teddybuyer
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:09:15 PM new
I had an auction which finished back in mid January for a $10 item. I have been told lots and lots of stories by the buyer but still haven't received payment. It is now too late to file as a NPB.
I should leave a neg, I know I should. I fell really guilty that I haven't left a neg. Problem is (in my mind at least) that I sell quite a few items for several hundreds of $ and I am scared that even 1 retaliatory neg on my profile will put some buyers off. All people see is that 1 red mark, even in nearly 300 positives. That will cost me money!! Why do I feel quilty? What would you do?
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toollady
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:15:51 PM new
teddybuyer,
Many a good seller have retaliatory negs. If one is left for you, leave a factual non-emotional response.
When you leave the neg for the buyer, do the same.
1 neg is not going to "kill" you. Most of us wear it as a badger of honor! 
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reddeer
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:28:15 PM new
Colin
My Canuck 2 cents worth, don't bother. I generally never leave negs, but I broke my golden rule yesterday just so I could see someone go from 0 to -1. I'm easily amused. 
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wharris19
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:31:48 PM new
toollady If I see a seller with a lot of positive and one or two neg. I don't think much about it but the phase "a badge of honor" just doesn't sit right. Maybe you would like think about that one again.
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teddybuyer
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:37:01 PM new
I am full of mixed emotions when it comes down to it. My sense of "Community" makes me want to warn other sellers. My business sense tells me I have nothing to gain from leaving a neg. It wouldn't make me any money and could harm me to some extent. And last but not least, the nasty side of me wants some revenge because the buyer wasted my time and energy. Oh, what to do
Always searching for Heffalumps
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mballai
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:45:49 PM new
Leaving a neg is a simple statement of fact...or should be. Just state the fact that the auction ended in January for a $10 item and you have received no payment. If he retaliates, just respond that he's a deadbeat.
The overwhelming number of deadbeats do not retaliate in my experience. Do it and be done with it. It will free your mind...and make the next neg easy...
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teddybuyer
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posted on April 3, 2001 05:50:27 PM new
mballai - A large part of me agrees with you but what is in it for me? What do I gain by negging this buyer? How does my eBay business benefit? The NPB scheme helps rid eBay of deadbeats. It is to my advantage to use that. Feedback seems to have no effect on these buyers. All you have to do is read some threads on AW to realise that. Sad, but true.
Always searching for Heffalumps
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misscandle
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posted on April 3, 2001 06:19:30 PM new
Teddybuyer:
You aren't a coward, you're a businessperson. You are asking good and valid questions, and have outlined the 2 sides of the feedback issue very well.
That being said, I would agree with Reddeer and just let it go. You should kick yourself for not getting your FVF, but don't be concerned about not leaving a negative. Your first priority should be your business and your family. The "community" (if it still exists) is made up of big girls and boys who can take care of themselves. This may seem like a selfish view, but the community does not pay your bills.....and some of them will be among the first to avoid your auctions when they see a red mark. I respect those who have a different opinion on this point, but until the issue of retaliatory negatives is adequately addressed by Ebay, we'll have to agree to disagree about this.
So, this old lady's advice is to forget about it and use your time to find those dang Heffalumps!
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stan41
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posted on April 3, 2001 06:25:05 PM new
I never leave negs. It could not possibly do me any good financially and might do harm.
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teddybuyer
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posted on April 3, 2001 06:36:28 PM new
misscandle - I am certainly kicking myself for not claiming Credit. I have done that several times and have gladly seen the back of some Deadbeats this way. That is my way of helping "The Community" and helping my business at the same time. There I can see the logic. As for negs, I think I will follow the advice of the majority and not bother.
Oh well, back to Heffalump hunting. These footprints just go on and on!!!
Always searching for Heffalumps
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auctionee
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:13:51 PM new
As a buyer, if I see a seller with a large number of positives and no negatives, it makes me feel as if something is not quite right because I know, as a seller, that you can't make everyone happy.
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zoomin
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:14:13 PM new
I used to routinely leave negs. After leaving about 25, I got my first retaliatory.
I still leave my negs (after filing for fees) ~ if the DeadBeat didn't get NARU'ed, I leave the neg on day 88 or 89. cheezy? maybe. But it covers my tush while I do my best to help out the "community". It works for me and other sellers appreciate it!
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punchki75
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:19:22 PM new
Teddybuyer,
It's okay to leave negative feedback for a person. I recently had the same situation happen to me, where a winning bidder on one of my auctions did not follow through. She assured me she wanted the item, but I still have not received payment from this buyer, and she has stopped returning my emails. It's been about four weeks now, and I have given her plenty of time to follow through. I will now stop trying as I would like to relist my item. I wrote to let her know that a negative feedback would be on its way. We'll see what happens? It couldn't hurt to see what she says to that........
