*P. I pay for a 10 day auction and may get 8 or 9 with ebay downtimes.Even if you pay for only 7 days you may get 5-6. I think most folks selling went to 10 days in order to get close to a week. Note that you get 6 days 23 hrs. listed when you first post an auction. How blatant a rip off! Ebay clips corners, rips off sellers, spins the media, and no one yet has the guts or brains to pose a serious challenge. I would love to see some enterprising attorney hit ebay with a class action suit. It's going to happen one day, mark my word.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:15:49 PM new
Interesting thread.
I think that gjsi is right...but it is more than just the interface. eBay provides buyers with support through feedback and then there is the buzz.
Saffyland, you're right. People will go for the better deal ... indeed they will demand a better deal before they go elsewhere. The problem with any competing site is that the buyer considers any kind of change ... including the simple task of registering for another site ... a risk. How do they know the new site won't spam them or if it is a secure place to put their CC ... etc.
The only hope is for sellers to organize an effort that effectively address the issues.
What you say is possible but then so is harnessing fusion power. Exactly how that can be done is the question.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:59:41 PM new
You brought up an interesting point: "How do
they know the new site won't spam them"
I have noticed a dramatic increase in the amount good old 'spam' e-mail that I am receiving since I registered with about half-dozen of the smaller auction sites about 6 weeks ago.
I've had the same email address for about 4 1/2 years, so I don't think the spam lists just discovered me by accident. But in the past 6 weeks I have gone from receiving a half dozen 'improve your sales' or 'spy on anyone' or 'mortgage rates are lower than ever' junk e-mails PER WEEK, to receiving 10 PER DAY.
posted on February 21, 2001 10:28:48 PM new
I for one use different sites for buying, but I ALWAYS start at ebay first and then compare prices from there. With so many sites it is easier to pick and choose.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on February 21, 2001 11:56:34 PM new
Price - Let's explore that.
As a buyer I "might" go to an alternate site to the one I'm comfortable with to save money but price is only one part of my buying equation.
As a seller I won't consistantly sell off eBay at a lower profit. "Come to our site and make less money" just doesn't have much appeal for me.
I would consider reducing my prices (for BIN or fixed priced item) to reflect any portion of the eBay fees I save(approx.7 or 8 percent of gross sales).
I would also be willing to contribute some items each week to a broad based promotional effort such as a $1.00/NR section during the developmental stage (1 yr.+or-).
I would be willing to support the "cause" by offering a discount to members of a "users co-op".
But to attract and retain sellers I believe any VOTE (venue other than eBay) has to offer similar profit potential that exists at eBay for time/inventory/effort expended.
I think the strongest appeal an alternative site can offer buyers is selection. The Half.com success warrents inclusion of their model in the format mix.
posted on February 22, 2001 01:27:11 AM new
This is an interesting thread. No doubt sellers would like (at least) a choice of venues. To sellers, the perils of eBay as a monopoly are pretty obvious. But what about buyers? Do they care that a particular listing may cost the seller $.10 cents more? Probably not.
The most important thing, I think, is for a site to provide quality listings. And that includes overall quality. eBay has lots of good stuff, but far more junk listings. It used to fun to browse eBay. Now it's only frustrating. Categories are too big. Seriously, can anyone look through 2500 listings for women's jeans? I sold several last week, and the bids all came in during the last half day. Pretty obvious bidders are only scanning the items that end the same day. (Not only is browsing not fun for bidders, but sellers are limited to just a few hours of exposure as the auction is about to end.)
I buy software, and my big complaint with Yahoo was the tons of bootlegged software found there. Every interesting item or good deal turned out to be someone's burned CD-R copy. After a few forays, I stopped Yahooing altogether.
Most new auction sites intend to go public. Common strategy is to start out huge with venture capital, then sell the site (or offer stock). So new auction sites must take a chunk out of eBay quickly, or else flop. All the new auction sites are failing not because they are inferior to eBay, but because they are under a strict schedule to begin showing a profit. Compare that to the way eBay started out: a free bulletin board for trading Pez dispensers. It's absurd to think of any auction site starting out that way today! (Yet it worked for eBay.)
