dixiebee
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posted on March 17, 2001 02:15:39 PM new
I was reading the other thread about eppraisals and saw the note about compatibility of browers with their pictures. I have always used Netscape.
This week I was at another company where they use IE. We were talking about a particular project we were both working on and I mentioned that I had a small problem when I viewed the website via Netscape. I also mentioned that I incurred a different small problem when viewing with IE.
The owner of the other company says, "You should use IE all of the time" to which I replied "but I always have used Netscape." We got into an argument over which brower is best for viewing internet pages.
The best response I could come up with for using Netscape was "I just hate to be dependent on yet another Microsoft product and I have ALWAYS used Netscape."
The best response she could come up with for using IE was "It comes pre-loaded on every computer so more people have to be using it."
I didn't really think that either of us had a logical argument so I tried to use IE all day on Friday. My brower continually crashed and my pages wouldn't load. Then I switched to Netscape and had no problems.
I would love to hear other's reasoning for why you like IE or Netscape -- or what about an alternative browser?
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siddielou
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posted on March 17, 2001 04:31:40 PM new
Greetings!
My favorite alternative browser is Opera. It costs $35 (there is a shareware version out there that has less features). I think it can be downloaded from www.fileworld.com
As for Netscape or IE it used to make a difference before Netscape got eaten by AOL. I started out using Netscape exclusively, but found that it began crash frequently. When I upgraded there was an annoying little box that popped up every time it crashed asking me to fill out a survey telling them what happened. Oh, and the user set ups to make sure I could get as much spam as possible.
I use IE for almost everything now because it loads faster and is lighter than Netscape.
I haven't forsaken Netscape entirely, but I did make the mistake of downloading Netscape 6.0 That is one of the buggiest and slowest peices of software I have ever seen.
Wonder if this helps,
Sid.
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kathyg
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posted on March 17, 2001 05:02:21 PM new
I'm no fan of microsoft either, but consider this:
IE has the majority of the browser market share, by a good margin. Therefore website developers are going to optimize their pages for IE. There are a lot of little differences in the way that IE and NN interpret the underlying code - HTML, Javascript, CSS etc.
So if you choose to use NN, you are going to be loosing a lot. Just the way it is.
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on March 17, 2001 05:06:21 PM new
I use Mozilla build 0.7
from Mozilla.org
It's essentially the infamous open code Netscape 6 but a group of computer gurus are fixing the bugs one at a time. The final version isn't ready yet and won't be for a quite a while, but I like it.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 17, 2001 07:05:54 PM new
I have no particular feelings for Microsoft products one way or the other, but I've always figured that since every additional program I load on my computer is one more thing to go wrong, there's no sense loading any more software than necessary. IE already comes with the computer, and I don't see the point of adding yet another program that doesn't do any more than IE already does.
I've asked Netscape users more times than I can count to explain to me why I should use Netscape instead of IE, and the only answer I seem to get is "I don't like Microsoft". Sorry- that's not enough to convince me to switch.
I haven't yet figured out why people who don't like Microsoft use Windows in the first place- there are alternatives.
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smw
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posted on March 17, 2001 07:52:53 PM new
IE versus Netscape,,,,a very raw subject with me.
I don't like the Spawn of Redmond anymore than anyone else but I like IE better for the following reasons:
When I try to copy and past with NS it often doesn't work.
Netscape doesn't automatically fill in forms as IE does.
Netscape won't let me customize the tool bar.
Netscape won't let me choose my font size. All it will let me do is increase or decrease the size.
Netscape won't let me print a "selection", it prints the whole damm page. IE lets me print only what I select from a page.
I still can't figure out how to get rid of AOL Instant Messenger that Netscape insists on opening to my system tray. I have to close it all the time myself.
Netscape assigns names or numbers or whatever to the cookies and junk it caches and I never know what or who it is from when I try to look at it.
Netscape generates a permanent cookie file to my hard disk that I had a hell of time finding. It said this is a generated file, don't edit it, but I did and the world didn't end.
I tried to configure my mail with Netscape and it won't let me do anything until I choose a newsgroup. I don't want a newsgroup but I tried to choose one anyway and it still wouldn't work. So I use Outlook Express.
Netscape is a real PITA about HTML tags and viewing pages. IE is much more forgiving.
I set NS to save no history, but it does, and even when I manually delete the history it is still there.
I have no idea what roaming access is on Netscape or what if anything, I should do about it.
It seems to me that Netscape makes a lot of decisions for me about what it saves and how it works. IE lets me change just about everything to the way I want it to work. I also find NS to be awkward and cumbersome and requires a lot more clicking to use. I should mention that the only reason I even have Netscape on my system is because I was forced to install it to use a DSL service that has an agreement with NS. I should also mention that I have been a Beta tester for IE since IE 3 so I may be biased, a little.
