posted on February 23, 2001 02:40:31 AM
You know that there is no free lunch! Paypal did a great service for online sellers, it opened the doors for cheap acceptance of Visa and Mastercard for anyone! No credit checks, back ground checks, keep your nose clean, and you were accepted!
Access was granted by other folks at low rates, Billpoint cut the cost by 70%, just because they started to charge for the service, as they had to pay Visa and Mastercard. You folks continue to bash them.
I have never had a problem, and I feel that my bidders have bid at least 15% to 20% higher on my auctions! I use both Paypal and Billpoint! Thank you for not using these great products! Ed
edhdsn
posted on February 23, 2001 05:07:28 AM
I never had any problem with PayPal until the day they suddenly (without any prior notice) decided they no longer wanted to mail my checks to my PO Box. Poof! PayPal account no longer useable!!
posted on February 23, 2001 05:21:37 AM
I have used PayPal for ages, never a problem, and 99% of my users of such services use PayPal, even though for a few months I also accepted PayDirect & BillPoint. Personally, I love PayPal.
I have a P.O. Box and have never had a problem with PayPal about it - I admit I don't use it for PayPal checks because I prefer electronic transfer - but we have no other address except a P.O. Box. In some rural areas in the U.S., everyone gets their mail at the P.O. there is no "home" delivery - the few times I've had a problem with having only a P.O. Box, I have put in the physical address of our local little post office and that works too. I talked to the Post Office about this and it was no problem.
But the fact is, the bigger a company becomes the more criticism it gets, regardless of the job it is doing...I don't think the complaints on this board have much effect on PayPal's users one way or the other - folks just like to complain.
posted on February 23, 2001 05:51:55 AM
Payola bashing is right!
A fly-by-night operation at best. They started with a lie and continue on a wing and a prayer. Why anyone would deposit $ with them is a complete mystery. They are not a bank and offer no FDIC insurance. They are not subject to the overview placed on any bank. Trusting a known liar with hard earned funds is not my idea of wise.
They have however managed to become a major parasite in the market place. Payola's terms of service represent little risk to buyers and large risk to sellers so they've identified their end user well and will probably continue sucessfully.
Every time you click that send money button repeat this statement. "I don't mind working with and trusting liars."
But that's just my opinion,
dennis
posted on February 23, 2001 06:09:37 AM
I think the main problem with PayPal is they moved the carrot too fast and without due consideration of users. People will accept a certain amount of change over time. PayPal accelerated that process way too quickly to become (more) profitable and that alienated many of us. For all the benefits of using the service, PayPal has lost touch with its core seller base and opened itself up to a public relations nightmare.
posted on February 23, 2001 06:13:49 AM
I agree with Ed!!!
We have used PayPal and Billpoint for alomst a year and we have been extremely pleased with both Services. There IS no such thing as a free lunch. If someone comes into our shop and takes out a credit card, I gladly accept it, run it thru, give them their merchandise, and pay the couple of points as just a part of doing business. If we did not offer the convenience, we'd have "NO SALE".
Personally, I prefer PayPal because it is so easy. No invoice to send...the buyer does all the work and you get the cash (again, less a couple points).
If other sellers get out of accepting PayPal or Billpoint, I say HURRAY!! More (and higher) Bids for us!!
Just one person's opinion.
HarmonyGroveAntiques
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed." - Curly Howard
posted on February 23, 2001 06:32:07 AM
Although I too have NEVER had a problemo with PP, the BBB really has a grim view of them & that speaks volumns!
I don't think the BBB made up all those complaints, nor do I belive that the BBB is lying when it asserts that PP rarely fixes a problem without dental surgery!
PP CAVEAT: use ONLY because I HAVE TO & thus use WITH CAUTION!
posted on February 23, 2001 09:31:24 AM
If people take the time to learn how PayPal works it can be a helluva tool for moving money. To move money to your friends, to your sellers, from your buyers, to your bank, from your bank, and the new debit card has given it much more muscle. PayPal's recent agreements with banks in the US, Europe, and last week a Japanese bank I see the service becoming even more widespread as its international abilities grow. Unfortunately many people don't take the time to read how PayPal works or they get their information from chicken little. It is much easier to scare people than educate them. Some have pointed to how brand z has no complaints, the fact that brand z is accepted on 0.001% of the auctions isn't mentioned or considered relevant.