Several people above mentioned eBay's interface. Well, I personally don't think much of it. I stopped browsing eBay's many features around the time they introduced My eBay. I've been eBaying for four years, and I've never seen my My eBay page. I have no idea what it is. eBay has too many bells and whistles. I like eBay much better without the frills, back when emails used to arrive within a few minutes of the auction's end. I think many buyers are simply fed up with the excess of dark hallways that the eBay site has become. As a seller, when I list an item, I must scroll through three pages of extra listing features that I never use, just to put my item up for auction. Listing an item through eBay has become almost as difficult as filling out tax forms. eBay is being crushed under its own weight.
Bottom line, buyers go where the best deals are. There's much to be said for ease of use, pretty logo, and especially customer loyalty. But bidders aren't married to eBay. Yahoo proved that, although they missed the brass ring.
I think a co-operative auction site could solve a lot of the problems most online auction sites face. A co-op site doesn't need to compete with eBay, but can instead focus on long-term stability. That is something NO OTHER auction site can offer, including eBay. (For example, how do collectors feel now that eBay is bringing in thousands of new retail listings? ) The cost to operate a co-op would be minimal, with no pressure to make profits for shareholders. It would be perfectly acceptable for a co-op to start small and grow steadily. I think a lot of the community spirit that has been lost at eBay can be reclaimed by a smaller, dedicated site.
Ten years down the road, a sellers co-op may grow to several million listings. At that point, specialty co-op sites could emerge; for example, a cooperative antiques auction site.
posted on February 22, 2001 03:50:10 PM newSaffyland, I collect cufflinks. No, I no longer look at any other auction sites then Ebay. There are usually a 4000+ different auctions of cufflinks. If I don't like the "deal" on one auction, I will look for an auction I like.
As for new items, I would never buy from Ebay. I would rather go through a retail online store or local B&M where the price is fixed. I can compare prices and get the best deal and I either have it now or it is shipped when I order. No waiting for the auction to end.
For some items I will pay a higher price to get the customer service I am looking for. price is NOT always the determining factor.
As to registering at other sites, why give more then one site the chance to Spam me and sell my information?
As a buyer, I don't care how much the seller does or does not make on each sale. I am looking for the total price (ending bid + S/H) that is right for me.
twinsoft Most of what I look for on Ebay is done via search. I have bookmarked all of the searches I do on a daily basis. There is only one item I look for via browse (because I can't figure out a search that will get everything). So I rarely go down eBay's dark alleys.
I would guess that many buyers stay on eBay out of laziness. They know how it works and don't want to learn a new system.
posted on February 23, 2001 05:57:45 AM new
I believe there is definitely a market for at least one other large auction site – the success of Yahoo over the past couple of years proved that. In the past, the early months of Amazon also proved that. The problem is with the above mentioned two, about the time they became truly competitive with eBay they decided to make major changes which was tantamount to suicide!
I personally don’t think a co-op will work. The only hope for a large competitor to eBay is another site with the funding and advertising power of a Yahoo or Amazon, and hopefully the next such venue learns from Yahoo and Amazon, how not to destroy the system that they have built.
In the instances of Yahoo and Amazon, they already had a powerful membership base to grow from, AND established name recognition. Personally, I can’t see many situations which would fit this standard exist, with the exception perhaps of PayPal, who has the size, the customer base (specifically in on line buyers) that “might” be able to start a true competitive venue auction and see it succeed.
I would doubt PayPal would consider going into the auction business since most likely all other auctions sites would then ban their logo’s on sellers ads, and their free advertising would be a great loss. But, I do think some similar ecommerce site with a already established base, “could” challenge eBay. I personally, don’t see a co-op, with little funding, no basic recognizable name, no major customer base stands any more change, even less chance of succeeding to any major extend than do any of the other small auction sites.
posted on February 23, 2001 07:48:30 AM new
The big question is where will the buyers come from? Yahoo and Amazon brought their own members along. Ebay buyers aren't stupid to leave for another site that has less selection.