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uaru
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posted on March 17, 2001 08:43:54 PM new
I prefer Netscape. Maybe my use of Mac is what started my Netscape use, but even on the PC it is my preference.
I will look at my templates with IE and AOL's browser to make sure the other browsers load things properly.
IE has been force feed to so many I don't think they even know there are other browsers. I was glad to see the justice department step in on MicroSoft's "company store" tactics.
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reddeer
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posted on March 17, 2001 09:00:29 PM new
I've always used Netscape as my primary browser, the main reason being that it seems to work best with eBay. Several of the eBay Pink people have told me that eBay was designed to work better with Netscape.
Go figure?
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Saffyland
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posted on March 17, 2001 09:45:19 PM new
I have a strong preference for Netscape, also!
1) It allows me to make the 'cookie' file read-only. Which means while a Netscape session is running, websites that demand I accept cookies are happy campers. But each time I close Netscape the cookies go "poof". It is useless to try to disable the IE cookie file, Windows overwrites your preferences.
2) I also use Netscape as my primary email program. Let some idiot send me a virus that is programmed to take over the IE Outlook address book ... they will find it empty 
3) I find moving back and forth between web pages much easier with Netscape. The information in the drop down 'Location' box is much easier to decipher than anything I have been able to find in IE.
4) Love, love, love the Personal Toolbar!!
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bhearsch
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posted on March 17, 2001 10:29:26 PM new
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but if you have version 6 of Netscape you probably have the Aureate spyware on your system. Please check your registry for Netscape starting\Curver and Netscape starting\CLSID. I'm not sure exactly where these keys are located because I use IE but if you just go into REGEDIT and do a FIND for "Netscape" and then keep hitting FIND NEXT you'll eventually come across those 2 keys. Also do a general search on your computer for *Aureate* to see if there are any .dlls and folders. There's been quite a bit of discussion in the GRC newsgroup about Netscape 6 and the Aureate spyware that is bundled with the browser download and everyone is very pissed!! Netscape 6 phones Aureate when you launch the browser.
You may want to download the free AdAware utility from LavaSoft to remove the Aureate components from your computer. http://www.lavasoft.de/aaw/
I really didn't want to say anything because I know how many folks love Netscape  but I just don't think you're going to want to upgrade to Netscape 6 unless they remove the garbage and if you already have it you can remove the garbage and the browser should still function.
Blanche
[ edited by bhearsch on Mar 17, 2001 10:31 PM ]
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kellyb1
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posted on March 17, 2001 11:36:40 PM new
I used to use Netscape and loved it, until I went online with my bank and it doesn't support Netscape (or Netscape doesn't support the site) and I had to switch over to IE. I have to say that at another location I view my auctions with netscape, and I can't see any difference as far as viewing goes.
People have posted some very interesting and thought provoking arguements for both sides of the issues. Thanks for starting this tread.
Kelly
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on March 18, 2001 05:44:37 AM new
>>> I also use Netscape as my primary email program. Let some idiot send me a virus that is programmed to take over the IE Outlook address book ... they will find it empty>>>
--------------
That is exactly why I don't use IE.
I got an email about 3 weeks ago that had a worm type virus in it. I didn't even know it was there until I ran my virus protection.
Turns out that the worm would not activate unless it was opened with Outlook Express.
Since it seems almost all horrible little worms and virus seem to feed off Outlook Express I will continue to Netscape Mail.
Also, I just simply don't like the look of IE.
http://www.geocities.com/sandcastless/crafts.html
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Empires
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posted on March 18, 2001 07:58:20 AM new
I like IE better than Netscape due to the features it offers with email etc. but don't use it due to it's vulnerability. Too many viruses have infected IE and such. Shame.
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on March 18, 2001 08:21:16 AM new
Mrpotatohead
With all the secret id strings Microsoft has been knowed to incorporate in their software (Word, Excel and others) I don't trust IE too much. That's on top of the virus factor brought up by others.
smw
Mozilla is based on the Netscape 6 Gecko engine and the first thing they did was to remove the AOL garbage. Cut and paste works in the address bar, unlike Netscape 6. You should find how to instructions on removing AOL for all versions on the Unofficial Netscape FAQ too.
I also believe Mozilla is clean from the Aureate garbage. I did a search with AdAware. I had six files positively id (Netscape 6). The Mozilla folder was clean. (thanks bhearsh)
Still it's work in progress and I use my old version on Netscape 4.76 for mail and news until it's finished and completely reliable.
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engelskdansk
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posted on March 18, 2001 08:23:32 AM new
I prefer IE for many reasons -- autocomplete, favorites folder, ect. I also have Netscape Communicator in case I need to troubleshoot someone's auctions. Bottom line - no problems with either (nothing ever crashes).
