posted on March 22, 2001 08:58:43 AM new
BOOKSELLING FOR IDIOTS! Subtitle: How to make your first $10,000 without knowing a damn thing about books. 1. Buy books only at thrift stores, garage sales, estate sales or other CHEAP sources you come across. 2. Never pay more than $1 for a book, preferably much less. 3. Buy only books that you sense might be worth something. (At this point, since you’re still an idiot, you have nothing else to go on but your nose. Use it.) 4. Take your books home and look them up on both a book search engine and eBay. 5. List the ones that you’re almost certain you can get $10 or more for on eBay. 6. Take the other ones (the dogs) to a used bookstore for store credit. DO NOT LET YOUR SCOTCH HERITAGE GET THE BEST OF YOU AND ATTEMPT TO SELL THEM. Repeat after me: THEY ARE DOGS. If the store won’t give you credit for them, donate them and take a tax credit. 7. Browse through the bookstore where you now have credit and write down titles (and, if necessary, pertinent publication information) that you sense might be worth something. (Sorry, you still have to use your nose because you’re still an idiot.) 8. Take your list home and look them up on both a book search engine and eBay. 9. Go back to the bookstore and buy the ones you can realize a profit of at least $10 or more on eBay. 10. Repeat this process until you reach $10,000 in sales.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:37:45 AM new
Well, this was obviously written with me in mind. I'm the biggest bookselling idiot on Ebay---in terms of idiocy, not bookselling. Thanks for the tips. Wish you had posted this months ago!
posted on March 22, 2001 10:23:43 AM new
Well, this is definitely a repost of a post that appeared on the Book Board just the other day!
You missed a few though:
1. Be illiterate: after all, there is no pre-requisite that a book-seller should be able to compose a coherent auction description.
2. Spelling is a foreign concept. A word is a word even if it's in the wrong order and missing a few letters. It only slows you down anyway: proofing what you write takes time and time is money. (Of course, that would presuppose one recognizes that one can't spell.)
3. Eschew grammar and punctuation.
4. Type everything in UPPERCASE.
5. Don't bother with basic HTML: one long paragraph is perfectly readable. Separate sentences with *** or === or ,,,.
6. "This rare and valuable book is in wonderful condition for its age" is all you need to describe your latest ratty offering (never mind that it is a Whitman edition from 1952).
7. Don't bother with trifles. No one needs to know who the publisher, author or illustrator is. Dates are passe. (We wouldn't want to confuse the prospective bidders with too many facts).
8. Book clubs are first editions. An 18th printing is a first edition. Ex-libraries are best, however.
9. Packaging? A box will only detract from your profit. Hardcovers should be packaged in an envelope (and padding is optional). Corners are meant to be bent and boards are best when crushed.
10. Focus, instead, on terms and conditions. No, you won't sell to furriners. Yes, you charge triple postage 'cause it takes a lot of time and effort to find those envelopes! No, you only take PayNotPal. Yes you will neg anyone who doesn't send you the money in 3 days, etc., ad nauseum.
There's more, I'm sure....
[edited because]
[ edited by engelskdansk on Mar 22, 2001 10:25 AM ]
posted on March 22, 2001 11:14:39 AM new5. Don't bother with basic HTML: one long paragraph is perfectly readable. Separate sentences with *** or === or ,,,.
posted on March 22, 2001 11:16:41 AM new
Guilty as charged for having posted this the other day, engelsdansk, but my intent there, as well as here, was of a less cynical one than you seem to be implying. Did you think this was a spoof? At the risk of sounding maudlin, it saddens me to pull up seller’s auctions on eBay and gaze at a sea of books with bids in the $2 to $6 or $7 range—or more typically no bids at all. Such activity can’t be profitable, no matter how efficient one is. The steps listed above will guarantee at least a reasonable and consistent return at little or no risk to the seller, and in time that seller will necessarily acquire the knowledge to move to an even higher level. Also, most of your addenda pertained to auctions in general, and while I agree there are problems in these areas, I was attempting to address booksellers in particular. Thanks for your thoughts.
posted on March 22, 2001 11:31:31 AM new
Bibliofile--No, I didn't think yours was a spoof. You had some good points.
