posted on March 9, 2001 11:44:12 AM new
This looks to me like "VIRTUAL RESERVE" puts a bid on your auction to up the bids, to meet your acceptable amount, which I do not think is nice or fair. Only my interpratation(excuse my spelling).
posted on March 9, 2001 11:46:05 AM new
Well, it sounds to me like it's an automated cancellation service, just like esnipe's automated bidding service. So many buyers don't like reserves that they won't bid, but this protects (?) you from having to sell something at a price that's lower than you really want (and you don't have to be at your computer near the ending time to do it yourself). However, I would think that you wouldn't want to alienate bidders by cancelling an auction minutes before it ends. Especially if you end up relisting and the same people bid on it and get cancelled again!
posted on March 9, 2001 11:46:11 AM new
The way I understand it, is instead of paying Ebay $1 to list your item with a reserve (so if your item doesn't sell at the price you want you don't have to sell it), Vrane will put a "virtual reserve" on your auction.
Say you list a "virtual reserve" of $100 on an item. (Not an EBAY reserve). Then you can start your auction at a penny (and, of course, only pay the 30¢ fee). If at the end of your auction (say 1 hour before it ends) if your bids did not go up to $100 "Virtual Reserve", somehow Vrane will be able to cancel all bids on your auction and end the auction early - so it will look like NO bids were placed. That way you don't have to sell the item at the ending bid.
I don't like it at all. For starters, it looks like Fee Avoidance. Second - what about all those people who bid on the item and they thought they were going to get the auction at the price they bid?
posted on March 9, 2001 11:52:13 AM new
My question is: What's the difference if you do that same thing manually?
After all, it is perfectly legal if you cancel all bids near the end of the auction'cause you felt the price you got was not enough and you don't want to sell the item at that price.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:20:22 PM new
EG; I agree with you, this is very unfair to the bidders bidding in good faith. If something I wanted got cancelled at the last minute that seller would never see me again. I have seen sellers put in their TOS that they reserve the right to cancel an auction if there are no bids 1 hour before end to prevent sniping but that they would honor any bid once placed, that takes the fun out of sniping but seems a bit more fair.
>>>You should only cancel bids if you have a good reason to. Also, please remember that bids cannot be reinstated once they've been canceled. Here are a few examples of a legitimate cancellation:
You want to end your auction early because you no longer want to sell your item. In this case you must cancel all bids on your auction before ending the auction
I never said anything abour the fairness or the morality of the issue. I myself would be really be steamed if a seller pulled out a stunt like this on me, but sadly, there would be nothing I could do.
The only kind of person I can imagine saying this sounds fine is the kind who must practice this behavior.
Don't worry, never needed to use reserves, as I sell fairly cheap items.
------------------------------------------------------------ How can they hear, when you're screaming in digital?
posted on March 9, 2001 12:28:59 PM newPreacher4u is correct, according to eBay's rules, this is perfectly acceptable.
And I've seen eBay reps state just that on the eBay boards.
I would think from a business perspective, it's a dumb idea, but it's legal in eBay's eyes.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:38:19 PM new
BTW - For some of you that haven't been eBaying that long. There was a time when eBay allowed the SELLER to place 1 bid during the course of the auction. Some sellers would bid on the item themselves if it didn't appear like it was going to end at the amount they had hoped for.
Sniping your own auctions, with your seller ID, now there's a twist.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:38:47 PM new
you should think of "virtual reserve" as one possible defense against "snipers"
note that the site also facilitates "sniping" and some of the sellers don't like sniping. it's only fair that a completely opposite tool is provided to balance the equation
posted on March 9, 2001 02:32:50 PM new
I don't understand how this works. VR will attempt to snipe your auction but no bids will be placed?? HUH??
If you don't complete the bidding process you don't know how high your proxy will end up. Say the current bid is $10. VR puts in a snipe at $100. Unless the "accept bid" button is pushed, VR won't know if their virtual snipe has reached the seller's virtual reserve.
This doesn't make any sense at all. Another thing, did they register an eBay ID in order to place this virtual snipe??
I like some of Vrane's tools but this one sounds more than a little weird.
posted on March 9, 2001 02:47:31 PM new
From Vrane's description:
"If eBay does not repond the request from our server at the time VR cannot take any action on your behalf."
First, that doesn't read well. I guess it's was intended, to my guess, to read,
If eBay does not respond to the request from our server at the time VR cannot take any action on your behalf.
Second, that's the danger. If eBay is down in the action timeframe, the VR can't be carried out. The $1000 clock put up for 1 cent example the used could leave the seller out in the cold. They do emphasize the risks up front, though, so I guess it's the sellers' choice.
Third.... How, just out of curiosity, can the following actually work? "VR will attempt to snipe your own auction using the amount you set. NOTE NO BIDS WILL ACTUALLY BE PLACED." (capitalization theirs)
How can someone "attempt" to snipe without placing a bid? Normally, I'd have thought the only way to achieve something similar would be to place a bid (snipe in this case) and then retract it immediately, hoping that in the seconds or moments between the two, that the eBay server doesn't go down.
