godfatherstoys
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:04:05 PM new
Just wondering what flak I could get from selling an old headstone. About 20 years ago a cemetary was being bulldozed flat behind my place of employment. The workmen had tossed all the headstones in a pile and broke all but the one I found (read liberated). I've saved it all these years thinking I would make a coffe table or something out of it. O.k. I was young and weird back then. My wife ran across it in the barn this week and asked me to get rid of it. Now my question; I've seen unmarked headstones sell on eBay but this is a used item, a child of 18 months was buried under it in 1897. How many laws am I breaking by selling it?
Thanks
Tim
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eventer
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:09:20 PM new
Please tell me they atleast relocated those buried in there! Poltergeist still sends shivers up my spine!
No chance of finding the relatives of this child?
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godfatherstoys
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:21:51 PM new
No the graves were not relocated. For the 2 years I worked there it was overgrown and never visited. A city crew did the work so it was on the up and up. I did a search on the family name but no one popped up from that area. I can only assume it was a family type cemetery, not a business.
Tim
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redskinfan
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:26:07 PM new
If you sell it, the spirit world may come to haunt you. Of course, they may do so anyway...
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mulberry912
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:31:03 PM new
yikes
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heygrape
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:36:09 PM new
Our city just did that too. Took our land by imminent domain and plowed right through the Indian Burial Mounds. The Indians were there and many others protesting but the city called in the police to stop us and all we could do was stand by and watch as the bulldozers plowed right through them. They did not relocate the bodies either. All this just so the hot shot County Clerk can get on TV cutting a ribbon and look important. And they are building a road there that we didn't ask for and don't even want.
This country is going to hell. 
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mulberry912
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:37:51 PM new
I can not believe what I just read in this thread.
First, it is a FEDERAL CRIME to destroy a cemetary without moving the remains of those that occupy the land. That happend (or I shoud say, almost happened) here in Savannah. A developer tried the same trick. He is now serving time in a Federal Pen.
Second, those headstones belong to the family of the deceased. What on earth are you thinking? You should check with your attorney before you even go there. It is very possible that just having someones headstone is also a crime.
WHERE IS THE RESPECT in what you are thinking about doing? Wht not just go in the back lot where you work and dig up a few people and offer their remains for sale....
People will do almost anything for $$$$...A COFFEE TABLE? GIVE ME A BREAK.! You, my friend, are one sick PUPPY for even thinking about doing something like that.
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heygrape
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:45:14 PM new
If it's a Federal Crime, why did our City get away with it? It was in all the papers. People from all over the United States were camping out there trying to stop it. There was even a website for it asking for more people to come and be willing to do civil disobedience.
It was a nightmare. And I was one of the land owners and I personally got manhandled by the cops when I tried walking onto my own property.
Maybe it's who you are. If you are the government you can get away with anything.
I just went and checked and the website is still there
http://www.tao.ca/~dominion/kentcreek/
[ edited by heygrape on Mar 20, 2001 03:58 PM ]
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godfatherstoys
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:45:20 PM new
Ok, I won't even mention the 2 childrens coffins I have in the barn as well. That I bought at an antique store by the way.
All was bought during my punk era. Besides, all the headstones were broken and in a pile headed for a land fill. I feel I saved it.
Tim
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loosecannon
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:48:16 PM new
This reminds me of something. A place I used to work for had an old 1800's headstone in one of their sheds. I asked where it came from and the boss said some guy that used to work there found it in the woods while hunting and brought it out of the woods, sort of like a trophy.
Of course there was no way to find exactly where it had come from, so it's probably forever separated from the grave.
This kind of thing is really depraved.
A coffee table?
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rumpleteaser
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:52:24 PM new
Whoa! .. Calm down Mulberry!
First: He said he took it off the pile of headstones the workmen were throwing away! Don't blame him ..
Second: He tried to locate relatives. Apparently from a headstone this old there are no relatives left in this area.