Mine WAS more "spoof" like and was written to reflect the hundreds of auctions I have seen where the seller has little skills, no knowledge and doesn't care about presentation. And they are seemingly happy with $0.50 profit. {Oh, and they have little compunction about calling everything a "first edition" -- just look at all the Gone With the Wind auctions if you want to see an example of firsts that never were.}
I realized as soon as I attempted to do my first auction two years ago that HTML was a must. In several days I had it mastered and was soon doing tables. I would have to say at that point I was a little unsure of "first edition points", but I provided COMPLETE information from the get go (I knew what I was looking for as a collector). I sold 95% of my listings even without photos. I quickly realized a camera was a must so I invested in a camera within the month.
Cynical? Yes, I suppose. I have little regard for anyone who is lazy and takes shortcuts. I am reminded of several sellers I have seen on the Boards who happily steal photos from other sellers, write crappy listings and have openly said they don't want to spend the few minutes it would take to write something coherent....
[ edited by engelskdansk on Mar 22, 2001 11:33 AM ]
posted on March 22, 2001 11:48:04 AM new
I'm not sure I grasp the fine points of this thread, but if the overall gist of the first post is intended to describe a certain ebay bookseller, you nailed me. [the third post isn't me, though!]
Is the subtext here that a bookseller should only deal in fine first editions and books of widely-regarded value and general ineffibleness? Great, cool. I just don't feel like investing hundreds of my own dollars in buying them just in case they might sell.
Oh, and I did make $10,000 last year. But that was gross...hoping to do better this year!
posted on March 22, 2001 11:50:37 AM new
HEY, maybe you should package up this information in some kind of "manual". Sell it on ebay for 1 cent & zero shipping charges & get your feedback up over a 10,000.
posted on March 22, 2001 11:58:28 AM new
Yes, you’re right. There are untold numbers of auctions with the problems you describe. I guess I tend to think that those sellers (because their methods are counterproductive) will prove to be short-termers and that those who stick around of necessity must represent things competently and honestly, that is, if they have any interest at all in making a go of things.
First edition determinations are at times devilishly difficult, and I doubt there’s a bookseller alive who hasn’t at one time or another been caught red-faced at a misrepresentation, intentional or not—and I include myself in this group. In the end, I believe implicitly that a sincere intent to do the right thing will eventually pay off, that and a healthy aversion to looking like a fool a second time.
I couldn’t agree more about the necessity of a camera. And don’t stop at one or two shots. In my opinion, it takes four to twelve pictures to adequately present a book for sale. With a good camera and some practice, this all goes quite quickly.
posted on March 22, 2001 12:07:48 PM new
You underestimate yourself, keziak. If you grossed $10,000 last year selling low-end books, then you MUST have a nose if for no other reason than you walked the walk of a bookseller and lived with books; and, if you have a nose, you can take gut-inspired guesses by the dozen at what might have value. I’m not advocating throwing hundreds of dollars to the wind. You can buy (and probably do already) dozens of books for a few dollars. If only one or two turn out to be hot and sell in the $20 to $70 range, you've accomplished what I’ve claimed you can accomplish.
posted on March 22, 2001 12:43:38 PM new
Actually, I'm a librarian! : - )
My main reaction to what I think is the direction of this thread [can't be sure] is that a garden-variety scrounger has to have the flexibility and energy to deal in a lot of miscellaneous STUFF and - yes - sell a lot of low-end material. The buyers are happy..as long as the seller can cope, it's do-able. Finding the $20-$70 item isn't all that hard, what's hard is any attempt to construct a business in which regular profits of $50 or whatever are the guiding principle of your sales.
If a bookseller can do that, my hat is off.
I just personally find if I buy a book for $5-$10 or more, my profit isn't as good as many of my next-to-nothing finds, so I am continuing with the bulk route. Including ex-libraries, I sort of have a weakness for those orphans if the topic is intriguing.
posted on March 22, 2001 01:17:56 PM new
A librarian—well, you have a bigger nose than I thought! Seriously, keziak, I don’t want to get argumentative about this. I was only trying to offer some suggestions for the average bookseller who’s working more and making less. I’ll just state a few things for the purpose of clarity then bow out. I’m not advocating seeking average profits of $50 but nearer to $10, at least until one gets more experience. Nor am I suggesting spending $5 to $10 on a book but perhaps more like $.10 or $.25 and at most $1. In my opinion, what drags sellers down more than anything else is the very attempt to sell low-end items. Just the ATTEMPT. All that built-in labor for what? I believe it’s wiser in the long run to take that chunk of labor and shove it into something with a greater potential return. The neat thing about books is that you can find no end of them at almost giveaway prices, and you only need a few blockbusters here and there to more than justify tossing out things you purchase (with soaring hope) that later turn out to be losers. By the way, search engines are wonderful winnowing devices for losers.
