posted on March 28, 2001 07:43:38 AM
Last night, I won an auction via BIN. 40 minutes later, I get an e-mail that she sold the item to someone else and could not honor my BIN bid.
This a.m. she confirmed that she completed the transaction with the other person, and will not honor my bid. Her reasoning is that the other person contacted her first about the item, and they had been talking back and forth via IM. Apparently, this other person paid for the item via paypal (40 minutes after I won the auction), went back to do the BIN and discovered I had already won.
I have already reported her to safeharbor. Any good ideas on feedback to leave? I want to keep it professional and unemotional. But, needless to say, I AM peeved.
BTW, I am NOT kidsfeet on Ebay.
Edited due to typos.
[ edited by kidsfeet on Mar 28, 2001 07:44 AM ]
posted on March 28, 2001 08:21:42 AM
What a terrible thing to do!!! Hoping that you kept the seller's email telling you what she did so that you could send it to safeharbor as part of your complaint. Someone like that should definitely be NARU'd. I sincerely hope ebay does something to help you here. It will be difficult to do feedback without emotion in response to such a nasty thing that the seller did!
How about: 40min AFTER I won auction,seller sold to non-bidder. Won't honor my bid! BEWARE
posted on March 28, 2001 09:05:11 AM
I hope she plans on reporting the sale to eBay. If not, she can get nabbed for fee avoidance here as well. (May want to bring that to eBay's attention...)
posted on March 28, 2001 10:07:46 AM
Negative definately. State that "Seller informed me after I won by BIN that she already sold item" She'll probably negative in retaliation, but she def. deserves a negative. A buyer on yahoo did that to me once and then responded to my feedback that I didn't really win the auction just because I had the highest bid. Those were his words.
posted on March 28, 2001 10:26:36 AM
Their feedback is 11, all pos, but none since 1999. They had 4 auctions on, two of them with BIN. This was a great deal, it sold within 3 1/2 hours of being listed. Oh well.
posted on March 28, 2001 10:49:09 AM
What a bunch of hot heads! I am just joking, some people think I am to.
I see you have already written safeharbor etc, etc. An unemotional e-mail as you call it might have done the trick. A simple It is too bad the other person did not follow the rules properly, I did follow eBays rules and I hope you see that I am the winner and honor the bid. For an additional $20.00 they can contact me and by it back
Well maybe leave out the last line. That might be all it took to reslove this. The talking of safeharbor, negs, etc. should be left out until reasonable communications have been made. So now you pissed this person by writing eBay about it. She may neg you because of that regardless if you pay right away and leave her good feedback.
I give an example, I got an e-mail one morning before I went to work from a customer that received the wrong item from me. The said they did not like the shipping charge and expected me to make the auction right by sending the correct item. Well they had already left me neg feedback saying the wrong items had been received, did not give me a chance to make it right.
After that I told them to kiss me where ...., well you know where and I gave them a neg back in return just for being jerks.
Actually, we had several e-mails back and forth regarding this situation, beginning 45 minutes after the auction ended last night. I did not just jump to safeharbor. I did that AFTER she confirmed this morning that she completed the transaction with the other person and already shipped the item out.
I did not mention Safeharbor, or Negative feedback until AFTER her last e-mail this morning, within which stated that she sold and shipped the item this morning to the other buyer.
Once she said that, I told her I had no other alternative but to report her as a non-performing seller and leave a negative feedback.
She responded a last time stating that she had no doubt that I would.
[ edited by kidsfeet on Mar 28, 2001 10:57 AM ]
posted on March 28, 2001 10:58:49 AM
Take a deep breath, step back for a few minutes and think about this.
Yes, you ARE disapointed, and rightly so. But, on the plus side, you are not out any money.
The seller had no way of knowing you were going to bid. The seller was working with a "live" buyer. They were communicating back and forth...looks like the other buyer had a few questions about the item. They came to an understanding and the buyer said he was going to buy it, paid and then went to finalize the transaction by ending the auction with "buy it now".
The buyer and seller were so involved with the communications that they forgot the auction could still be bid on by another. They obviously didn't consider the possibility of someone bidding before the buyer finalized the deal.
The seller is/was in a hard place...she has one person who paid for the item and another who actually closed the auction by bidding first. She feels she has more of an obligation to the other bidder. You don't agree...but if she decided to sell to you the other person would be as peeved as you are.
You both can't be satisfied.
Let it go. The seller didn't delibertly do anything to you. The seller was trying to be a good seller and work with a customer. She wasn't trying to avoid fees.
The whole situation was a "comedy of errors". One that was not planned nor forseen. Sh*t happens. Sometimes we are the sh*ttee, other times we are the sh*ttor. Mistakes are made. Being understanding of other's mistakes makes for a more tolerant world.
