posted on March 22, 2001 09:12:35 AM new
Well, it happened. Had a buyer who won 7 auctions (similiar items;different auctions) and refused payment on all 7! He'd asked to make payments "in installments"; I said "OK". He said he was having credit card problems but on 3 March could combine and pay the over $750! Time passed but no payment came in. I finally called and buyer refused to pay. I'd already filed the NPB and, after waiting 10 days, filed FVF refund and gave him negative comments on all 7 auctions. Lo and behold, I find he's retaliated by giving ME negatives! I've reported him to "Safe Harbor" and written responses to the negs (in nice unemotional factual terms)but the whole deal irritates me! I'm afraid that potential bidders will see that high number of "negatives" and avoid my auctions...I'm hoping that eBay will remove these obvious retaliatory and harassing negs from my record but, if they don't, I'll certainly have to think long and hard about leaving another negative for a deadbeat bidder! I think it's important to use the "system" to protect eBayers from bidders like this but if the "system" ends up biting responsible sellers in the patootie, then something stinks!
posted on March 22, 2001 09:26:17 AM new
I'm a new seller and I have avoided posting negative feedback because I want to build up my rating and I fear retaliation. I realize the importance of posting feedback, but I'm not going to do it if it hurts my ability to sell.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:32:11 AM new
QUESTION: I thought a buyer was automatically NARU after 4 NPB/FVF's. Did your 7 not get him NARU? Does it have to be from 4 different sellers?
posted on March 22, 2001 09:44:32 AM new
It has to be neg. fb from 4 unique users, BUT, most of the time, Safeharbor has to be pointed in that direction. They've overlooked some.
I think it more depends on how many FVF's are credited back because of one buyer...
I left a negative, the guy bid $187. on one of my items. Said he'd be sending money order, new seller. Nothing. Wrote to him, nothing. Filed NPB, waited, filed for my FVF
and next think I see he is NARU, but only had 3 negatives. This could be because other sellers didn't leave negatives, but filed for the FVF. I looked at his bidding history and they were in the $100-$200 range. [email protected]
posted on March 22, 2001 09:48:00 AM new
As a buyer, I check feedback before bidding. If I see any negatives, I read them. It is usually obvious when it is retaliation based on the comments about the negative. Negatives wouldn't stop me from bidding if there seemed to be a reason or it was in retaliation.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:49:38 AM new
That stinks, but I doubt eBay will do a thing about it. It seems amazing they allow these jerks to soil our reps. I have to live with four flat-out lies in my feedback. (One guy negged me 7 hours after an auction ended for non-communication, one said he was tired of being cheated by OTHER sellers so he negged ME....)All negs stuck. Ebay is worthless in these matters. (in my experience).
Bidders understand jerks and untrue negs. I was sure my 7 negs (out of 1400+ positves) would kill my business, but sales are actually up...
People understand, those who don't can just go elsewhere.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:35:31 AM new
The same thing happend to me on ebay. A buyer bid and won my item and after 15 emails going back and forth (she was a bit of a ditz and couldnt figure out how to fill out the auction watch WBN) she then emails me and tells me she decided not to buy the items. I left her poor feedback and she retaliated. EBAY wouldnt do a thing about it..which in my humble opinion is very poor business.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:23:10 PM new
A bidder is automatically NARU'd for 30 days if he receives 3 NPB/FVF tick marks from different sellers; NARU'd permanently if he receives 4. An eBay rep looks at multiple NPB/FVF requests from the same seller and decides on an individual basis whether the account should be suspended.
When feedback reaches -4, an account is automatically prohibited from listing, bidding, or leaving feedback. But at the present time, suspension must be done manually, and that is done by reporting the account to Safe Harbor.
Negative feedback and NPB/FVF are two separate things.
blueyes29, Hindsight is 20-20, especially when it's about somebody else. But were it me, I would have left just one negative saying it was for multiple items, and filed 7 NPB/FVF alerts. That way you would have possibly only gotten 1 neg in return.
