posted on March 16, 2001 11:13:48 AM
Is that what you call them? Templates? You know, the pre-programmed, decorative framework that sellers use to showcase their items in the "Item Description" portion of the eBay auction page?
I'm speaking as a bidder here and hoping/thinking sellers might listen. I just spent about an hour browsing items on eBay and was overwhelmed by the number of pages I called up where the seller used a template.
These templates are often colorful, geometrically designed and look a little like the cyber version of a window display. Around Christmastime a lot of sellers were using one that had snowflakes, etc.
I don't know if you sellers realize this, but those templates seem to triple, even quadruple the length of time it takes for the page to load. This is NOT a good thing.
In the past I have seen many threads here where buyers complain about sellers who gussy up their pages with animated gifs, midi files and other doodads -- primarily for the reason that such contrivances slow up the loading process.
Well, guess what? The auction templates are doing the same darn thing! I don't have all day to sit here and wait for your page to load. At least five times today I closed a page well before it was done loading. One template even caused a general fault error on my computer. Adding to the template problem are the logos for Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Bidbay, whatever. All of these things are reducing the loading process to a crawl.
Please, keep it simple. That's what bidders really appreciate. A good description, a couple nice photos. Period. A template doesn't make your product look better. It doesn't make it more valuable. All it does is frustrate the bidder by slowing him/her down. In my opinion, anyway.
posted on March 16, 2001 11:20:27 AM
I agree!!!100%
Last night I was perusing the closing almost immediatly listings in my catagory and came upon some of those template auctions you are talking about. They load so slowly that if there are only three minutes left in the auction there is no way for a person to load it, take a good look and decide what to bid. Almost everything I buy I buy from this page and so when I hit these auctions I just back out and move on.Time is money-you waste my time with these colorful auctions.
I find the templates also cause me great delays when I'm doing the refresh/reload during the last minute of an auction I'm trying to snipe. It's infuriating. Sometimes after seeing how long it takes to load the page, I make a mental note to not even consider sniping that particular auction -- and since sniping is how I bid, those auctions get no bid from me at all.
posted on March 16, 2001 11:33:41 AM
I know what you mean. sometimes hitting "stop" will work but lots of times it doesn't. I don't exactly snipe but most of my bids are placed in the last five minutes of an auction. These sellers are doing themselves no favor by adding so much cr*p to their pages. I sell too but I keep it very simple!Most of the bids on my auctions come in in the last five minutes as well so I am not the only one!If my page doesn't load fast I lose bids!
posted on March 16, 2001 11:33:47 AM
There are very few auction templates that are even that attractive. And why do people think that a dark background is readable? Red and yellow lettering do not cut the mustard. Andale's templates are the worst for that.
I don't even bother reading through anything that has a coloured background and coloured lettering. There are very few items that are unique on eBay and I would rather find something that is readable and doesn't take minutes to load.
A professional auction is, quite frankly, minimalist in nature! White backgrounds are best. Headings can be attractively coloured, but the text should be black. Not red or green. Black. You can have a table with a border, but clouds and butterflies and anything that looks like mustard is back button material!!
posted on March 16, 2001 11:51:44 AM
The increasingly widespread use of templates got me to wondering why so many sellers are using them. Surely they all can't be thinking the templates look good. I've never used a template myself, but I suspect that sellers find them easier to use -- you know, like canned foods. Maybe they just have to fill in certain spaces on the template and press "Submit" and the page is done.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:00:45 PM
Reddeer, You are probably right,it isn't just the template causing the slow loading. It does seem that the same sellers that use templates use a lot of javascript and GIF and counters and g*d only knows what else.
I can't afford cable yet, but my sister has it and her pages still load slow sometimes.
You may be able to convince people to stop using templates, here at AW, but that is a very small percentage of ebay users. In order to make better times on snipes....... simply set your browser to "not view pictures/images". Both Netscape and MSIE have this feature. Then all you'll be loading is straight code and no ebay images and nothing coming from an outside source.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:03:44 PM
Rosiebud, That is ok if you have seen the item ahead of time.
