posted on March 27, 2001 07:27:29 AM new
Hi all. I have been checking out a number of auctions over the past several weeks and have noticed an alarming trend. A seemingly large number of sellers state that they only take paypal and money orders, and no checks. I don't understand this, given my high feedbacks and check numbers in the 5900 range (I've had the account for 8 years). It is ridiculous for these folks to insist on a money order for a $25 purchase -- it represents an unnecessary waste of time and money order fee for me. Then with the Paypal thing, it costs the sellers money and (in my experience), the service is less-than-ideal. On top of this, they require me to supply them with my bank account information (something which I will NOT do over the wire). I'd like to know exactly why sellers have all of a sudden started taking the "no checks" stand, and whether or not they realize that they lose customers over this. Thanks!
posted on March 27, 2001 07:38:20 AM new
Until recently, I would not list personal checks as an option just because I hoped (however naive that was!) that someone trying to pull a scam and bounce a check would be less likely to bid on my auctions. I would always accept the checks that were sent and I never had any problems. That is why I now put that I will accept them. I've only had one problem since. *knocks on wood* I would try emailing the seller if you really wanted their item and see if they would accept a check.
posted on March 27, 2001 07:39:35 AM new
Loses on bounced checks, an unwillingness to take the risk of a bad check, the belief that the seller gets their cash more quickly, that it is easier and saves time to not deal with checks, laziness, no records of deposits that can be traced as income or for other reasons, general paranoia, hard ass attitudes, etc......
posted on March 27, 2001 07:43:38 AM new
While I personally have no problem accepting personal checks, I certainly understand those sellers who do. Just as, in your opinion it is ridiculous for sellers to request a money order for a $25.00 charge, it is likewise ridiculous for a seller to put himself at a $25-30 risk for bounced checks. If you've been burned a couple times... it certainly makes you consider not accepting checks. And, these bounced checks can come from people with 0 feedback... or from people with 1000+ feedback. You just never know! As for not supplying your bank account information to paypal...... well.... you do realize that everytime you send a check to someone...you're giving THEM your account information, right? You are probably right that people lose business due to this practice... however, with all the choices of payment today, it is impossible to provide all of them for the buyer! Just follow the terms set forth by the seller, and if they request money orders, factor the cost into your final bid. Or... if you don't want it that bad, don't bid. Easy enough!
posted on March 27, 2001 07:48:32 AM new
I accept payment by check, but must admit there are minor problems associated by accepting payment via this method.
The minor problems mentioned above are the "Bad Apples" that provide checks without sufficient funds. These bad checks are difficult, if not impossible, to collect once they are accepted. Fortunately, I've encountered a minimum number of them over my 4 years selling on the net.
While there are varying opinions about Paypal, I've found their service to be a great benefit to us. Payments are immediate and allow us to quickly complete online transactions. This allows us to concentrate on the most important aspects of our business - buying and selling. We've completed thousands of transactions using Paypal and have not experienced a single problem with the service. The fees are minimal and are worth it for the service they provide.
posted on March 27, 2001 07:49:12 AM new
Same reason that the big stores like walmart do not take them. Just takes too long for them to clear. I take them, but its a gamble. This day and age, why should it take weeks or months to clear a check?
[ edited by gs4 on Mar 27, 2001 10:20 AM ]
posted on March 27, 2001 07:58:45 AM new
I accept checks OK in the categories I sell. However I am aware that in certain categories it is common to have bad checks ( among those that even try to finish the transaction )
For example I will never sell things in bicycle accesories again. I tried and had a 50% deadbeat rate.
posted on March 27, 2001 08:47:01 AM new
If you ever have a check for $350 bounce it's way back to you from the other side of the USA 26 days after you deposit it, you will understand. 'nuff said.
posted on March 27, 2001 08:58:49 AM new
all payment forms have their drawbacks.
as a seller, checks have the most drawbacks.
I take checks but encourage other forms of payment by delaying delivery when I receive a check payment and shipping right away when receiving other forms of payment.
many banks will let persons start new checking accounts and start the check numbers at any number, for instance, 0001 or 5001...low check numbers or high check number mean absolutely nothing.