In the feeedback you left for the deadbeat, I think you went over the top. It was too emotional. It's no surprise that the guy retaliated. Here's what you wrote:
"WAS NICE TO THIS BUYER & HE SHOWED HIS GRATEFULNESS BY NOT PAYING. DECEITFUL"
"Won bid for similiar item for less so reneged on paying for this auction. AVOID!"
"E-MAILS&PHONE CALLS GALORE BUT NO PAYMENT FOR AUCTIONS. SELLER ALERT ON THIS GUY"
"LOTS OF EMAILS/PHONE CALLS CITING CREDIT CARD PROBLEMS-REFUSED TO SEND PAYMENT"
"Buyer asked for extra time to pay/credit card problems. BUYER REFUSED TO PAY."
If I were you, I would be more worried that your bidders will click on the deadbeat's feedback, see these comments, and be dissuaded from bidding. You're probably a nice guy, but these comments don't make me want to do business with you.
Also, I find it interesting that you are complaining about retaliatory negatives, while you yourself left a retaliatory neg for a different bidder four months ago:
"Complaint: Prompt py'mt.Buyer not happy with item but NEVER contacted me before posting neg"
posted on March 23, 2001 06:09:14 AM new
It is quite possible that eBay will remove the negatives. They have a "feedback bombing" policy.
"Circumstances Where eBay Will Consider Removing Feedback"
"Multiple (3 or more) feedbacks left by the same user as part of a campaign to harass one or more users."
I've seen many cases in which eBay has removed negatives in this case. Of course, by leaving 5 negatives yourself, you are guilty of feedback bombing yourself.
[ edited by igolf on Mar 23, 2001 06:10 AM ]
I recently had a bidder who'd won 9 auctions & wasn't paying. I was concerned about a feedback bombing issue if I left 9 negatives for him.
I asked ebay for a ruling about it & they said as long as I had 9 legitimate auctions up (now how the heck do you put illegitimate ones up), then I had every right to leave 9 feedback responses, be they positive or negative.
The happy ending for me was that he did pay & all ended well.
But, if I were in the position of needing to leave multiple negatives for a single buyer, I wouldn't leave them all at once. I'd string them out over a period of a couple of months & make sure they couldn't bury them as easily.
I'm not sure in this era of transactional based feedback what feedback bombing would even be defined as anymore.
posted on March 23, 2001 06:40:26 AM new
Hi -
I disagree with leaving only one feedback for 7 separate auctions! I think making one mistake is understandable, but if people see he stiffed someone on 7 auctions...
I had a guy who bid on one of my auctions and didn't pay for a month. Then, unbeknownst to me, he sniped two more auctions at the end (so I didn't catch it and cancel the bid) Total for 3 auctions - $250. I left 3 negatives, which were very factual. Something like "No response and no payment for auction ended 1/1/01" He has nowmade his feedback private. I worried that he would retaliate for my 3 negs, but it was worth it to me.
posted on March 23, 2001 06:45:32 AM new
" I realize the importance of posting feedback" - It's not important, it's a pathetic exercise in ego stroking. Very few buyers or sellers even bother looking at feedback until something goes wrong. You not know which entries are even true or not. It's like me scribbling a message about K-Mart on the outside walls regarding my latest transaction there. Downright stupid and silly and much too unreliable. And I don't even have any negs yet!
posted on March 23, 2001 08:52:02 AM new
Thanks to all who responded...good insights/comments...decpage...Yes, I really and truly am a "nice guy" and thought long and hard about the bidder in question. I guess what I wanted to do in my negative comments was cite the numerous reasons for the negs...it went far beyond merely "not paying"...and I just couldn't do that in 80 characters on one auction. So, elected to take the route I did. Hopefully, others won't have the same feeling you do and will continue to do business with me. Really, I'm very easy to get along with and will do practically anything to keep a customer happy and pleased. My requirements are quite simple...all I ask is that a customer pay within a reasonable time and, if they're unhappy in any way, to let me know. And Glenda...Yes, I'd thought about just leaving one...but again, felt the need to explain all the circumstances. I may be paying the price for that decision but so be it, I guess.
