posted on March 6, 2001 03:21:18 PM
I am shocked, I had a microsoft software auction up it was for cds only with a registration key....
Ebay has cancelled all of my auctions and suspended me...what can I do...I won't list the ms software..I didn't know I couldn't sell it...I know ebay is hard to get a hold of...what can I do....HELP PLEASE!!!
posted on March 6, 2001 03:36:59 PM
Hope Tag doesn't mind me posting this?
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posted on March 6, 2001 03:38:40 PM
It was shrinkwrapped microsoft cds...I wasn't aware I couldn't sell that product...there were tons of others selling them...
My beef is...why don't they give me a notice or at least just cancel those specific auctions....why do I have to get suspended...I think that is unfair...especially since I didn't realize I was doing something wrong...if they would have told me not to do it again and cancelled those specific auctions I would have complied...but this is rediculous, I am just a small time seller working out of my home, I don't know all of the rules!!
posted on March 6, 2001 04:19:38 PMIt was shrinkwrapped microsoft cds...I wasn't aware I couldn't sell that product
It depends.
You can indeed sell software which you legally purchaseed, and you're selling the originals you puchased, in the form you purchased them.
I can't think of a single Microsoft product which is sold as "cds only with registration key", so surely there's more to the story than presented so far.
posted on March 6, 2001 04:21:23 PM
Well for one thing, you can't sell any programs that are "OEM". In other words, if you bought a new computer, and you received some programs with it, such as Works 2000 or Office, you cannot sell them unless you are also selling the computer they came with.
posted on March 6, 2001 05:09:43 PM
Unfortunately, what they did was the right thing. Not knowing the law is no excuse to break it. You need to investigate the items before you buy them. Here is the place to find out if the CD's you were trying to sell are illegal copies:
posted on March 6, 2001 05:11:55 PM
It is against eBay's rules to sell ANY software on CD-ROM, unless you are the copyright owner. So, even legitimately purchased CD-ROM software cannot be resold on eBay.
posted on March 6, 2001 05:17:16 PM
If you check, most of the other sellers you will see, they are selling some doorstop of a HD or PC with the software, and then letting the high bidder have the option of "refusing" the HD or other piece of hardware.
At least from the last few times I purchased software from Ebay.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on March 6, 2001 05:17:18 PM
Just came across something mind-boggling - apparently you *can* sell OEM software on eBay as long as you include a hard-disk with it?
There are tons of ended OEM auctions that just started, but the ones that include these 'as-is, no warranty' hard disks have stayed open for days...
So basically I can buy a completely useless hard disk for a buck or two and sell OEM software for hundreds of dollars?
posted on March 6, 2001 05:24:28 PM
Yes, Ebay ends those auctions....However, it seems to me that they use to just END the auction, not suspend the seller. IF the seller relisted the item THEN they could be suspended.
Some possibilities: Ebay user was sitting under another warning already.
You are correct, you can sell OEM operating system software with a system, hard drive, or motherboard. (per the OEM license agreement with Microsoft) Other OEM items, such as Microsoft Office, Works, etc. have to be installed on the system by the computer manufacturer. When a company orders a bunch of computers from us with Office 2000, we have to install each copy individually and enter each serial number and the company's name before we ship the units.
It is not unusual for small computer stores to keep a few junk motherboards and drives around to toss in with a copy of Windows to make the sale legal. We never have, because we want them to buy their new motherboard or hard drive from us. (and if they don't ... screw'em they can buy the retail version for $169)
posted on March 6, 2001 05:52:44 PM
It might be pointed out that it is not a criminal offense to violate a license agreement.
It is a criminal offense to sell copyrighted material which one does not own, and eBay has some legal responsibility not to facilitate such criminal transactions.
To the extent that eBay participates in enforcement of license agreements, such as OEM agreements, that is eBay's choice, no law compels them to do so.
That said, eBay indeed chooses to participate in the enforcement of such licensing terms, and sellers have little choice of not following the rule.
We could also point out that the original poster of this thread has not clarified what "cds with a registration key" really meant, although a bare, license-violating OEM seems plausible.
posted on March 6, 2001 06:05:23 PM
It really doesn't matter how it was listed and how it was described...something does not add up here...in this situation..Ebay would normally just cancel the auction, refund your fees, and send you a POLITE email describing the (VeRo) program...suspending your account for a first time violation doesn't make any sense to me. They do say in the email that if you continue to list the item after the warning, then you are subject to suspension. Below is a cut and paste describing what they do in regards to copyright, trademark, etc. Here is the text.........We do not generally monitor our site looking for particular items, but we often receive reports from eBay users and third parties, as well as individuals and companies who are members of our Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program. More on VeRO below. Here's what we do with the information:<p>
Ebay says:<p>
If an auction offers an item prohibited by law or eBay's policies, we end the auction.
