posted on March 17, 2001 10:47:30 AM
eBay in it's infinite wisdom (or lack there of) has just reinstated Shill Ring Member #1!!!
This is the real storefront that was the leader of the 33 Id Member Shill Ring... I don't think this was a first offense because they have been a Member since Wednesday, Nov 17, 1999 and their other ID has been a Member since Saturday, Apr 24,1999 But it appears that eBay has ruled this a "first offense" and removed the suspension.
Now I have two questions...
1. How does eBay track how many offenses have been made?
In this case there were 33 ID's and out of these - 6 of the ID's were for the same exact person and 2 others ID's were for another same person.
For the one with the 6 ID's - ID #5 was NARU'd. This ID#5 was listed as the previous ID for #6 in the USER ID HISTORY
#6 was not automatically NARU'd when #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 were.
I had to send three followup emails to SafeHarbor and over two weeks later, eBay finally NARU'd #6. It appears that there system did not automatically link #5 to #6 even though they can be tracked on USER ID HISTORY.
If I had not called attention to this.... would the records indicate that ID #6 had never been involved in Shill and Shield Bidding?
2. In the case of a first offence, why aren't the "newer" ID's suspended indefinately and the oldest ID reinstated?
In the other "2" ID#s - the older - Apr-24-99 of the 2 accounts - #2 is still NARU'd but #1 - Nov-17-99, (the newer account and the account that is linked to the real
storefront / domain name) has been reinstated. #1 and #2 were both Shill and Shield Bidders and left feedback for each other when they are the same person.
While I truely do not believe this is a first offence for ID #1... If you follow eBay's logic, shouldn't eBay have "reinstated" the older of the 2 ID's, in this case ID#2, so that the older original member would have had a "clean slate" to start from?
posted on March 17, 2001 11:02:53 AM
could you forward id's to me at [email protected]? I will give more input after I see the id's in question.
From what you have posted, I do have to wonder what in the world is ebay thinking?
Is this part of the ring that has just been indited for fraud for over 1100 auctions for shill bids? If so, ebay has really screwed up here.
I also think that there is a difference between a "first offense" that should be forgiven, and this "first offense."
If a person shop lifts for the first time, and is truely remorseful, goes to therapy, makes restorations, this is a "first offense."
If a person has been shop lifting for years, stolen thousands of items, is finally caught, should this be considered the first offense? NO!
33 ebay id = an incredible amount of time, energy and intent on defrauding bidders. Why this seller is allowed back on ebay is beyond me.
Ebay continues to state that they are not responsible for fraud on ebay. Yet when they knowingly and willingly let sellers who have known to have committed fraud back on ebay, I don't know how they can still say they are not responsible.
Kelly
[ edited by kellyb1 on Mar 17, 2001 11:09 AM ]
Okay back to the drawing board!
Resent both contact infos and InterNic Link and pointed out the same names on all three.
Resent all of the other ID's involved - all 33
Resent all auctions involved - 50
Asked why this ID wasn't permanently NARU'd
Asked why, if they applied eBay's "permanently NARU all new ID's and leave the original one" guideline, wasn't the other older ID reinstated and this newer ID permanently NARU'd.
posted on March 20, 2001 10:28:39 PM
Nothing new today... no email from SafeHarbor...
No new Auctions have been liste yet by shill ring member #1 who was reinstated.
Enterviewed by The Industry Standard Magazine, yesterday. Don't know if anything will come from it... here's a link from one of their recent articles: http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,22875,00.html
posted on March 21, 2001 01:08:00 AM
hey codanomore:
You may want to get an index page in your file /auctions.
hint hint
hmmm...see that you have one, but for some reason I get a directory when I default to /auctions
which may reveal files that you aren't want'ting to release to the public.
[ edited by capriole on Mar 21, 2001 01:25 AM ]
posted on March 21, 2001 09:59:22 AM
Being nosy and actually wanting to know the names so I don't get taken advantage of, I visited the ebaygaragesales web site. Very interesting. After reading it, I did a search on the ID and there they were starting again. I reviewed a few of the auctions and I was a little amazed at how many low feedback people that are no longer registered bid on this persons auction. (not) Then I noticed that some of the 'old' players are in the game again. IMHO this person is continuing where they left off previously.
I think the people at ebay need to review the garagesale website and take a look at this person's auctions and the other people that were/are involved. This is serious or is it that Meg and company like to see themselves on the front page of the newspaper? Perhaps they consider publicity in any form a good thing.
posted on March 21, 2001 03:03:11 PM
coda,
I understand what you are saying. I just wanted to give you a heads up, because if you have info that is "behind" the index.htm page that is in the auction folder that you DON't want revealed, then you may want to look into it.
BUT maybe I missed the point entirely, hehehe.
On a page I webmaster for a non-profit, I may load pages ahead of time to test them on different platforms, browsers etc before I am ready for the world to see.
I know you can control it with unix commands if you have that kind of access to the server, if they use unix, or have the server forbid access to the folder except from the visible pages.
It's been a while since I've done this in unix.
Good luck!
posted on March 21, 2001 08:32:40 PM
Capriole-
Yes, you did kinda miss my point and no I don't have anything else in that directory... everything is public. But thanks for your concern. I never ever post anything on the server side unless it is ready for public release... 'bots patrol and list all of the time. So if you are going to post to test, always put in the tag - "<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW">" until they are ready for "primetime" so to speak.
I've been in the systems world for 26 years now with the last 7 on the Web side.