Punchki
About Me - Old And Sold
About Me - Ebay
[ edited by punchki75 on Apr 3, 2001 07:24 PM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:25:56 PM new
teddybuyer
In my experience, only 1 in 20 deadbeats will leave a retaliatory neg so your chances of receiving one is low.
With a feedback rating of over 300, 1 neg will not hurt you at all. I know of one seller with almost 1000 negatives and an 8% negative rate who is selling like crazy...
I would guess that most people don't even read your feedback profile before bidding.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Apr 3, 2001 07:27 PM ]
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mballai
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:41:48 PM new
Leaving a neg is what one does for community. I routinely check bidders and sellers feedback to have a clearer picture of whom I am dealing with.
If my neighbor is being robbed, I call the cops, go down and make a statement and perhaps even testify in court. I personally gain nothing and might place myself at risk if the crook or his cronies seek revenge. It happens, but not to stand up and tell the truth diminishes us all.
The only way to deal with that which is wrong is to expose it. Those who don't do so create an environment where this behavior can flourish. Is that what you want?
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toollady
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posted on April 3, 2001 07:57:19 PM new
wharris19~~ I have a retaliatory neg from a deadbeat. I wear it proudly in my feedback.
If you read it, you will see the buyer is lying. I left a factual neg with no emotion.
Just stated the facts. When the retaliatory was left, I responded.
The deadbeat looks stupid for leaving the neg the way they did and only after the neg was left for them.
NOT toollady on ebay
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ph44
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posted on April 3, 2001 08:10:01 PM new
You probably are too late to file for FVF's but leaving negative feedback may alert other sellers to the "charms" of this dead beat. On the few deadbeats that made promises of payment but never followed through I left a positive account of their deceptive behavior as Negative Feedback.
Usually like "Excellent communicator many excuses and promises NO PAYMENT."
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squinkle99
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posted on April 4, 2001 04:50:03 AM new
Just to let everyone know. Any feedback can be left for auctions over 90 days old. I am not sure how far past 90, but I have done it. There is even a link in the feedback forum specifically for this purpose.
I say this because I don't want someone to get lulled into a false sense of security regarding retaliatory negs after passing the 90 day mark.
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RM
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posted on April 4, 2001 05:05:53 AM new
teddybuyer,
The truth is, the feed back system is a fluff machine. Don't worry about it, just take tare of your business as you see fit. Yes, warning others about deadbeat bidders or bad sellers is the good "community" thing to do, BUT the risk of undeserved negs in return may simply not be worth it to you. It's your call to make.
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spazmodeus
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posted on April 4, 2001 05:15:05 AM new
File a Non Paying Bidder Alert, request your Final Value Fee, and paint their feedback red. It's a three-part process, and for the good of all sellers you should see it through to the end.
These deadbeats just keep moving on to rip off other sellers because people are too timid to take steps against them.
And don't worry about retaliatory feedback. I'll let you in on a secret -- nobody gives a flying fig about feedback anymore. If you have an item the buyer really wants, he or she isn't going to let some idiot's petty jab at you get between them and that item. Anyway, in a week or two it'll be buried and that'll be that.
People here put way too much emphasis on feedback. It meant a lot in earlier years, but I think it's more or less meaningless now.
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eventer
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posted on April 4, 2001 05:17:54 AM new
teddybuyer,
Only YOU know what's best for your business & this decision can only be made by you.
There are good reasons on both sides of this issue. It would be a whole lot easier on everyone if there was some mechanism for both sellers AND buyers which locked out the other party once a transaction had gone south.
But there isn't, so we all live with the potential impact.
I, personally, don't hesitate to leave negs when I've done all I can & the other party hasn't lived up to their obligations.
I look at retaliatory negs like this..you don't go through life without getting a few scars along the way.
If you have gone through life w/o a scar or two, then you really haven't lived.
Best of luck & make a decision that's right for YOU.
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toolhound
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posted on April 4, 2001 06:03:28 AM new
What good is the feedback system if you don't leave Negatives? If we are all going to leave good feedback or none then lets all leave none. The feedback system does not work without Negatives.
I have left over 40 Negatives and woke up this morning to my 3rd Retalitory Negative. Here is that Negative and my response.
Complaint: email from you would have gotten a better response than e-bay gettininvolved
Response: "e-bay gettininvolved " is what happens when you are a deadbeat and do not pay!!
I think all of my future bidders will see this feedback for what it is.
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Pocono
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posted on April 4, 2001 06:21:04 AM new
I left 51 Negs last week. Got 2 retaliatories.
Use to bother me, no more...