The catagory I look in is huge many,many sub-catagories. I either look at new today or closing today. No time to do both. If it's closing today and in a few minutes I would like to see the picture so I know if I want to bid.
edited to add:
Why should it be up to the buyer to do things to make a sellers page load faster? If they want my last few minutes bid they better make their own page load faster!
posted on March 16, 2001 12:09:55 PM
rawbunzel ~ actually it's very doable and can be done in less than a minute. Typically I surf with Netscape.. but I'll bid with MSIE.
Let's say I'm in an ebay mood and I'm on ebay.. and I find something I want. It takes me 25 seconds to have MSIE opened up (it's already presetup to not load images because i'm in a bidding/sniping mood) copy/paste the URL from netscape into MSIE. I've seen the pic in one browser.. I don't need to see it in the other. There is time to do both unless you've found your dream auction with less than 1 minute on the clock.
My cable company is horrible -- and it's the only game in town. My cable TV goes out if it rains. Can't imagine placing my access to the internet in their hands.
That aside, I have no doubt that it's the templates hanging me up. I have no trouble with non-template pages. When I get to a template page I have to sit here and watch the various jpg's that comprise the thing load one by one by one. It's maddening.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:16:28 PMWhy should it be up to the buyer to do things to make a sellers page load faster? If they want my last few minutes bid they better make their own page load faster!
posted on March 16, 2001 12:27:23 PM
ecom, So what you are saying is that by my backing out and not bidding on those template auctions and only bidding on those without them I am getting much better deals on the items I buy. HMmmm. Something to consider.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:27:58 PM
Maybe it depends what kind of computer you have and how fast it is? We have 3 computers we use and we are on cable and most auctions with templates seem to load in just a few seconds.
I do notice though that backgrounds are often the problem. Sometimes they cause the page to freeze or hang for a bit. Many times I click into an auction and all of a sudden the whole page stalls and then turns a bright or dark or patterned color and it is hard to read anything.
Fonts: Script, and anything other than New Times Roman, Helvetica, Arial, or "normal" typeface.
Font Size: Anything larger than 12 point in the description, and 14 point in the title.
TOS: First thing I see and more than 4 sentences.
Images: The size of New Jersey, or 38 x 38 pixel button size. Any IPIX image.
At the bottom of a page the legnth of a roll of TP.
Not cropped, out of focus, too dark, washed out, colors wrong, (Looked at an auction today. The book cover was green, but the description reads that it is really blue. How does *that* work?)
Thumbnails. I know they load faster, but if the images are done properly you don't need thumbnails. I want to look at one page. I don't want to keep clicking and clicking.
"Click for larger image" and the same image appears. For God's sake take out the "Click for larger image" if it is the same image!
Auctions I won't bid on even with a gun to my head
Comet Cursors: You don't want to know...
Pop Up Windows
Music
Power Seller Logo if it is the first thing I see or the largest, clearest image on the page.
The first glimpse of an Andale template.
More than 2 dancing gifs.
Auctions with so much crap I have to hunt around to find the description or the images.
Auctions with no description. (Could be there but if I can't find it in about 10 seconds I am gone.)
Auctions descriptions: "See Picture" "Picture says it all". "If it wasn't for the 5 chips, 3 hairlines, and flaking paint, it would be mint." "Broken into 5000 pieces and re-glued, but other wise in great shape."
Shipping: "Professional packing and shipping a zillion dollars. Not negotiable. If you are too cheap to pay for packing and shipping don't bid".
As I was saying templates are the tip of the iceberg.....
[ edited by smw on Mar 16, 2001 12:32 PM ]
posted on March 16, 2001 12:29:57 PM
I don't use templates. And I consistently outsell my competitors who do by as much as 300%. Read what you will into that.
LOL, on second thought, maybe I should have entitled this thread "Please Keep Using Templates!"
posted on March 16, 2001 12:31:18 PM
ecom -- There's templates and then there's templates! Every efficient seller should have a "template" -- but the preformatted ones like Andale with the ugly colours and the tabs and the boxes ect. are what can make an auction look like Heinz's Ketchup.