If you feel you need to give feedback, why not make it a neutral that says..."Unable to purchase item due to seller's goof, I'm disapointed"
posted on March 28, 2001 11:02:33 AM
Never leave a neutral when the other person can leave a negative. After a neutral the feedback # stays the same, but negative subtracts one from your fb.
posted on March 28, 2001 11:02:48 AM
IF (and this is a big IF - cuz I wouldn't do it) I was ever doing that - before I had a buyer send me any $ I'd take the auction OFF Ebay to prevent this from occurring..
Of course, I follow the rules (whether I necessarily believe their always right or not) so this would never happen if I was the seller.. 8)
Actually, she KNEW I was interested. She responded to an e-mail I sent requesting additional pics less than an hour before I did BIN. If the other person was a serious contender at that point, why did she even bother to send me 4 additional pics, and ask me to provide my zip code to get a shipping estimate?
If she had never responded to my e-mail that evening, I never would have bid.
posted on March 28, 2001 11:30:00 AM
Well, first off, you did not provide that little bit of information in your first post. It would be better to give the total picture before you ask for opinions.
I didn't say the seller was in the right and you were wrong. I believe I was saying the seller did make a mistake. But, like all the rest of us humans, she isn't perfect. She made a mistake as ALL of us do at times (you made one by not giving the FULL story initially).
From what you are saying it doesn't sound like she was trying to break any of ebay's rules. She goofed! She didn't think! The fact that the other buyer went in to do a bin gives some substance to an argument that there was no intent to avoid ebay fees.
If every person who makes a mistake and breaks one of ebay's rules in the process were to be NARUed there would soon be no one left trading on ebay.
I was just suggesting that this is to small of a thing to get uptight over. Let it go. If you goofed you would hope the other person would cut you some slack.
It is only inanimate items, "stuff", we are dealing with here. Is "stuff" really THAT important?
posted on March 28, 2001 11:55:01 AM
I'm not even sure if there was another buyer. Maybe she realized she had the item priced too low and decided she didn't want to sell at that price.
If there was another buyer they must have worked out some kind of deal because why else would someone pay without bidding. Makes no sense to me.
posted on March 28, 2001 12:01:42 PM
Yes, Amy, it IS just stuff. And the sky won't fall because of it. But, I still have a right to let other potential bidders know what she did, mistake or not. She was allegedly IM'ing with this person for TWO hours, and DURING that time she e-mailed me the pics.
I don't want her booted off Ebay. She won't be, either, unless there are more complaints other than mine.
She had the opportunity to make it right, and did not. In fact, in one of last her e-mails she asked me how I'd pay if she returned the other bidder's money. I told her via money order, the same day...just as I always do. Since she already had the money via paypal, I think THAT is what was important to her. And, I'll let other bidders know.
I have no idea if she's done this before. But the next person will certainly be warned.
She's conducting business. No business is perfect. Mistakes are made. I've made them selling, but ALWAYS make it right, even if it costs me money.
Disatisfied "customers" have a right to let others know why. And on Ebay, the way to do that is in the feedback forum, and reporting to Ebay. It IS too bad, because she lost a potential repeat customer, because I would not waste my time on her auctions in the future.
posted on March 28, 2001 01:08:55 PM
Kidsfeet....are you negging to warn others or are you negging because your peeved?
If she made it right for you then the other person would feel peeved.
In my opinion, in this situation there is no "right" solution. The seller, no matter what they do, will p*ss off one of you. That person will not become a repeat buyer (no matter if it is you or the other buyer).
I can understand giving a neg to warn about behavior that looks like it is chronic. but this situation, if it is as you said it was (meaning their isn't something you are unaeare of), then I don't see it as a chronic behavior problem. It sounds like a one time laspe in judgement.
posted on March 28, 2001 01:16:44 PM
Let it go? No way...This seller is most likely lying. If there is another buyer who contacted the seller via IM, then that buyer, while possibly peeved, has no claim on an auction they didn't actually bid on.
Leave an unemotional neg and notify SafeHarbor with all copies of emails etc.
posted on March 28, 2001 01:23:52 PM
kidsfeet-
some time ago (2 years?) I had a seller end an auction while I was high bidder at approx. $30. I contacted her, and she claimed that her husband hadn't realized the item was being auctioned, and sold it to someone else that he called from their shop. I pointed out (politely) that this was against the rules, that she should have cancelled my bid before ending the auction, etc. I asked if he had shipped the item yet, and how much she had sold it for, as my proxy bid was considerably higher than the price showing on the auction. Funny thing, all of a sudden, she would be willing to sell it to me for $150, and so what about the buyer her husband had called! I told her what I thought of her business ethics, said no thanks, and left a very nasty neutral (she had a history of retaliatory negs, and I had very low feedback at the time - today, I would have made it a neg!). EBay won't do anything - they can't force a seller to sell you an item, and in fact, say that if the seller feels uncomfortable about completing a transaction, they may cancel it. Your only recourse is feedback.
posted on March 28, 2001 02:07:01 PM
let it go??? NOT! The seller didn't just make a tiny little boo boo...She didn't inadvertently send the item out to the wrong person or something.