Nice to see another "helpful" spirit :-}
I do hope none of you have a need to use this site. It was done at the request of many of my eBay friends who have struggled with their own investions and reportings to eBay's SafeHarbor.
The reason that I am so concerned by this situation is because I am "in the biz" and know what are the "standard" security procedures that need to be implemented on and what kind of security software is available for eBusinesses. And eBay fails miserably in meeting industry standards.
As I have said before-
As far as I'm concerned, I am ashamed that eBay calls the Bay Area home and appalled that they don't take advantage of the good security software architects and software packages that are available in their own Silicon Valley backyard.
Please note that I am no longer bidding on eBay and will not bid again until eBay implements Proactive Security features and tries to become ethically responsible to their "Community".
It has just come to my attention that two of your previous posts contained a URL to a site that lists identifying information about a private individual. This is a violation of our Community Guidelines, and I have deleted the posts. Please do not post such information again.
posted on March 22, 2001 11:40:32 PM
I actually got to talk to a real live person at eBay!!!!
On Wed. 3/21/01 I got response from my email to Nessie at SafeHarbor
with the same-
"#1 & #2 have different names and address. We do not have enough proof to suspend at this time."
J**
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
Made me wonder how J*y gets through life not being able to read. So I tried to call him... I left a message on the general customer support voice mail asking him politely to call me.
Didn't hear back from good ol' J*y via telephone but got an email response back from:
Ar**nn*
SafeHarbor Team
"Thank you for your recent call to eBay.
Since eBay is an online company, our support is primarily provided
through email. Due to the need for investigation and each member's
privacy concerns, we do not offer the option of phone support for Trust
and Safety.
If you would like to report auction or a member violation, please send
us an email with your questions or concerns."
I still had some gumption left so I dug out the response I got after my third request to NARU #33. I remember being surprised because the eBay staff member had signed with their first and last names. So I dialed again and used the alpha find by last name to get to their personal voice mail and voila'...
On Wed. 3/21 I actually got a call back and got to talk to a real live person at eBay!!!!... in Salt Lake but what the hay....
Just a couple of facts to note...
She and I talked for about 25 minutes...
She was showed great professionalism and a willingness to address my concerns with eBay management.
She indicated that eBay had appeared to have made me run around quite a bit by having different staff members appear to be investigating the case and though the 33 member shill ring was not the largest one she had ever seen it was a significant one.
She stated I had gone above and beyond in providing the many eBay / SafeHarbor Staff I responded to with more than enough evidence to stop this ring.
She confirmed my suspecions that eBay staff doesn't open email attachments (even plain .txt files) so when you make your reports, you will have to include all evidence in the message body of your email. She agreed they should probably make this known to the eBay Community. So much for going to the trouble of attaching all of the 33 contact info .txt files...
She stated that she and other ebay staff would love to have cross checking software available for use during the membership registration process. She didn't think this would be added though considering the fact that it might restrict new members from buying immediately. But, she said, they have added some security software... couldn't discuss the particulars with me... and they are planing to add more.
Great improvements are on the way! she said.
Yes, she confirmed eBay had applied the "first offence" rule in reinstating Shill Ring Leader #1.
No, she couldn't tell me for sure if shilling occurances are adequately tracked especially in a case like #33 (if I hadn't of brought it to their attention would they have automatically NARU'd the new / current ID. if the "previously used" ID was NARU'd and if so when?)
Yes, she said, eBay would consider the wishes of the NARU'd first offense member and would allow them to choose which ID they wanted to be reactivated. This explains how the newer ID of the two matching members was reinstated. Of course, this is the one connected to personal domain name of the real storefront involved.
I responded that this it was quite obvious that the creation of this 33 Member Shill Ring was a premeditated felonious act and not the result of a "newbie" who was unfamiliar with standard auction rules. She responded, but would there be enough evidence in court to convict these people especially if the suspects charged that eBay was taking away their livelyhood. I responded that this guy has a real storefront and therefore another means to make a living. We both were both very civil and agreed to disagree during this exhange.
So in the end.....
Shill Ring Leader #1 gets to stay, until he is found to be shilling again or gets 33 more new ids to turn to.
She did say she thought I would be good working at eBay.... I responded that my standard professional Web consulting rate is very high... probably to high for eBay. They are lucky I haven't sent them a bill for all of the work I did on this case, I said..and she agreed.
She stated that yes, she did indeed want me to email her the (now up to)
14 Suggestions to Improve eBay Security and she would make sure they were reviewed by her co-workers and management.
So I emailed them to her last night.
I also included an open letter to eBay management which fully states my
personal concerns regarding eBay's handling of this 33 member Shill
Ring and their implementation of the new email and contact info policies prior to adding proactive security proceedures and standard security software. I ended the letter with this paragraph...
Again, please note that I am no longer bidding on eBay and will not bid again until eBay implements Proactive Security features and tries to become ethically responsible to their "Community". As one of the presenters on the Web Security Panel at the recent IBM / CNet "Gumbo" conference in New Orleans this year, I do have the capacity to give this matter a certain amount of publicity. With your recent decision to reinstate the leader of this shill ring, I am even more compelled to give this matter as much exposure as I can and will do so using both my personal and professional capacities.
So I think I hear many of you say enough already, let it go, get on with your life... so maybe I should.
But then again I have to live with myself, so maybe I'll just check in on eBay from time to time. I should probably keep myself updated on eBay's progress so that I can give a factual report when the time comes.