I have no way of verifying if a person has had an account for 1 week or 30 years and if they have ever bounced checks accidentally or on purpose. Feedbacks can be a fair way to determine a person creditability but some with good feedbacks have written me hot checks. If I had a brick and mortar store and a customer came in with a check, I could look them in the eyes to make my judgement, I could call the local bank, and I would probably have a VeriCheck system that could verify and guarantee the payment, but I don't have those assurances with my Internet business.
It's a shame that a few hot check writers spoil it for the many honest people who never have and never will write a hot check. But, the fact is that the potential of bounced checks has most sellers saying "no checks" and many buyers are inconvenienced by that. Just like most of us have never carried a bomb or gun on board an airplane but we still have to be delayed and inconvenienced by having to go through the metal detectors - I'm glad of that!
The Internet is changing the way persons shop and do business. Find those that do business more like what you want and stick with them.
A bit off the thread topic, but Walmart doesn't take checks? MIne, located in a small town in Virginia, does.
Back to the thread: as a buyer, I follow the rules. If a seller takes checks, I send a check. Money orders only, I get a money order. Anything else, I don't bid.
posted on March 27, 2001 10:03:31 AM newbennt22That's simply irresponsible communication! I deal strictly in pop culture items and found my customers to be of all sorts of responsible people. I found the problems moreso when kids were on the sites bidding rather than adult credit card carrying customers. Boo to your statement!
posted on March 27, 2001 10:05:05 AM new
Wisegirl Then you are lucky if they do take checks. But I notice more and more of the big stores that are no longer taking them becouse of the time and cost. Our local walmart will not take checks, nor does the walmart down the road.
[ edited by gs4 on Mar 27, 2001 10:21 AM ]
posted on March 27, 2001 10:09:23 AM new
Where I live, Jack in the Box and McDonald's take checks. I still haven't figured out why somebody would write one for a $1.50 hamburger.
posted on March 27, 2001 10:11:12 AM new
I do accept checks but I had one buyer with 250+ all positive feedbacks bounce a check!! Now, if I get checks over $50 I always call the bank the check is drawn on after 10 days to verify the check has cleared before mailing the item.
posted on March 27, 2001 10:13:24 AM new
I've been taking checks for over 4 years on ebay, 1 bouncer, made good very quickly, and I don't wait for them to clear before I ship either. Customers seem to appreciate it
posted on March 27, 2001 10:19:59 AM new
I know many bidders will bypass auctions that do not accept checks. Personally I would most likely bid one dollar less on an auction that made me make a trip to the cash station and then to get a money order. A lot of the "money order" folks do not take a credit card or other payment service either.
posted on March 27, 2001 10:32:26 AM new
With the advent of the PayPal, etc paying services, there is less need to accept checks. A check can come back a month after it was written. Do sellers and buyers want to wait a month??? The argument that the store around the corner takes your check is silly because THEY can easily prosecute you, the online seller can not.
The silliest thing is the people who "do not use cc or debit cards on line". These people won't use an unbreakable encrypted server yet every day buy stuff at local stores whose garbage contains your purchase info. I've never heard of an incident where somebody got XXXXX'x cc number "off the internet". I take paypal because the rate is less than half the cc service charge from my merchant account. As a buyer, if a seller does not take PayPal or cc, I pass them by.
We operate a rental business and take cc as a deposit to insure the item's return. Have any sellers had the experience that the people that "don't believe in credit cards" ALWAYS cause a problem. It's geting so that every time we hear the phrase we reach for the aspirin.
posted on March 27, 2001 10:55:18 AM new
Hi - I stopped taking checks when I ran into a bad run of NSF checks -- It can take 30 days to clear a check - depending where it was written - buyers don't as a rule understand waiting for a check to clear -- the 10 day rule of thumb doesn't work -- the check won't be cleared in that short a time and I hate having to chase people. I don't sell in the abovementioned difficult categories - I generally sell , collectibles , china , glass , linens etc. I had never had a problem in 600 transactions in which I took them - but then I had 10 bounce in 2 months!!! and the persons feedback didn't make a difference - one person who bounced had almost 800 Pos feedbacks!!- It was just too expensive to continue.