How to get rid of anything that shows up in the System Tray:
1. Click START button
2. Click RUN
3. Type MSCONFIG
4. Click OK
5. Click on the "Startup" tab
6. Maximize it
7. De-check anything you don't want loading, i.e., AOL Instant Messenger is called AIM.
8. After you are finished click OK. You will be asked if you want to restart but I always say no -- anyway, the next time you do START up the icons will not be in the tray.
What ticks me off is when you run a program ONCE and then it goes and puts itself in the Startup tray. Like Real Player. I play some music file that opens with Real Player AND then it goes behind the scenes and loads in Startup so the next time I reboot it is sitting in the tray....
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jwpc
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posted on March 18, 2001 08:31:33 AM new
Regarding IE vs. Netscape. There is no choice – it is IE for a multitude of reasons. Netscape doesn’t accept as wide a range of colors as IE. Beyond that, we have 2 large web sites, with counters on them, which gives us a infinite break down on who visits the site, where they request originated, what browser they are using, and 99% are using IE vs. Netscape.
I used Netscape for years and swore by it, till forced to make the change to IE – having experienced IE, and realizing that 99% of everyone who visits our sites or auctions is also using IE – I wouldn’t consider going back to Netscape – using IE is merely good business sense.
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naru
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posted on March 18, 2001 08:37:17 AM new
I use Netscape (not 6, heard too many nasty things about it) because I can use Composer to create web pages. Yes I could use Front Page, but I would rather shave my head with a cheese grator. Microsoft designed (or ripped off from Mac) a great OS. They then proceded to shove all sorts of large, badly designed programs down our collective throats.
I dislike Microsoft, because with their resources they could have brought wonderful software to the market. Instead they focused their attention and money on destroying competitors who were providing decent product. That said, I fear Netscape is not long for this world, especially having put out 6, not compatible with on line banking systems etc. Sigh.
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reddeer
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posted on March 18, 2001 09:19:49 AM new
I've been runing a tracking system on my ebay ME page since November. Here's the eBay stats so far ..............
Browsers
Unique Visitors
MSIE 5 369 - 47.36%
Netscape 4 321 - 41.20%
MSIE 4 52 - 6.67%
AOL 4 13 - 1.66%
WebTV 1 12 - 1.54%
Netscape 3 6 - 0.77%
Other 5 - 0.64%
Netscape 2 1 - 0.12%
Netscape 42.10% - MSIE 54.04% - Other 3.85%
Operating Systems
Unique Visitors
Windows 98 591 - 75.86%
Windows 95 116 - 14.89%
Macintosh 20 - 2.56%
Windows NT 17 - 2.18%
WebTV 13 - 1.66%
Windows 2000 9 - 1.15%
Other 8 - 1.02%
Linux 2 4 - 0.51%
Windows 3.1 1 - 0.12%
Windows 94.22% - Mac 2.56% - Unix 0.51% - Other 2.69%
Screen Resolutions
Unique Visitors
800x600 534 - 73.35%
1024x768 103 - 14.14%
640x480 56 - 7.69%
Other 26 - 3.57%
1152x864 6 - 0.82%
1280x1024 3 - 0.41%
Screen Colors
Unique Visitors
16 Bit (65K) 502 - 68.95%
32 Bit (16.7M) 125 - 17.17%
24 Bit (16.7M) 64 - 8.79%
8 Bit (256) 32 - 4.39%
Other 5 - 0.68%
There's more info that I glean from my tracking system, but this gives me a pretty good idea of the operating sytems that people are using that visit my auctions, or at least my ME page.
IE & Netscape users seem to be running neck to neck.
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naru
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posted on March 18, 2001 09:31:28 AM new
Thanks reddeer!
Very encouraging to a diehard Netscape user.
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reddeer
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posted on March 18, 2001 12:17:05 PM new
Glad to help a fellow Netscape user. 
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reddeer
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posted on March 23, 2001 11:14:15 AM new
bump
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minx47
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posted on March 23, 2001 02:10:30 PM new
I have always used Netscape...and recently used IE as a back up when Netscape (who lately has been acting up a LOT) went down. After reading this post...its sure started making me think...WONDERFUL info here....
bhearsch..How do you make a cookie file..read only as you mentioned earlier???
I use a GREAT program called cookie pal that manages my cookies hassle free but I am curious if maybe I should do what you suggested??
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bhearsch
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:17:34 PM new
Hi minx47. I don't remember saying that about the cookie file. Are you sure it was me? Can you find the post for me so I can refresh my poor memory? Thanks,
Blanche
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bhearsch
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:21:34 PM new
Nevermind. I think Saffyland is the one you need to talk to.