When I first started selling books, my purpose was to find something financially rewarding to do at home. I have three boys and an eightysomething mother who moved in with us for health reasons. This method allowed me to spend more time with all of them. Admittedly I have the knowledge now to seek and realize those higher profits, but much of that knowledge I acquired by doing the very things I’m talking about today. If you’re content with your selling practices, I have no quarrel with that. As is true with any advice, especially the unsolicited variety, there’s only a certain, limited audience that will take any interest in it.
PS >>> As you probably already know, in certain instances, ex-lib. titles are strong sellers.
posted on March 22, 2001 01:24:20 PM new
My sister has been selling a lot of books lately on eBay, things such as my childhood Nancy Drew collection (1950s) and my mother's childhood Bobbsey Twins books (1920s-30s). Before listing them I did a lot of research to determine how old they really were, and in the process I discovered that a lot of eBay booksellers don't know what they're talking about. If a book says "Copyright 1917" on the copyright page they assume it was published in 1917 and list it as a first edition or old edition - when it's obvious from the jacket illustration that it came out in the 1960s, 70s or even 80s and is a re-issue.
Because of the Internet it's so easy to check these things out - most popular children's series have web pages that show the changes in the covers or endpapers as each new edition was published, with dates for the changes.
I think it's sloppy not to do this kind of checking; in the long run you pay for it when you sell someone a book that isn't what you said it was.
posted on March 22, 2001 02:02:42 PM new
HI Craig - I see what you are saying now. Of course it's excellent advice. I would like to move in a direction of maximizing profit closer to the $10 mark, too. It's actually easier to do that on Marketplace and half.com.
On ebay, I start with a minimum bid that gives me about $3-4 profit, not more. Often, that is what I get. But I figure...it's an auction. It's sort of a service to the bidders to give them a crack at a real bargain, as long as I"m not losing as a result!
My strategy right now is to expand my exposure in multiple venues. I do a lot of double listings [not when I'm auctioning, though]. That seems to bring in the decent profits more steadily than counting on ebay.
posted on March 22, 2001 02:14:03 PM new
I'm not really sure what the message of this thread is but - am I supposed to feel bad or guilty because I buy lots of books for $.25 or $.50 (and some even at no cost) and I sell them anywhere from $5.00 - around $10.00 each? This makes me an idiot??
posted on March 22, 2001 03:12:25 PM new
Actually, I was an idiot ....
Bought a first edition autographed book.
First edition means first printing, right?
WRONG!
Sold the book for $250 - gave a REFUND of $275 vowed to stay out of expensive books and just sell the cheap-o ones book idiots like me should be selling .....
posted on March 22, 2001 03:23:48 PM new
Most of those points are common sense, and I find myself most guilty for putting in alot of time with dogs, trying to find that interesting thing, that keyword, that will cause a hit and resulting buy.
However, I do ship alot of my books in envelopes...plastic bagged, bubblewraped, often with newspaper around, then well taped and often stapled. I don't think that is such a bad thing. I have yet to get a complaint. Any reference at all to the manner in which I have packaged something has always been positive.
posted on March 22, 2001 05:30:38 PM new
Well, it just goes to show that each individual interprets things SOOOO differently.
I have seen responses to the initial post of this thread that are very defensive! Geez, guys...get over yourselves! I'm sorry, but some folks just don't seem to get it. My interpretation was that bibliophile was being helpful and very generous with some great tips on how to make some fairly decent money on eBay selling books.
No, he's not calling "you" an idiot. He's merely saying you don't have to be an "expert" on books to sell them and sell them for a profit. Like many other areas of collecting, there is jargon and specialized knowledge associated with book collecting and book selling. Sometimes it can be very daunting for someone who is unfamiliar with it...an "idiot," if you will. Yet, there are ways to sell books on eBay and realize a nice profit. Even if you aren't an idiot, the information in the first post is right on.
Thanks bibliophile!
***DISCLAIMER*** I am not referring to any particular post or individual. Just MHO...your mileage may vary.
edited for Step 2: Learn to spell.
[ edited by paperfan on Mar 22, 2001 06:28 PM ]
posted on March 22, 2001 07:47:54 PM new
The most important thing is give a good description of what the book is about. Even include quotes from the book. Don't always use just the book title in the listing title, especially if it's vague.
By browsing book listings I'd say at least 70% of sellers fail at that.