Third: He was young .. and a little weird, yes. BUT .. a lot of us have most likely been guilty of "weird" when we were younger. Lol!
Personally I would not try to sell it on Ebay. I'm pretty sure they would not look kindly on this type of auction.
If your wife wants it gone, why not give it back to the CITY (who ruined the graveyard in the first place).
Geeez .. what a world.
Rumple
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mulberry912
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posted on March 20, 2001 03:52:30 PM new
Godfather
Why not do the RIGHT THING and try your best to locate any living relatives of the child instead of trying to make $$$ off it.
You must be making this up.
As far as the Federal Crime goes, all I know is what happened here in Savannah, Georgia. This guy wanted to build homes over a pre-Civil War Slave Grave yard that was part of the Plantation land he wanted to develope on the Savannah River. He is now in jail. Pure and simple. I just know what I read in our local papers here.
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godfatherstoys
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:06:13 PM new
<<Why not do the RIGHT THING and try your best to locate any living relatives of the child instead of trying to make $$$ off it.>>
As stated I did try to find family, but to no avail. And as for me trying to make $$ from it...Mulberry912..ever been to an estate auction? What happened to the people who owned the things you were buying? Did you profit by it?
Enough please, I asked a valid question thanks to everyone who responded intelligently. Besides federal prison isn't that bad, I can work on my tennis game.
Tim
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redskinfan
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:10:45 PM new
The government can take land for basically any reason it wants to.
I think I'll pop some popcorn, pull out a wine cooler, and watch some scary movies...this thread has me in that mood.
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spazmodeus
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:13:27 PM new
It is almost certainly against state and Federal laws to deal in old gravestones.
If I had more time, I'd do the research and come up with the exact statutes, but very expensive auction houses in NY have had to pay steep fines in the past for dealing in gravestones -- particularly gravestones from the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.
Gravestone carvings were the first American form of folk art, and the theft of these valuable relics from country cemeteries was rampant in the 80s.
For further information and referral to specific laws and statutes, I suggest you contact the nation's number one gravestone preservation/education group, the Association for Gravestone Studies, headquartered in Greenfield, Massachusetts. A terrific organization.
http://www.gravestonestudies.org/
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mulberry912
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:27:44 PM new
Hmmm, I haven't been to an estate sale yet that sold their family headstones...
What you are thinking about selling on Ebay is simply WRONG and you know it. That is why I believe you are making it all up. Nobody in their right mind would do such a thing.
Think about it for a minute. What would you think if you saw your grandparents headstone for sale on Ebay?
If you are for real and your concerns are real, you should do more research on this item. There are land records at your county courthouse that will tell you who owned the land in the late 1800's. For GOD'S sake, do what is right. Make up for your past error in judgement and find the family.
It is not for me to judge you or anyone in this thread. You must judge yourself. I assure you that if you put a little effort into it, you will be able to locate the right person or organization to turn this piece of sacred history over to. You will feel as if a past error has been corrected.
You might even try going to your locat media and ask for their help.
DO NOT SELL IT ON EBAY..........
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labrat4gmos
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:42:48 PM new
godfatherstoys,
Most counties have historical and genealogical societies now. I would contact them to see if they have info on the family members. They may also be able to tell you where it could find a good "resting place." Maybe in another cemetery? It could be documented with one of the societies. What a shame that happened.
I visit two Michigan graveyards every year and leave silk flowers by the stones of my Civil War grandfather's little brothers - died age 6 & 12. The caretaker is so kind to leave the faded flowers by the grave until I get there again the next year. There may be a family out there looking for your stone, who knows.
I think it is nice that you ask.
LabRat4gmos.
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coffeemug1
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:51:16 PM new
You might want to think of going out in the woods somewhere and just bury it! it was a childs life that was lost, and frankly anyone who would buy it, well you would have to wonder what kind of person they were, its sad that the dead can't rest in Peace with there headstones.