She purposefully sold the item to a non-bidder and left the auction active allowing you to "win" it. I once had someone writing me for addl info on an auction and wanting to buy it. She was going to do the BIN, but before she got to actually placing her bid, someone else bought it with BIN. I had no choice but to apologize for the inconvenience and sell it to the actual winning bidder at which time I attempted to find another one for the girl that didn't win.
I totally agree with the majority that would report her and neg her! What she did was bad business in a huge way!
And P.S...Don't let anyone tell you that you are making too much out of it. You are making out of it EXACTLY what it is! You were screwed and I, for one, wouldn't want to come along behind you not knowing what that seller is like and bid on something of hers! Thanks, kidsfeet!
[ edited by sharkbaby on Mar 28, 2001 02:09 PM ]
posted on March 28, 2001 02:51:05 PM
I think the argument that 'it's just stuff' is disingenuous. Why not give your stuff away for free? After all, it's just stuff! The fact is that whether or not it is 'stuff', there are still rules to follow and while I suspect, too, that there is no way to make it "all better" for BOTH bidders, the fact is that the one who followed the rules should be given preference. The other bidder may be a completely wonderful person who did not realize the mistake that they were making, but it was still a MISTAKE to pay for an item without having first placed a bid.
The poster, on the other hand, followed the rules in regard to this auction and should be given the chance to complete the item.
The seller's discomfort and no-win position will hopefully serve as an incentive for him/her to be more circumspect in the future regarding 'selling' an item before an actual winning bid is placed.
I've had inquiries where it appeared the potential buyer has his/her heart set on an item, and have always included in my return email: Remember, the item will be sold to the person with the winning bid, or the first person to use buy it now.
I would leave a factual neg to reinforce the lesson to the seller.
posted on March 28, 2001 03:02:14 PM
I guess I'm just a more laid back person then. Since I would have no way of knowing for sure she was lying, I would be making assumptions if I gave a negative based on thinking a seller was lying.
I still think it is no big thing and I would not get upset about it....other than a few choice words being hurled at the computer screen. I would be out nothing...really wasn't screwed. Unless the item was listed at a BIN price that was really low in comparison to what it should sell at and I had already mentally spent the huge profit I would make by reselling it .
I guess I'm just not worried about giving a seller (or buyer) a "slap" or "opening her eyes". I don't think someone who has all of 11 feedback and no feedback activity since 1999 (2 years ago) is exactly an experienced ebayer.
If I wanted to "open her eyes" so she can be a better seller I would probably have emailed her and told her I understood the dilemma she had found herself in. I would have suggested that next time she make sure the buyer has ended the auction by bidding on the buy it now before she accepts payment from that buyer. I would explain that other buyers may not be as easy to get along with as I am and could give her a scathing negative and report her to safe harbor.
That is how I would have handled it. That is my opinion, which is what you asked for in your first post.
posted on March 28, 2001 03:06:25 PM
Whether or not this seller was lying is not the point. There are rules for the selling game, and she broke one. She didn't just bend it, it wasn't a misunderstanding, for whatever reason, she decided to ignore the Right thing to do.
Feedback being low has nothing to do with it either. The rules of the game apply to all, not just those who have reached a certain number in feedback.
It is a lot easier to be so gracious when the situation isn't yours. No one really suggested leaving a "scathing" feedback, just a consise one.
posted on March 28, 2001 03:12:45 PMBrighid868...disingenuous? No.
We aren't talking about a seller seeing it as "just stuff" but the buyer to whom it is "just stuff". It is the buyer who is upset because she didn't get the item.
The buyer hasn't been damaged...the only tangible thing she has lost was the time she spent looking at the item, emailing for pictures, looking at the picture and bidding. And although all of our time has some value, what the buyer lost is only a little time.
Your argument that since I said it was "just stuff" it would follow that I should just give away my merchandise is flawed. That conclusion cannot be drawn from this set of circumstances. It is illogical.
The reason I gave the opinion I did is because that IS the way I would do it. I guess I am just a gracious person.
Rules are rules...yes, I guess they are. But in the world of dealing with customers and selling merchandise there are a lot of times when you are trying to do what is right and you break a "rule".
What happened here is not the breaking of a law...the seller did nothing illegal. And since we are not in the seller's head we cannot assume anything about this other than what has been stated here. From what has been stated here the seller did not set out to break any rules. At the time she accepted payment and the buyer went to finalize the sale by bidding on the BIN she thought she was within the rules...and she was.
The problem arose when it turned out someone had already bid. The fact that the seller chose to complete the sale with the person she considered the first buyer does technically break the ebay rules about the bid being a binding contract for both buyer and seller...but even ebay realizes they cannot force a seller to sell.
As I said, I would have been only temporarily upset...and that upset would have been minor. It is, after all, only stuff. Maybe that's why I don't get upset at real life auctions when I am outbid...its only stuff afterall. And maybe thats why I don't leave negative feedback anymore for the few deadbeat bidders I get...its only stuff and a few pennies. Its not worth getting stressed over.
[ edited by amy on Mar 28, 2001 03:25 PM ]
oops