I think bibliofile specializes in old collector books. If I waited around trying to find books that sell for over $10 I think I'd starve.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:51:04 PM new
I would say that a remarkable number of sellers (and bidders) on eBay are definitely deficient in their IQ. This is not limited to booksellers.
Frankly, if you want to sell something, it helps to know the marketplace. And bidders need to stop expecting sellers to open at .25 for $20 items.
It amazes me that so much good stuff goes begging. The level of sophistication among book buyers for serious books is decreasing almost daily. I don't expect people to beat down my door for them, but anything written more than 5 years ago seems to be beyond the knowledge radar of most eBayers.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:48:17 PM new
I, for one, found the post at the top helpful. It address all of the things that I try to do with my book auctions. I do find most of my books for next to nothing and turn what I consider a good profit on them. I stick to a lot of pbs and mix some 1st edition hbs in every now and again.
I've been selling books on ebay for a year now and am finally seeing what can bring steady income and what is patchy on sales.
I've been a collector for over a decade (to some of you I'm sure a short span) and have amassed quite a bit of knowledge about books and editions. Not saying I can spot a 1st from non-1st everytime but most of the time. I actually carry a small printed list to book sales and shows outlining some of more obscure publishers statings for 1sts.
Got a huge shock a while ago, when a paperback book that I got for free at a group garage sale went for over $100.00. dollars. That authors name is now on my list. Have had several other surprises as well.
You can't know everything that there is to know about books. There are just to many of them out there. Stick to what you know and I feel that a person can do well for themselves on ebay.
posted on March 22, 2001 11:13:38 PM new
Its my experience that you can make decent money at selling books. However there are certain things to keep in mind.
1. If the book or the author is popular, there is always going to be a zillion of them on eBay with a bunch of freaking dweebs selling them for a dollar, which is where half of them will end. And the other half with either no bids, or maybe as high as $1.50.
2. If you like working for minimum wage, then go flip burgers at McDonalds and leave the vending to people who have real bills to pay. Even if the book cost you a dime, the cheapest you can afford to sell it for without it being charity is $4.50 to $5.00.
3. Book value means nothing in the online auction world. I recently sold a $125 James Joyce first edition for $15. And wasnt disappointed. I dont like James Joyce. And the book cost me 50c. eBay is its own market with its own rules. Learn them.
4. Very rarely can you get bites on a book that starts at over 10 dollars. I had a set of books that went from $25 to $60 each. Needed to start them at $6 each.
5. Antique books are not necessarily worth anything. And for those real classics like Nancy Drew et al, you will only get a small fraction of their real value. Do not even think of selling your REALLY valuable 15th century manuscripts on eBay. This is the wrong market. Period.
6. The rare, one of a kind, and unusual sell best. But choose carefully. Some art books do quite well, and some don't. And even past histories on ebay are not a definitive guide. Prices here can vary by a factor of 10 quite easily, all other factors being the same.
7. Don't sell signed first editions here. Unless you feel like being called Santa Claus.
8. You would think that with a market made of millions of members that it would be a thousand times more profitable than a dinky old antique market. You think wrong. Many antique books fare better at *real* markets. Where potential buyers do not have to sift though thousands of pages to find what they are looking for. Or put up with greedy or stupid or abusive vendors who should have their computers disconnected at the group home. Or prison cell.
9. There are four things that determine value: rarity, condition, provenance, and technique (artistic quality). On ebay the first is generally lacking, since nearly everyone is emptying out their attics looking for gold and dumping the rest on ebay. Including some real treasures for a dollar. And the other three are often hotly contested between online buyers and sellers. Since so many of the better buyers are leaving online buying, it is best to be straightforth about everything relating to condition and provenance, and even include reviews if available.
10. If you come across Gutenberg's Bible and it has water stains, or pages missing, or a missing board, or a very damaged spine - pass it up. Well repaired books *may* sell, but even rare books with notable damage rarely do.
11. Book Club editions *DO* sell. Ex-Library editions *DO* sell. Depending on their titles. Not everyone is a rare book collector demanding that First Printing.
But for chrissake, state what they are.
12. Learn the difference between a First Edition and a First Printing. And when in doubt, simply say so.
13. Most books simply will not sell on ebay. Even if you threw in a free Papal Indulgence.
This does not necessarily mean that there is anything wrong with them (and trash them if there is). You may find slow sales if you dump them on a 'free' auction such as BidVille or EPier. Just dont forget where you put them. It can take a while.
14. As already noted, descriptions and photos are necessary. Dont think you can sell books on ebay the way they do it on www.bibliofind.com, as it simply dont work that way. If you cant *market* your book you dont belong in the book business.