As a bidder, though, I'd not appreciate the rug being pulled out from under me. I expect that barring extraordinary circumstances (e.g. a hurricane wipes out the seller's house), or circumstances such as a bid being placed by a prior deadbeat (in which case the seller generally only retracts that bid, not the whole auction), that putting an item up for auction and the first bid being made represents something that shouldn't be retracted. I never bid on auctions that say "subject to availability," and I certainly wouldn't want to bid on an auction that might vanish for no upfront reason. JMO. [Edited to add: that'd be kind of like in a RL auction, the auctioneer on "going once," and the original seller jumping up and saying, "stop the bidding, I want the item back." ]
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What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
[ edited by dc9a320 on Mar 9, 2001 02:48 PM ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Mar 9, 2001 02:49 PM ]
posted on March 10, 2001 09:21:51 PM new
Hmm... let's think about this for a second.
Bidders bid on an item which shows no reserve. Bidders bid high, and bid often, just to win this item.
The last day of the auction and for some reason they are hoping to be high bidder on this item because:
1) They want the item?
2) They need the item?
3) The item is for a gift?
And then.. after all that bidding & hoping to be high bidder, one hour before the auction ends, the seller retracts all bids and closes the auction because it did not go for what they wanted.
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on Mar 10, 2001 09:36 PM ]
posted on March 10, 2001 10:25:51 PM new
That's not the point. We're talking about the fairness to the BIDDER.
Perhaps the seller should have thought that through before starting the bid so low. Maybe the seller should have started his minimum bid higher, or listed it with a reserve.
Why should the bidders miss out on the auction they wanted because the seller was too cheap to pay for a reserve, or start the bidding at a price they would accept for it?
posted on March 10, 2001 10:47:25 PM new
many times it is not a matter of being to cheap to pay the reserve fee. It has to do with the psychology of bidding. The seller is aware that many bidders will not bid on a reserve auction, even if the reserve is very reasonable. And the seller is also aware that a high opening bid can turn bidders away too.
The seller is also aware that the auction process is dependant on a lot of luck...the luck of the right bidders seeing the auction.
It may be a bad business move to shut down an auction early (in my opinion it IS bad business) but the seller has to be fair to himself too. An auction transaction should be a win win situation...a win for the buyer who gets an item at a good price and a win for the seller who gets a good return on his investment.
posted on March 11, 2001 04:00:02 AM new
In the past, if a seller retracted all bids and cancelled an auction at the last minute he risked getting negative feedback from irate bidders. And that's because, even though some insensitive sellers might not think it is unfair to the bidders, the BIDDERS certainly felt it was unfair! Of course, now that that all feedback must be transactional, there is no longer a disincentive for sellers to treat bidders unfairly like this. Well, unless they are a seller who happens to care about his or her reputation -- I think most bidders would learn to avoid these sellers like the plague once they discovered the way the seller did buisiness [or didn't do business, as the case may be....]
The part that worries me about all this is "VR will attempt to snipe your own auction using the amount you set. NOTE NO BIDS WILL ACTUALLY BE PLACED." As others have mentioned, I don't see how anyone can "attempt" to snipe without actually placing a bid. I wonder if this means they actually place a bid and then immediately retract it? If so, this would definitely be considered shilling, since they were bidding on behalf of the seller.
Oh -- and as for this virtual reserve being a defense against sniping, I think that would only work [if at all] if were clearly stated in the description that the auction would be ended early if the reserve isn't met. Remember -- the goal isn't to prevent snipers from bidding at all, it's to convince them to bid earlier instead of sniping. Even a snipe bid is better than no bid at all....
Barry
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on March 11, 2001 06:53:07 AM new
How is anything unfair when someone conduct her business the way she sees fit? Give me a break!
Nobody has to know why you cancel the auction! I can think of many acceptable phrases you can put in the "explanation"
As for people avoiding such sellers no seller would be foolish enough to do that with each and every items. Even if someone is doing it frequently it would also be terribly hard to prove.
Most reasonable buyers I've come across are very understanding when a seller cancels the auction because the bid is not high enough. Please notice the bold face.
And.. I've come across many auctions when the seller promises to void the auction if the ebay is down near the end time. In such cases the seller is protecting her investment just the same. Why don't people scream and yell and protest and say that the seller should use the reserve and pay a reserve fees of $1 to eBay just in case eBay goes down.
posted on March 11, 2001 07:16:31 AM new
At every B&M auction I have been to one of the terms is that the auctioeer has the right to reject any bid not commensurate with the item's value.
The auctioneers frequently pull an item because the bid is not moving to the point that the auctioeer thinks is fair. I have had items pulled by an auctioneer that I was bidding on...can't remember being angry about it. Dissapointed, yes...but angry? No. I didn't think it was unfair.
Every user of ebay should have read the TOS before they started using ebay. Part of those TOS is the right for the seller to end the item early if he so choses.
As for the Vrane tool...how can they snipe but not bid? And what did they mean about the seller having to have been on ebay at least a year and knowing the right questions to ask?
[ edited by amy on Mar 11, 2001 07:18 AM ]
posted on March 11, 2001 07:23:29 AM newI've come across many auctions when the seller promises to void the auction if the ebay is down near the end time
That's against eBay's rules, and if reported, will usually be acted upon by Safe Harbor.