If the auction offers an item which can be considered an "apparent" or "blatant" violation of someone's copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights ("infringing", we end the auction.
If the auction offers an allegedly infringing item, but eBay can't tell this by looking at the auction, we probably won't end it, but we will try to refer it to the owner of the rights involved.
If the report comes from a rights owner participating in our VeRO Program, we will review the item and, unless there is an obvious error, we will end the auction. eBay does not end every auction requested by a VeRO Program Member.
In all cases where we end an auction early, we automatically credit the fees for that auction.
posted on March 6, 2001 06:42:09 PM
Here are some facts on my situation:
This was not oem, it was factory shrinkwrapped ms product with registration number on back. I am the owner (I had purchased 5 from a private party to sell on Ebay).
It is true I didn't do any research to see if I can't sell the ms software, I will take the blame for that, and I don't want to argue to validity of the ms product...that is a moot point...ms can do whatever they want...I didn't do my research.
I had listed 2 auctions--one on Monday and one on Tuesday. The one on Monday ended with buy it now. And on Tuesday (today) is when I get 3 emails from ebay...1 for ending Tuesday's (today's) ms auction, 1 for cancelling all of my auctions, and 1 for I am suspended!
I never received a warning from ebay....EVER...not in the 1 1/2 years I have been selling!! I thought I was entitled to a warning before being suspended.
I am not disputing (now after I received the copyright infringment notice)the discontinuation of the ms auctions....I am disputing CLOSING ALL OF MY AUCTIONS AND BEING SUSPENDED WITHOUT A WARNING!!
posted on March 6, 2001 06:50:28 PM
Hey jlady ... look at it this way ... you are free of the eBay tyranny for an "indefinite" time period. Enjoy it while you can ... before they reinstate you (if they do)
posted on March 6, 2001 06:56:18 PM
What about software that I purchased retail but no longer use? For example, I have Norton CleanSweep which I no longer use and have completely removed from my system. Am I allowed to sell that if I wish?
posted on March 6, 2001 06:57:01 PMThis was not oem, it was factory shrinkwrapped ms product with registration number on back. I am the owner (I had purchased 5 from a private party to sell on Ebay).
Why not offer some more details, allow us to connect this with our experience. What MS software was this?
posted on March 6, 2001 06:59:40 PMWhat about software that I purchased retail but no longer use? For example, I have Norton CleanSweep which I no longer use and have completely removed from my system. Am I allowed to sell that if I wish?
Yes, you are, if you sell it as you bought it. (you can't sell it on copied's cd's, etc).
Beyond that, given eBay's enforcement, you have to avoid the appearance of selling pirate sw.
posted on March 6, 2001 07:07:19 PM
Interesting thread, but I could follow it better if I knew what OEM means ?
[ edited by mcjane on Mar 6, 2001 07:08 PM ]
posted on March 6, 2001 08:22:01 PMIt is against eBay's rules to sell ANY software on CD-ROM, unless you are the copyright owner. So, even legitimately purchased CD-ROM software cannot be resold on eBay
So...this means used games too?. They ARE CD-ROM software, so I guess eBAy better get on the ball!!
It seems like we may not be getting the whole story here...
Is MS in the VERO program??? Anyone?
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on March 7, 2001 06:23:06 AM
"It is against eBay's rules to sell ANY software on CD-ROM, unless you are the copyright owner. So, even legitimately purchased CD-ROM software cannot be resold on eBay"
This is similiar to eBay's "rule" on the sales of Emmy Consideration video tapes, promo tapes, screeners etc. Their printed rules state this is a no-no, yet they allow it even after being notified.
It's old news to many, but I got suspended for listing a set of original Columbia House re-tv tapes of a cult tv series. eBay used "potential infringement of copyright" as the reason for ending my auction. It was the same scenario as Joice's - no advance warning, no opportunity for me to "defend" myself, and absolutely no "investigation" by eBay.
I contacted a friend at Columbia House to get a ruling, and he told me via email that the sales of their product is strictly controlled and their resale on eBay is, in fact, a violation of the owner's copyright!
