posted on March 18, 2001 03:39:25 PM
Am I keyword spamming???
I received the following email from ebay this morning:
-----------------------------------------
Dear Richard Eddy ([email protected]),
We appreciate the fact that you chose to list the following auction(s)
with eBay:
CARBIDE ROUTER BITS FOR DREMEL ROTOZIP
Item #1221986886
However, your auction was violating one of our listing policies, and we would like to take this opportunity to explain what parts of your auction(s) are not allowed.
Your listing contains the following information, "...FOR DREMEL ROTOZIP...". We realize that you may not be aware of this policy, but Extra Brand Names in Title or Item Description in this way is considered "Keyword Spamming", which is not allowed on eBay. Although these auctions are in violation of our listing policies, we will allow them to run to their scheduled end as a one-time courtesy.
Keyword spamming is the practice of adding words, including brand names, which do not directly describe the item you are selling. The addition of these words may not have been intentional, but including them
in this manner diverts members to your listings inappropriately.
Keyword spamming is also unfair to members who may be searching for a specific item and receive search engine results of listings which are not selling these items. In addition, certain uses of brand names
may also constitute trademark infringement and could expose members to legal liability.
Methods of Key Word Spamming include, but are not limited to:
1. Extra Brand Names in Title or Item Description
2. Not Brand X, Not Brand Y
3. Improper Trademark Usage
4. Lists of "Key" Words
5. Hidden Text (White on white text, or hidden text in HTML Code)
6. Drop Down Boxes
Please view our guideline page for a better understanding of our auction policies and how they affect the way you list your items:
Future auctions listed that fail to meet our listing guidelines will be ended early and repeated violations may jeopardize your account status. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue our relationship, so we respectfully ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.
We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Regards,
Ranae
eBay Community Watch Team
([email protected])
-----------------------------------------
Is this keyword spamming? I have been listing these tools for over a year now, week after week on a consistent basis. Until now, I've never heard a complaint about this. Any ideas??
Seems to me I saw a thread in the last few weeks also dealing with key word spamming except that that person was selling hand-made outfits for certain dolls. Sorry I can't find the link for it as I'm sure much of it would be relevent to you.
Basically, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, unless you are actually selling an item made by that manufacturer, under eBay's spamming rules, you are not supposed to mention that maker's name in your title.
I know people do it all the time and get away with it. Seems that most times nothing happens unless someone specifically complains to SH about your auction.
posted on March 18, 2001 04:22:45 PM
I got one about a month ago, too for saying that a video game I had on was one of a set of three and I would be listing the other 2 shortly.
Unfortunately I had added it on later - and it did not come up in the search engine so it was not true.
I think I got it because it was mentioned in this forum - and I beat another seller's ending price by about $100!
I tried to comment about that email but it came back as undeliverable.
posted on March 18, 2001 04:35:47 PM
Sounds like bullsit to me. Most of us need to know what fits what! As, all along I've been trying to find a black cartridge for my canon printer, a bjc 8000 cartridge, since that is what the printer is.
Didn't know till I got the book the other day it took a BC-60!! (As, I didn't get it with a cartridge or book.)
Ebay is getting WAY too heavy handed. If I ever got a clue who was so petty, I would make a lifetime hobby of watching for infractions by screwballs like that.
Kind of sound like it gets my goat, huh? OOOPPPs,key word spamming for goat, now!
AND, it does in fact actually describe what you are selling! To my way of thinking!
[ edited by escandyo on Mar 18, 2001 04:37 PM ]
[ edited by escandyo on Mar 18, 2001 04:38 PM ]
I agree with you on needing to know what fits what. What are people supposed to say, "My widget fits a popular brand's machine that starts with R------"?
Some keyword spamming does cook my grits, though, the ones that say, "Great X Widget, not Y" just in order to get all the big names into someone's auction.
posted on March 18, 2001 06:30:03 PM
I guess the "reasonable man" standard should apply. If I had a copy of the video game "Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles" up for auction I suppose that it should be OK for me to list that it is for Playstation, Dreamcast, etc. If I didn't, I'd be fielding that question over and over again until the auction ended. And then, the winning bidder might still have assumed...
On the other hand, if I had the Eagles CD "Hotel California" for sale, it would be inappropriate for me to "explain" that it plays in CD players made by Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Aiwa, Pioneer, etc.
posted on March 18, 2001 06:55:03 PM
I agree, but.
WHY does Ebay call that keyword spam? If you can't specify what it works with, you'll end up with less sales, as buyers avoid buying to avoid the hassle of a return...or multiple questions.
Or, am I to assume, this is where Ebay wants us all to have extra pages linked to theirs to actually describe the item we are paying them to allow us to sell?
Doesn't sound to me like Ebay gives any allowance for "reasonable man standard."
posted on March 18, 2001 07:10:56 PM
On any given day you can see PAGES of stuff for Sony digital cameras, many of which are actually generic but they state Sony...blah blah blah. On a lot of them you have to really be diligent to find that they are not actually made by Sony.
I was looking at Limoges several times and found a lot of people put the name Limoges on their title even though they were just selling some cheap crap that was NOT Limoges. Wrote eBay & asked why they can do that and list the stuff actually in the Limoges sub category as well. eBay responded that there was nothing wrong.....
posted on March 18, 2001 07:41:43 PM
richeddy.....
Don't change a thing...that's an accurate title....and how do they know that your carbide router bits aren't made by Dremel for their Rotozip....?
Screw them...
Or zip, as the case may be....*G*
As someone who uses this kind of tool in his work, that's a distinction that I'd like to know...