posted on March 27, 2001 11:05:36 AM new
I'm a seller that likes the instant gratification of getting my money NOW via PayPal, Billpoint etc rather than waiting a week or two for a check to appear and then clear. I have no problem letting the online payment services skim off their 2% or so, it's well worth it to me. For the life of me I still can't understand why experienced users with feedbacks in the hundreds would rather pay by check/money order and send their payment via the good old US Mail rather than pay instantly using their credit card via the online payment services - they would save the price of a stamp, possibly the cost of a money order/cashiers check, perhaps get some frequent flyer miles from their credit card and more importantly they would receive their goods at least a week sooner...
posted on March 27, 2001 11:07:12 AM new
I don't take checks because I had one bounce after 28 days. I am out $400.00 Since I quit taking checks over a year ago my auctions bring as much or more money.
Try driving to another state and see how many places will take your check. Very few or none so why should I take a check from out of state on eBay.
I have seen many cases where checks bounced after 20 to 30 days. How about if I take your check and hold the item 30 days?
posted on March 29, 2001 07:26:02 AM new
Why not take checks?
After six years in consumer banking I know full well that a check can be recalled or bounce for up to/over 30 days. I empathize with those of you who have been burned by a $400 piece of rubber bouncing through their account Hopefully those of you who choose to accept checks are not using your primary checking accounts or a transactional account to deposit them (an ounce of prevention!)
Calling the bank the check is written on? To verify whether a check is "good at present" (1) takes time (2) costs long distance fees and, most importantly, (3)only verifies that sufficient funds are there right now to cover the amount of the document ~ it does not hold funds while (a)I get the check from my bank (b)to the federal reserve in my state to (c)the federal reserve in their state to (d)the bank the check is drwan on. Add to this the time it will take in the event the funds are not available/insufficient. Now, notification of a bad check goes (e)back from their bank through (f)the feds (g)to me sheesh! Imagine what it was like before we had computers! Amazing that the system ever worked at all, isn't it?
ennyhoo ~ No way I'm going to hold up shipping that long ~ I'd like to get my cash and move on, please.
That being said, I do take checks from bidders that have over 100 FB and returning buyers
Minimize the risk, maximize the cash flow
Words of wisdom to live by. So many folks do not know just how long It takes to clear checks. I agree with your statement.
[ edited by gs4 on Mar 29, 2001 08:42 AM ]
posted on March 29, 2001 12:28:01 PM new
Ever notice that mail order companies don't take checks anymore? CC's or Money Orders, even when they did take checks it delayed shipping 4-6 weeks and if you ever did send a check for something mail order it always took over 6 weeks to get it. think they knew something every ebay seller seems not to?
We hold checks 15 days, we use to hold for 25 days, too many complaints and most of the time a bounced check will get back to you within about 15 days, even with all the traveling it has to do, unless the other bank holds it to try to run in again. on the wall right now I have 7 bounced checks feedback is what I wrote on the check at the time the check came back, amount is before bank fees, these are for the last 4 months.
check number----feedback------amount before bounced check fees
1230-------------31-----------8.59
257--------------350----------10.50
948--------------92-----------11.35
457--------------69-----------36.80
1534-------------550----------40.00
bank MO----------125----------135.21
394--------------14------------38.72
feedback doesn't mean a thing, I've had people with over 1000 bounce a check, as you can see a bank money order doesn't mean a thing either. they sent the bank MO I sent them a payment received letter, they contacted the bank and stopped payment on the MO the day they got my email. I called the bank and they said that it cost them 15 dollars to stop payment and that they were closing this persons account because this was the second time they had a complaint with her for the same reason. I guess if you can get it for 15.00(the cost of canceling the MO) who cares how much you bid, and if I was the bank it would have only been once!
what I feel like saying is, "if you plan on paying with a check send another 2.50 to help defray the cost of taking checks" then I wouldn't even worry about trying to collect on the checks that bounce.