I forwarded that email to SafeHarbour, tucked my tail between my legs, and apologized to eBay for challenging their suspension of me. I also pointed out 68 other listings for Columbia House tapes that should be ended.
Guess how many of those 68 listings were ended?
I regularily send eBay reports of illegal listings for Columbia House tapes citing the listing number, and I include a copy of the email I received from Columbia House as proof, along with a suggestion that eBay contact CH in their "investigation". I even include a name, telephone number, and email address that they can use to verify this.
I am not doing this to piss off sellers (I happen to believe that we have every right to resell an original tape that we have purchased as long as we sell it in the original sleeve and non-modified - same as software on CD). I am doing this simply to add ammunition to my case that eBay uses a double-standard when ending auctions and suspending members.
You know what I am seeing?
eBay typically will end these auctions by the small time sellers, yet allow them to continue for their big time sellers. On the ones they don't want to end, they tell me that unless they are contacted by the copyright holder, there is nothing they can do. A blanket statment from the copyright holder that clearly states that the sales of ANY of their products on eBay is against the law, which SafeHarbour has in their possession, is apparently not good enough.
I haven't seen ANY suspensions yet of the small time sellers though - only removal of their listings from the database.
I suspect Joice's auctions were ended as a result of a complaint from a competitor.
Joice, just out of curiosity, were you a small time seller before they banished you? And did you try to relist the software after being told it was a no-no?
posted on March 7, 2001 06:34:02 AM
Maybe this experience that I had will shed some light on the subject. I discovered a few years ago, that while MS cries alligator tears over the "billions" that they lose to illegal software, the biggest producer of illegal software is MS themselves.
Here's how I found out:
A client of mine, a large transportation company, asked me to give them a quote on 300 licenses of MS Office. I contacted my authorized MS distributor and got a price. In the meantime, the client made a few calls and discovered that they can buy it direct from an MS distributor for less than my cost. Why? Because MS made a special deal with NY State that includes any company even remotely connected to NY State and my client got to ride along on this deal.
So point one: MS wants software resellers and computer dealers to only offer legit software, then they go and make deals direct with the end user for less than the dealer pays. MS also makes deals with the larger computer sellers like Gateway. So they can offer a system that includes MS software that would cost a smaller dealer a few hundred extra to offer. So how does the smaller dealer compete? He sells the computer without this software and tells the customer to find it elsewhere (wink, wink).
Then I saw a company on the Internet called Microsoft Deals offering shrink wrapped MS Office 2000 for $60, guaranteed genuine. I ordered one and got a sealed CD with a key. I called MS to ask how this was possible. MS told me that even though the software was legit, it was illegal for me to use it. Come again? It seems that MS provides their authorized deales with complete packages including license, manual and software. A company can buy 300 licenses but only 5 copies of the CD. This leaves the dealer with 295 copies of the CD. Now the dealer turns around and sells these as "legitimate MS software" (which it is) but there is no license, so MS considers it piracy. Does MS really expect end users to understand this? If MS wanted to stop this piracy, then MS should:
1) stop making end runs around their legitimate dealers by selling direct to end users
2) control the process by which licenses are sold to make sure that unsold CDs are returned
3) stop making side deals that give some dealers huge advantages over others and force others into recommending that folks pirate software
When MS whines about piracy, I wish I could tell them, "I have seen your enemy and it is you."
posted on March 7, 2001 07:33:36 AMIt is against eBay's rules to sell ANY software on CD-ROM, unless you are the copyright owner. So, even legitimately purchased CD-ROM software cannot be resold on eBay.
Excuse me, but this is inaccurate information! Please go here and read about software:
It is against eBay's rules to sell software that is on a CD-R or a CD-RW unless you are the copright owner.
jlady ~ you said that the software was for the cds only with the registration key. This means no box, no manuals, no other documentation? Is there any assurance that these cds were not academic versions?
posted on March 7, 2001 08:20:44 AM
Wow...just read the software page and the software-on-CDR page. Could they be any more anal? Did anyone cry fowl about the ban on software compilation CD's? That policy clearly bans the sale of shareware CD's that I see being sold all over Ebay. One seller in particular has a CD of PDA shareware that he regularly and frequently runs. What's the loophole? Not stating that it's a CDR?
One can publish a compilation CD of shareware that's not only legal but has the software copyright owner's blessing yet Ebay claims these type of products would be illegal just because of the CD-R format?
, we end the auction.