You could just say carbide router bits, but then I'd have a half dozen different routers in the shop that they could possibly fit...all different collet diameters.
posted on March 18, 2001 08:14:35 PMpharlap: Yeah, and the thing that ticked me off the worst about it was the fact that they actually list this junk in the "Limoges" category. As far as I'm concerned, for good reason, that specific category should be limited to actual Limoges. What's so hard to understand about that? Anyway, it boggles the mind, so I can't spend too much time thinking about it! ha
It's considered keyword spamming for the simple reason that you're not selling a Dremel Rotozip. Somebody who is looking for Dremel-made products was annoyed by having your listing come up in their search and reported it.
You CAN say what the item is used for/works with in the description, just not in the title.
Checked your rep and auctions....you're a straight shooter from what I can see...
Can't wait for the VERO busybodies to descend on your other "name brand router bit" auctions you have running......methinks they have way too much time on their hands or some competitor of yours is tripping you up...
Leave 'em up man...If I was looking for a zipper, I'd want to see the bits right up there with the tools...
Just because it's policy doesn't mean it's right.....I guess I sound a little like one of the founding fathers of this supposedly free country...*G*
posted on March 18, 2001 11:58:53 PM
---------------------
Your listing contains the following information, "...FOR DREMEL ROTOZIP...". We realize that you may not be aware of this policy, but Extra Brand Names in Title or Item Description this way is considered "Keyword Spamming", which is not allowed on eBay. Although these auctions are in violation of our listing policies, we will allow them to run to their scheduled end as a one-time courtesy.
----------------------
Glenda
Not according to the email that I got from ebay...any mention of the brand name (even in the description) is a no-no.
sg52
My description reads "CARBIDE ROUTER BITS FOR DREMEL ROTOZIP"
So it should be OK, according to what you are saying...?
Again, referring to my example...can I not mention which video game system my video game is for? That is what ebay seems to be saying.
posted on March 19, 2001 04:45:42 AM
richeddy -
If the bits are 3rd-party ones made to FIT Dremel and Roto-Zip, you can't use them in your title. If they were made BY Dremel, you can put dremel in the title.
However, in the description you can say "Fits Dremel or Roto-Zip models xxxx" and not be "keyword spamming".
posted on March 19, 2001 10:09:30 AMSo it should be OK, according to what you are saying...?
Note the distinction between description and title.
The title (the one liner) cannot have a "gratititous" brand reference, such as the one cited.
The description is subject to different rules, far less restrictive. That's where it can be explained that this "carbide high-speed router bit" is "good for Dremel, (and a long list of router companies if desired)".
The bottom line is that a title-only search for "dremel" should not produce this item.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:10:31 AM
[i]Note the distinction between description and title.
The title (the one liner) cannot have a "gratititous" brand reference, such as the one cited.
The description is subject to different rules, far less restrictive. That's where it can be explained that this "carbide high-speed router bit" is "good for Dremel, (and a long list of router companies if desired)".
The bottom line is that a title-only search for "dremel" should not produce this item.[/i]
OK, so just to clarify by example...
I will soon have for sale a copy of Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles (for the Dreamcast system). Are you saying that I cannot include "for Dreamcast" in my title? That seems as though it would force bidders looking for the Playstation version of this game to actually click on my auction in order to find out that what I am selling isn't what they want. Wouldn't it be much simpler if they could see in my title that my listing doesn't fit their needs?
In that same way, I am diferentiating the bits that I am selling in their intended use. If the bits that I was selling were NOT for Dremel/RotoZip tools (say, for example, bits for a wood router), I would be "keyword spamming" without question.
posted on March 19, 2001 02:34:35 PMI will soon have for sale a copy of Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles (for the Dreamcast system). Are you saying that I cannot include "for Dreamcast" in my title?
1. I'm not sure the rule is consistent, or consistently enforced.
2. There exist "brand named interfaces", such as "a printer with Centronics interface", which seem non-gratitutous. Note that these say "this one and no other", unlike the reference to Dremel regarding a bit which will work with any properly sized chuck. Is "Dreamcast" such a standard?
PUT THE WORDS LIKE "DREMEL" IN YOUR TITLE & IT'S CONSIDERED KEYWORD SPAMMING BY EBAY.
End of Story.
You can argue whether or not it's right or wrong for ebay to consider it keyword spamming until the cows come home but it isn't going to change the way ebay looks at it.
You can put "for Dremel" in your description & anyone doing a search for "Dremel" including descriptions will pick it up.
NOW, if making a few bucks off these tips is worth being the possibility of being suspended by ebay (and they are most likely already watching your auctions due to this first "notice", then, by all means, go ahead & do it camachinist's way.
posted on March 20, 2001 08:55:06 AM
mrlatenite,
In your case the cartridge only fits one specific machine. In the case of the drill bits that started this thread, it can fit many different drills and this individual decided to name two that he thought would get the most viewers. IMHO, Unless it is a specific brand of bit, it's a generic and should not be titled for a specific machine.
[ edited by atlantis104 on Mar 20, 2001 08:55 AM ]
By the way, I do understand the position of a generic use item vs. a specific use item (which makes my video game analogy less than perfect), but isn't it a matter of good marketing principles that you tell your potential customers what the product is for?
Yes, the idea of including Dremel & RotoZip is to attract the attention of the market segment that is interested in that sort of thing. In my mind, had I included totally unrelated words like Playstation 2, PS2, Anna Kournakova, etc. ebay would have a legitimate beef. But I used context appropriate words to describe the intended use of the product that I am selling.
At this point, I suppose I am simply arguing a philisophical point. Whatever ebay says, I will comply with. What choice do I really have?
, then, by all means, go ahead & do it camachinist's way.