Blanche
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:33:18 PM new
Some of you are mentioning Netscape acting up a lot lately. I was wondering what exactly you mean by that. I have been having trouble with it loading lately myself.
My modem dials out just fine. Then the browser screen just sits there. Then finally it will say something like "Netscape can't find such and such page".
I have to totally get off-line, redial out and then usually it will load up no problems.
I thought it might just be an issue with my computer. It is new and I downloaded Netscape, so I thought maybe a file didn't download right or something.
Then a friend of mine called me and asked was I having trouble getting Netscape to load up!
She is having the same exact problem.
Neither one of us has ever had it before. So it strange to say the least.
So, is it just a glitch with us, or is this one the corny things that is happening with some of you?
http://www.geocities.com/sandcastless/crafts.html
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reddeer
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:37:14 PM new
My problem was due to a HD that was funged up. No problems with Netscape since the new HD went in.
Minx ........... I have no idea how to make cookies "read only" in Netscape? If you go to "Edit", then "Prefernces", then "Advanced" there are options for cookie settings.
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RainyBear
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:41:51 PM new
I like Netscape better than IE mainly because it just feels more "comfortable" to me. However, I usually use IE because at work Netscape makes my computer go flippy sometimes (doesn't play well with other applications), and at home I had to reinstall it and in the process lost all my bookmarks.
Benefits of Netscape:
- It will let you right-click on a picture and open it by itself so you know its URL.
- It will let you save a web page "as is," unlike IE, which automatically changes the html and saves all the files associated with it.
- You can stop loading your home page right away when your browser opens if you don't want to see it; no wait like with IE.
- It doesn't put folders in your bookmarks which it won't let you remove! That's a major beef I have with IE.
Benefits of IE:
- Autocomplete - I love this.
- If you want to have a web page and all the files associated with it saved together, and don't mind if the html gets changed in the process, IE does this.
I don't like Netscape Mail or Netscape Composer and I haven't used Outlook. I use Eudora (or AOL) for mail and 1st Page 2000 (or a text editor) for web pages.
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bhearsch
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:57:52 PM new
Hi rainybear. I'm not sure what you mean about IE not allowing you to save a web page as it is. I'm using IE5.5 and if I click on the FILE button on my browser's toolbar and click on SAVE AS I am given a number of choices. If I choose WEB PAGE COMPLETE (*.HTM *.HTML) the page will be saved just as it is and will look exactly the same as the page I was viewing. This function is also available in IE5.1.
Also, if you right click on a picture and then select PROPERTIES you will get the picture's address.
If you press the STOP button on your browser's toolbar you can also stop the page from loading.
Blanche
[ edited by bhearsch on Mar 23, 2001 03:59 PM ]
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RainyBear
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:23:37 PM new
Hi Blanche -- I was hoping someone would have a way to save html as a plain file in IE! Thanks. Guess I never looked at my options.
I've right-clicked on a picture in IE to get the URL plenty of times, but it's a real pain in the butt having to either try to remember the URL or write it down. It's nicer the way that Netscape lets you display it on its own, and that way the URL can be copied and pasted.
And about pressing "STOP" -- that's what I mean by IE is slower than Netscape that way. When I open Netscape and want to stop the page from loading it does so immediately when I press the button. IE takes a few seconds to bring up its annoying "This page cannot be found" message.
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violetta
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:16:23 PM new
My computer came with IE on it -- it was horrible -- crashed all the time, did strange things on its own without my permission. I finally managed to strangle the thing and get enough of it off my computer that it doesn't bother me anymore. Netscape was much better -- until AOL took it over. Now it is sluggish and 4.73 crashes fairly often. (Previous versions didn't crash.) Because of this I don't plan to upgrade any further. Bigger bells and whistles is not a better browser.
Netscape allows me to do what I want to about cookies and settings for javascript, java and other stuff. I will never allow IE on my computer -- just because of its vulnerability to virus and worms -- which Microsoft stupidly refuses to fix.
I HATE Microsoft!
My next computer is going to be a pure Microsoft virgin. I am going to use either a Mozilla or early Netscape version (I have a paid copy of 3.0, which is not bad) or other non-Microsoft browser and no Windows nor any Microsoft product.
I have used IE on my husband's work computer. It is harder for me to navigate and understand -- probably because I've been using Netscape since its very beginning, and its logic comes natural to me. My observations are that Netscape has now deteriorated to IE's level. And/or IE has improved almost to Netscape's level.
Netscape does allow me to change the bottom row of my task bar, by the way (for whomever said it wouldn't).
My opinion on web site building is that it is good business to accomodate the maximum possible number of users. So if you really want visitors and sales, you will make your site compatible with as many browsers as possible.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
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