if both ends of the transaction are in California you can send the bounced check to the DA's office after 30 days, they will collect the amount of the bounced check before bank fees, also the person has to pay bail of 100.00 and has enroll and complete a class on how to manage their money.
we've been selling for about 2-1/2 years,11,000 net sales showing in our accounting software in January, about 1800.00 in bad checks and fees and about 1/2 of the people make good on the bounced checks so we are about 900.00 in the hole for taking checks on the net.
we don't take PayPal because of the high fees, yes they are high our merchant account was 1.77% and .11 cents per transaction, the one good thing about PayPal when we did take them is we never had a chargeback. if I could force everyone that wanted to write a check to use PayPal it would cost me about the same.
I guess what it comes down to is you just can't win, ebay is a mail order flea market, if your going to be in business you have to set your rules for doing business. Your not going to please everyone, I can live with that, there are only 5,000,000+ items listed for sale on ebay, it is estimated that there are 200,000 regular/core sellers on ebay. If you start doing the math it hurts your head, but if you can't play by the rules the person has stated in their auction just go onto the next. If you want it bad enough or it is a unique item play by the rules the seller has, if you can't don't bid.
one more side note on checks, you write a check for 5.00 and mail it off. if you have the bank numbers from the check and your set up to print checks, like check by phone or basically the same way that PayPal takes it from your account. someone can rip you off just as easy or easier than by CC. You can even buy a kit on ebay to take checks by phone. Call the bank tell them your a merchant calling to verify funds on a check for say 845.00 they say it's good, go to the computer and make yourself a check for 845.00 deposit it or take it to someone that will take a 3rd party check like a check cashing place. you just got clipped for 845.00 and you'll be fighting for awhile trying to get it straightened out which you probably will and if they catch the guy he's going away for a long time, but it can happen.
don't get me wrong I hate PayPal, but I would rather give one person all my info and have them responsible to manage the transaction and be able to go back on them if there is a problem instead of everybody under the sun having my CC number or my bank numbers.
posted on March 29, 2001 12:48:17 PM new
gs4:
glad you agree, but hopefully not from personal experience!
regarding the last two paragraphs from airguy:
100% correct ~ when you deposit a check into your account, all of your numbers are imprinted on it by the federal reserve when it MICR encodes the check. VERY bad idea to let people have that info from a paying or receiving standpoint. Buyers and Sellers be careful!
same topic, different twist, recent example:
As stated in my earlier post, I do make exceptions and accept checks ~ it happens about once a month (1 sale in 100?). I got one of my "exceptions" in today's mail. Not only is the standard info printed on the check (name & addy) also printed on there is the persons phone number, their Driver's License number, AND their Social Security number!! Add to it their signature, with DL photo's readily available for most states. Pretty easy to falsify my identity there and shop til ya drop, huh? I could get myself into a whole heap-o-trouble with all of that info.
hmmm...Good thing I'm honest.
but why did the buyer trust me?
Some issues that I want to mention, that may help some sellers that utilize the service (or have had check issues in the past) clear certain payment hurdles.
1. Echeck payments will not bounce. The money has been added in from the end user and is taken from a verified bank account. The user can cancel the transaction before it clears, but once it clears---it is yours. There is also a 5.00 maximum charge on echeck payments.
2. Credit card payments-charge backs are a fact of life if you accept credit card payments, but there are ways to be protected from them (see Seller Protection Program details on the web site).
3. Fees-fees for payments are very competitive and the acceptance of certain options, such as credit cards, can help increase the number of bids or the amount someone is willing to pay. There is also a way for the end user to reduce their fee amounts.
I am basically posting this information to educate users on how to protect themselves from charge backs and how you can process echeck payments with no risk of it bouncing.
After six years in consumer banking I know full well that a check can be recalled or bounce for up to/over 30 days. I empathize with those of you who have been burned by a $400 piece of rubber bouncing through their account 
Hopefully those of you who choose to accept checks are not using your primary checking accounts or a transactional account to deposit them (an ounce of prevention!)
sheesh! Imagine what it was like before we had computers! Amazing that the system ever worked at all, isn't it?