15. Remember that if your sell through rates on eBay are 10% or less that you are working for Meg and not for yourself. Time to go back to that day job.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:17:39 AM new
Snakebait...you said "Very rarely can you get bites on a book that starts at over 10 dollars."
I think you need to rethink that position
Since March 1, I have listed these books with the following starting bid-and got the ending price noted (starting bid-ending price)...those bolded are still open and are currently at the price noted.
I have not found it true that one needs to start a book at $10 or under in order to get bids. I think my sales this month prove my point...and this month is typical, I normally start a lot of my books at over $10
I also think you need to add something else to the things that determine value...content/subject matter is also important in determining value.
posted on March 23, 2001 01:49:04 AM new
Great Thread!
Snakebait--You are so right! great advice!
Been selling colectible children's books & 1st editions on ebayfor over a year now & its true...I keep learning more everyday...
I think if you start below $10, the market will determine the price. So now I just start almost everything for 9.99
Saves me on listing fees. I just am more picky on what I sell. Its true take bibliophile's advice. if you know you can't get at least $10 for your book, then just trash it , donate it or trade it in for credit...
posted on March 23, 2001 02:04:01 AM new
Amy,
It would appear from some of those starting prices that you are selling either new books or very unusual books to a niche target audience. In those instances, which I might term 'rare' higher starting prices can be commanded, and are even expected. A rare CIvil War book I would put in the Militaria category. An antique gun book I would put in the weapons category. Too low a price on some of those items would probably turn off some of the buyers.
And I would also assume that *you* paid more than a dollar for them. For me a no-no
Some of my highest sellers have been freebies.
My 'normal' categories are science, medicine, biography, science fiction, paranormal, cookbooks, antique fiction. Other categories such as First Edition Novels, and Art as they become available, and I am very selective with them.
And I would of course agree that subject matter is of critical importance.
I have had book s fly through the roof on occasion. Acutally many occasions. Strangely, its never what I would consider a truly rare work of high artistic merit. Usually something stupid, like a sports or an occult book.
I usually market fairly well, and average about a 40% sell through. Frequently better.
On good days I can sell ice cube recipes to Eskimos. Its holding me through the BAD season for my antiques and collectiblkes, which has pretty much taken a nose dive due to tax season.
But I will repeat that 'average' type books, even if worth much more, do not as a rule fare well if the starting price is over $10. This is from my own experience, though YMMV.
Speaking about books. Anybody sell book repair kits? Am looking to replace a back board on an 1815 Ben Franklin autobiography. Not for sale, as its for my personal collection. Especially precious since it was a freebie.
posted on March 23, 2001 04:53:56 AM new
KEZIAK: I think part of what one realizes as a final price on eBay has at least something to do with what one expects. What I’m trying to say is, you might find your profits growing more if you set at least some of your minimum bids at $9.99 instead of $3 or $4. Simply expecting more seems to enhance the value of a listing, and at $9.99 you haven’t exceeded a comfort level for the typical bidder OR (perhaps more importantly) moved things to a higher listing fee bracket. There are comfort levels in everything. On TV, for example, it’s $19.95 plus $4.95 shipping and handling.
KYRIAKI: No, it doesn’t make you an idiot.
PAPERFAN: Thank you for seeing past the “I” word to my true intent.
QUICKDRAW29: I don’t specialize in “old collector books,” only in books that show promise for higher profits.
MICHENERADDICT: Great point about lists. I keep them too: an author list, a title list, a topic list, and a vendor list. I add to them almost daily. I don’t take them with me, but it’s amazing how much more I remember when I’ve taken the trouble to write things down. By the way, the vendor list consists of sellers I’ve identified on eBay as HOT. They’re the ones who know what to list, how to present what they list effectively, and of course, make the most money. I learn more doing searches on their listings than anywhere else.
SNAKEBAIT: I’ve had good success with first editions, even signed firsts. I think the approach needs to be different, however. It’s imperative to take the time to demonstrate your knowledge of the title in the listing and also, frankly, to up the bar on your diction—in other words, demonstrate a command of bookselling vocabulary—because you’re usually dealing with a more savvy group of bidders. As a writer, I long ago learned that even small changes in word choice can make a huge difference.
posted on March 23, 2001 05:13:36 AM new
I agree with almost everything I've read so far except the "junk the $10 & under books". My advice would be to put them in large, related lots and sell them that way. Works great for paperbacks, kids books, nonfiction, etc.