As for sellers, read these threads, you can't make most ebay sellers leave either. Ebay could double their fees and these sellers won't budge. Why? Beacuse it's where the buyers are, and the other sites don't offer anything different for buyers to pull them away.
posted on February 23, 2001 08:48:59 AM new
It's not impossible, but any auction that wants to compete with eBay has an extremely uphill battle. Remember Auction Universe? Backed by Times-Mirror, they had lots of money for advertising, and boy did they advertise! I saw their ads all over the place - in collector's publications, in trade journals, in large-circulation newspapers, etc. In addition, their policies were designed to make buyers feel very confident about buying from sellers on their site. But nothing they did drew the buyers and sellers in, and they eventually folded. Pretty scary. Maybe the co-op site is the way to go for the long term, but the co-op will still need to spend a lot of money to advertise. And that sure is no guarantee, as AU (RIP) can attest.
posted on February 23, 2001 10:23:59 AM new
I don't entirely agree.
I think that many Yahoo auction buyers were attracted as much by sellers efforts as by Yahoo itself. Many sellers methodically encouraged their eBay customers to look at their selection on Yahoo. This made sense to the collectible consumer, since they're always on the lookout for that certain special item. It made sense to sellers, since yahoo was free and they could carry more inventory there.
Sellers go to ebay because that's where the buyers are. Buyers go to ebay because that's where the selection is. Buyers are unlikely to break that circle. Sellers could though. If a co-op had enough selection, visiting buyers would make it a regular stop. If it's a co-op, then costs could be kept low, which allows steady accumulation of inventory.
posted on February 23, 2001 10:26:32 AM new
There are millions of people who are totally addicted to garage sales, yard sales, and white elephant type sales of used junk. If an auction site for used stuff was around, I think buyers would flock there once the word got out.
There is a flea market every few months in a local church here. Five years ago it was 80 percent used junk and 20 percent new crap. You could barely get to tables to look there were so many people browsing.
Today, it's 90 percent new crap and 10 percent old junk and the place has so many empty tables and so few browsers that you'd never think it was a sale at all.
There is one church that has a twice a year sale that is all old junk. They have to make people wait outside because of the throngs that show up. They are lining up outside at 7 a.m. for a sale that starts at 11 a.m.
Another thing is IMO ebaY is not a monopoly. It isn't like the telephone copmany owning all the wiring and being the only one capable of providing phone service.
The opportunity is there for other auction sites to start up. Because they fall on their own does not make ebaY a monopoly.
I used to buy so much stuff on ebaY but lately I have no urge. Browsing used to be fun, now it's awful. Too much mass produced garbage, keyword spamming, etc. All the fun is gone.
posted on February 23, 2001 03:05:57 PM new
If Popula will clean up the site, I am going to push this one forward. The graphics are good, the site is good. Take a look and see what you think. I am tired of getting lost in the shuffle, with "auto response" messages. This site offers a very nice change of fresh air. It may be too informal for some, but... If I had designed a site on many, many good days, this would be it.
posted on February 23, 2001 04:18:44 PM new
I agree with Dave 100%.
I also think that a lot of sellers of low-dollar items have been edged out of selling on Ebay. It would be nice if sellers of postcards, crochet patterns, sports cards, fast food toys, etc had a venue that didn't treat them like they were selling "junk" and didn't completely gouge on price either.
posted on February 23, 2001 04:31:34 PM new
Count me as SICK TO DEATH of the seller who is leaving Ebay. No matter what I put in, I get their TRASH. We have ordinances about out of business sales in this county. GO OUT OF BIZ NOW. DON'T want to see it OVER & OVER!!!!!!
posted on February 23, 2001 06:11:32 PM new
When it was first announced I thought that the Fairmarket auction (where traffic would be generated from a large number of sites such as MSN, Lycos...) would become a major competitor to eBay. Why didn't this work?
I think the most likely way buyers will leave eBay is for specialized auction sites (where for example abebooks.com (a used bookselling site which lists more than 20 million books) would offer book auctions).