What some say on the message boards doesn't correspond with what the sellers do on the auction sites. PayPal's acceptance is very high, when I find a search that yields 40 matches on eBay I'll usually find 30 of those accept PayPal. I don't have to sell PayPal to my buyers, they are already sold on it.
Yes PayPal got an unfavorable rating with the BBB on how it was handling complaints, but nobody seem to take notice of the results of the comments issued after the meeting with PayPal and the BBB. "They have taken this very seriously," Sharon D'Amico, president of the Silicon Valley BBB, told the E-Commerce Times. She said that she was "very, very pleased" with the results of a Wednesday meeting with the Palo Alto, California-based company.
posted on February 23, 2001 10:03:36 AM
I am a supporter for paypal because it has made my job a hellalot easier.
no more waiting for bounced checks, lost mail, or the potential slow payer.
and now with the debit card, its greater than ever. my money , NOW.
I know several are disappointed about the referral bonus not as fluid as they were in the 'early days' but, hey... thats exactly what it was, a Bonus. I got way more than my share, over $3000 dollars during that promotion.
I know many are hating .30 fees, but think of all the referral money that we got that covers it!
Do I worry about a mishap, having my account froze over a buyer using stolen credit card? yes.
But my brick n motar bank makes mistakes too, and I have to worry about them as well.
posted on February 23, 2001 11:08:58 AM
I am an ardent supporter of Paypal and love the simplicity of their service. I have personallly had no problems.
I am also fascinated by their bumbling and arrogance.
However, their bungling of customer relations in the past, combined with overly harsh policies in times of possible fraud have earned them the wrath of many.
They are a textbook example of how NOT to relate to your customers. The fact that this thread is even here proves it beyond a doubt. A little sensitivity of their part and most of their problems could have been avoided.
posted on February 23, 2001 12:05:35 PMksterniPaypal is great, until you have a problem. Then it sucks
Marriage, cars, children, Mexican vacations, love affairs, a night at the casino, an ocean voyage, a home, credit cards, eBay, telephones, the Post Office, and life in general are all great till you have a problem. Then they all suck.
I've use to help a lot of novices with computers and the online world, I ran a BBS for years in the pre-internet world. I wouldn't be able to be a PayPal rep at this stage in my life, I'd end up getting fired because I'd be caught screaming "YOU STUPID &%#$ CAN'T YOU BOTHER TO READ? IS CLICKING AND PANICKING YOUR ONLY SKILL!!!"
Have you ever come across a buyer or seller on eBay that couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel?
Yes PayPal causes some of their problems, but they get tons of help from customers.
posted on February 23, 2001 12:28:07 PM
I am an International user and find it very handy as my USA buyers can pay at once and I can pay them just as quick.When I transfer my balance to my debit card account it takes 4 days which is longer than they take to take funds from my account i dont know why that is. I keep my credit balance as low as possible only because i need the money.I have todate had no problems .
posted on February 23, 2001 12:50:53 PM
"I use Paypal and I've never had a problem with it."
Well, that statement makes limited sense. Just like saying, "I love sleeping on the railroad tracks; I've never had a problem with it." Most of us felt the same way, until the problems started.
As far as the bashing in this thread, remember the old credo, "the customer is always right?" When your customers come to you with a problem, do you tell them, "YOU STUPID &%#$ CAN'T YOU BOTHER TO READ?" Perhaps those who offer that level of customer support are comfortable with Paypal's policies.
My grievances with Paypal actually have very little to do with my own personal experiences (which were mixed, both positive and negative). Those of us who were here at the start watched Paypal orchestrate a series of lies and misdirection. As I posted yesterday, I never objected to paying Paypal's fees.
Honesty and integrity are important to me, more important than a clever advertising scheme. I won't do business with a company that I know is lying to its customers. If your policy is, "it's okay to lie to customers, if the money's right," you're the one who has to live with that.
Look, folks. Here's the bottom line. Paypal is dishonest. They've lied from the start, and they're still lying. They grab customers' money and lock it up for months, based on trumped-up charges. Paypal is earning interest on $100 million dollars of their customers' money that Paypal has seized under false pretenses. Think it can't happen to you? Deal with them at your own risk.