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labrat4gmos
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posted on March 20, 2001 04:55:39 PM new
I haven't tried a link before here. I hope it works. This is a genealogy/history site that gives all kinds of information about states, counties, families, etc. If you are from Canada or other countries you can link from there to worldgenweb. A
fun site to browse though. They might give the phone or address for the groups you could contact in your area. Good Luck.
http://www.usgenweb.org/
YES. It worked!!!!
[ edited by labrat4gmos on Mar 20, 2001 04:56 PM ]
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sg52
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posted on March 20, 2001 05:00:39 PM new
The problem with an inscribed headstone is that an eBay seller obviously does not hold legitmate title to it.
It's that obvious part which makes action certain.
sg52
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upriver
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posted on March 20, 2001 05:02:44 PM new
Well, whether this poster made this up or not, it is yechhy! Either way, it is wrong in so many ways I've lost count.
One headstone was sold on eBay during the last month, with the admonition: It has never been part of a death, a funeral or a grave and has never been engraved with a person's name.
In other words, someone sold an original never carved or used headstone -- now that is kind of neat, but when something has been used in a gravesite it should never be sold for one's personal financial gain.
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godfatherstoys
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posted on March 20, 2001 05:06:37 PM new
Great I'll check again the county records for "Daughter Angela died 1887 aged 18 months" that's all it says. No record was found of even a name of the cemetery that held what looked to me like 10 graves. Again folks I checked years ago, no last name or record was found and yes I'm not kidding it sits in my barn as of now. I just should have let it go to the land fill with the others. Just wanted so legal info and thanks to all again for that. The moral judgements given me by some of you are noted.
Tim
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vargas
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posted on March 20, 2001 05:50:35 PM new
labrat4gmos has a good suggestion. A local historical or genealogical society might be a great help in locating members of the child's family.
Family history is a growing hobby in this country. It might make someone very happy to discover that you've saved this headstone from demolition.
I know it would mean a lot to me if the child were a part of my family tree.
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Pocono
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posted on March 20, 2001 06:25:46 PM new
We have tombstones all over around here, dating back to the 1600s.
But then again, we are in a very old and historic area as well.
Hope I don't see them disapearing and showing up on eBay...that would suck!
It is really neat to go on nature walks, and find these markers that have stood for the last 200-400 years in the woods and fields and mountains.
After the Blair Witch Project though, my wife aint so willing to go on those walks with us any more 
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neeceebaby
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posted on March 20, 2001 06:25:57 PM new
Someone sold an child's unengraved headstone on eBay. Its under completed auctions. Probably most people would be freaked out by one with a name on it. Well, maybe Marilyn Manson wouldn't be...
I would question the legality. Maybe call your city officials??
I noticed while checking completed auctions that some guy sure has sold a bunch of "one of a kind" Jimi Hendrix headstone rubbings. Sheesh!
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valeriet
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posted on March 20, 2001 06:32:37 PM new
I would sell it, but I sure wouldn't ask about it here on AW.
--
http://www.valeriet.com
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bunnicula
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posted on March 20, 2001 06:42:41 PM new
Think about it for a minute. What would you think if you saw your grandparents headstone for sale on Ebay?
Wouldn't bother me a bit. Since there are so few with my name in this country, I'd get a kick & might even try to buy it if the price were reasonable.
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mulberry912
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posted on March 20, 2001 06:47:09 PM new
bunnicula:
are you related to Dracula? Names sound alike.......
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coffeemug1
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posted on March 20, 2001 07:43:19 PM new
Alright folks any high bidders for an 18 month old dead little girls headstone? Sorry but your remark about if it were your own grandparents Makes you about as COLD as the stone the little girls name is carved in.
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amy
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posted on March 20, 2001 07:59:03 PM new
"Makes you about as COLD as the stone the little girls name is carved in."
I thought we were supposed to address the subject, not the poster....has that rule been suspended?
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