Doesn't affect load time per se, but when I see an auction design that looks like an eyesore I won't even look at what they have to sell.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:31:27 PM
Spaz, that's a bummer about the cable company. I've been pretty lucky with mine.
BUT, even with cable I've hit pages that take 3-4 minutes to fully load. Not too sure what those sellers are thinking about?
ecom
I beg to differ. I've been selling on eBay for close to 4 years, and have never used a template. Many times I will watch several items just like mine end at less than half the amount mine did, and at least some of those other sellers used templates.
And speaking from a buyers perspective, all I'm interetsed in is clear precise pics, and a well written description.
I take great personal offense to your thumbnails comment!
Seriously, for some of the items I sell it would take 5 minutes for the page to load if I didn't offer thumbnails. Thumbnails at least give the buyer the *option* of taking a closer look if they so desire.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:37:53 PMThumbnails. I know they load faster, but if the images are done properly you don't need thumbnails. I want to look at one page. I don't want to keep clicking and clicking.
Amen!!!
Maybe this is a useful feature in some categories, but not for the one I buy in. When I click on your auction, I've already decided that I want to see your item, not some barely identifiable blob with a note to "Click for larger image", and then have to wait for another page to load.
edited to add (after seeing reddeer's post above)...
In the category I'm talking about, a seller would practically never need more than two images, and if a buyer is interested in the item based on the title (assuming it is an accurate title), he'll want to see the full size images anyway.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Mar 16, 2001 12:42 PM ]
posted on March 16, 2001 12:53:46 PMI've hit pages that take 3-4 minutes to fully load
Wow, now that is patience. I hardly ever wait that long and if it is taking too long to load I just back out and move on. I also use Cable though and don't expect long load times.
I can't imagine trying to browse some of these auctions without cable, must be murder.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on March 16, 2001 12:53:56 PM
I don't think templates in general are the problem. It's the bad templates which make us say "eek!" and back out of an auction. They have too much fancy stuff for its own sake, too many effects and doodads, and/or bizarrely concocted color schemes.
A good template (simple and attractive, just like any other good web page) will help the auction it contains. Good packaging *is* very imporant. Most people are more willing to buy junk wrapped up in a pretty package than something elegant surrounded by garbage.
posted on March 16, 2001 01:37:10 PMMost people are more willing to buy junk wrapped up in a pretty package than something elegant surrounded by garbage.
I would hardly describe the original eBay white background and page format as "garbage."
But I guess if you only have junk to sell, then you have to take extraordinary measures.
posted on March 16, 2001 02:02:10 PM
I am glad you started this thread.I hate waiting for pretty backgrounds to load so I can get to the pictures of the item.I usually just hit the back button and move on to the next auction.I never use them in my auctions and sales are fine.
posted on March 16, 2001 02:17:00 PM
The reason templates load slowly is that they contain images within tables. This is compounded by "nested" tables (tables within tables). If you omit the WIDTH and HEIGHT attributes in your code, your browser must load the entire image before the table can display. There is no doubt that templates that use images set inside tables load slowly (very slowly for large images).
If you are viewing your own ad, you may not realize this because your photo may already be on your computer's hard drive in the Internet cache. Your computer will load this image instead of downloading it from the web, so the ad loads fast for you, but slow for everybody else.
From an aesthetic point of view, I think templates look a little cheesy, but I do give sellers credit for trying to "spruce up" their ads. But most templates are nothing more than a colored border, and an excuse for some third party to place an ad at the bottom of your item description.
If you're creating your own templates, think carefully about placing images within tables. They may look pretty, but they take much longer to load.
but most of my bids are placed in the last five minutes of an auction. These sellers are doing themselves no favor by adding so much cr*p to their pages. I sell too but I keep it very simple!Most of the bids on my auctions come in in the last five minutes as well so I am not the only one!If my page doesn't load fast I lose bids!