(BTW, the thread I started yesterday, "Is There Life After Paypal?" was not intended to bash Paypal in any way. I only wanted to hear from other sellers who have discontinued Paypal's service. The "bashing" started when Paypal's PR/damage control rep jumped into the thread with his usual, "send me the details so I can check on it" line. I, too, was disappointed when the thread took a wrong turn. There is a marked difference between the way Paypal handles complaints that appear on public forums, and complaints received by email. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.)
posted on February 23, 2001 01:00:57 PM
It is Paypal's fault for valuing their business as zero in the first place. They put it into their customers head that the service is worth nothing, so how can you blame the customers?
They should have offered a 6 month free trial period, then say after 6 months the service is valued at such and such. That's the proper way of conducting business. Yahoo fell into the same trap and could have learned from paypals demise.
Some paypal customers just left and didn't complain. Paypal didn't have a chance to rectify the situation with them. However, when other people did complain, they gave the company a chance to make things better.
Another stupid mistake was only giving referral dollars to upgraded accounts. So I stop referring new customers to them! Like my customers are worse than a person's customers with an upgraded account! I rank that as the dumbest business decison ever.
Then when I add all this together, plus they won't mail to my PO box, does anyone seriously want to risk having their money held with this amateur company?
posted on February 23, 2001 07:07:59 PM
I like using the service like most sellers, but how can someone be a PayPal supporter? I mean, I can understand a Green Peace supporter because they do stuff for the enviroment, but I have never heard of a PayPal supporter. To me, that is like saying I am a Wells Fargo supporter (worst bank in the world though I still use them).
As I said, I like the service, but I am weary of people who claim to be supporters as if they were supporting some really good causes. I actually have had a merchant account before and it was horrible! PayPal is WAY better than having your own merchant account in my oppinion. HOWEVER, better does not make them good. Look at our choice for presidents. Also, I have heard from many people that their money has been locked from them and that is scary. Plus, they are not a legitimate bank and if they file for bancruptcy, we lose our money...
posted on February 23, 2001 07:18:50 PM
PayPal was fine until X.com took it over. I wish the old people had it back.
I still use it, though. I just make sure I empty my PayPal account to my bank account every night, before they decide they like my money for investing too much and lock up my account.
Please give the "no free lunch" arguement a rest. I take Billpoint payments and have no complaint so this NO FREE LUNCH thing is a non-issue with me.
> I take issue with their sleazy spam payment approach.
> Lack of support when a problem comes up.
> Freezing accounts with no wrong doing by the seller.
> Nonexistant customer service.
My number one complaint is the spam payment approach. I decided to take some precautions to prevent problems with a frozen account and it has caused nothing but problems. I don't mention PayPal in my EOA and do not accept payments to my Ebay registered email address. I expect people to ask if I take PayPal and not just send payments. I refuse to keep adding my Ebay email address just to accept payments from inconsiderate users.
Most of the time people will cancel their payment and send it to the proper email address but some of them become nasty and insist we accept the payment at that address. This would not happen if PayPal would only allow payments to be sent to a registered email address. The fix would be simple but PayPal in their greed refuses to change their spam payment policy.
People who don't accept PayPal at all are having similar problems. PayPal encourages inconsiderate behavior on the part of buyers. That makes them a sleazy company in my oppinion.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Feb 23, 2001 09:16 PM ]
posted on February 23, 2001 09:17:55 PM
I think everyone is aware that there are going to be problems that need fixed. I have been able to use PayPal so far without any snags at all. Still, I am aware from the posts I see here that if I DO have a problem I can expect it to be difficult and time consuming to fix. I use the service but with caution. I keep a personal account to which I transfer all payments before wiring the money to my bank. The business account is tied to an account that has $5.00 in it and will never have funds to support a charge back. I figure there is a chance if I am careful that I will not have any problems until PayPal is sued and regulated into maturity and users have a reasonable chance to correct an error when it happens. If not I will take a small loss and walk away if need be. A small additional price to pay for the business I have done through them.
posted on February 23, 2001 11:25:49 PM
No, matter what the subject, the people who have had problems will always post their stories because they have something to say. Those of us who have never had a problem really don't have anything to say. A long line of Great, never had a problem, would create a thread nobody would read. There is not a single company that deals with auctions that hasn't had complaints threads going on AW. The sites, Ebay, Yahoo, Gold's Amazon, all the smaller ones. All the pay services besides PayPal have had their individual horror stories told on different threads. Even Auction Watch is slammed on its' own message boards.