People almost ALWAYS check the feedback of the one who negged you, and see that you left a Deadbeat neg first, and they know it's bullsh*t.
I have no mercy anymore.
Let the blood (red neg) flow...
I particularly enjoy negging the scum with 100+ postitives and no negs who deadbeat 
I don't think twice about it anymore.
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reddeer
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posted on April 4, 2001 06:24:20 AM new
What good is the feedback system if you don't leave Negatives?
Ok, I'll bite.
From a sellers perspective I could care less if my high bidder has a neg or two. I'm not about to cancel their bid on the word of another seller, nor would I treat them any differently than if their feedback was all pos. Some sellers are dorks, and just because they felt the need to leave neg feedback doesn't affect my transaction with this customer in the least. I've sold to newbies with NPB negs & my deal went through without a hitch.
From a bidders perspective, negs mean A LOT, especially to the kinds of bidders that search out & read each & every one of them. As a buyer I always leave negs when the situation calls for it [it doesn't affect MY business with my buyer ID], but as a seller it seems pointless.
If you really want to get deadbeats where it will do them the most harm, file the NPB notice, and then for the FVF. If they truly are a bad seed, they'll get shown the door soon enough.
Of course they can always come back within a few hours with a new ID. They can also decide to play "payback" with all the sellers that negged them before they became NARU.
[ edited by reddeer on Apr 4, 2001 06:25 AM ]
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zoomin
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posted on April 4, 2001 06:31:07 AM new
>>I left 51 Negs last week<<
OMG, POCONO!
Is that the norm for you?
I can't begin to imagine how frustrating it must be to deal with that many DB's!
How can you even keep track of your auctions with that many winning losers? I didn't know there were so many out there!
I'm glad my auctions don't have them coming out of the woodwork like that! I'd lose my mind!!!
*you have earned even more of my respect than you had before*
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loosecannon
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posted on April 4, 2001 06:39:09 AM new
I have 3 or 4 (or more) deadbeats now that have not honored their bid, or, are in the process of not honoring it.
I'm going to relish giving these people the negs they earned.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 4, 2001 07:47:58 AM new
I've never left a neg for a deadbeat and I never will under the current feedback system.
It's hard to understand the logic behind statements like "As a buyer, if I see a seller with a large number of positives and no negatives, it makes me feel as if something is not quite right because I know, as a seller, that you can't make everyone happy."
Well, if a seller has over 1300 feedback (total between 2 seller accounts) and no negs (me, for example), what could possibly be "not right"? I prefer to think most reasonable bidders see my feedback and think "This seller must be ok to deal with. Not even one buyer has had a problem with him worthy of leaving a neg."
At least this is how I see it, and based on the number of bids I get as and the number of bids my direct competitors get I believe it.
Negs for deadbeats to no harm to the deadbeat. He can just re-register under a fresh new ID and continue business as usual. Retaliatory negs for sellers CAN do harm to the seller with no benefits whatsoever to the seller.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Apr 4, 2001 07:49 AM ]
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computerboy
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posted on April 4, 2001 07:59:08 AM new
Sellers should never be afraid to give an appropriate negative feeback remark as long as there is a reasonable explanation for the poor mark.
I always leave a negative comment (or positive comment) when it is deserved. The band ones are always left after I have exhausted all avenues of having the problem corrected. The comment is always factual and without emotion. This way it is left with a clear conscience, knowing that I did everything I could to correct this situation.
I've accumulated a 2000+ feedback rating. I've been dinged with 7 negatives. All undeserving by immature and unreasonable users. Most are retaliatory comments by newbie non-payers. The others by individuals who were looking to take advantage, extortive or abusive. A quick review of most of these offender's feedback records usually depicts a pattern of poor bahavior. Sound familiar?
I'm willing to take a bullet for my fellow eBay sellers by identifying irresponsible eBay users. It is the right thing to do and helps in insuring that other sellers stay away from these bad folks.
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loosecannon
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posted on April 4, 2001 08:10:52 AM new
Well said computerboy, but no need to waste your breath on dubyasdaman. His/her views are written in stone and he/she doesn't see it "our" way.
Yes, you've been dinged with 7 and I have 2 myself. Hasn't hurt me a bit and I would guess it hasn't hurt you either.
Dubyasdaman believes even one retaliatory neg would blemish his/her snow white record so badly that it would be pointless to go on. LMAO
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 4, 2001 08:24:52 AM new
Dubyasdaman believes even one retaliatory neg would blemish his/her snow white record so badly that it would be pointless to go on. LMAO
I don't think this at all. What I DO think is that it make no sense to take a retaliatory neg when MY neg left for the bidder does zero harm to the bidder.
You're right loosecannon. We see this issue very differently and you will never change my mind about about it or me yours. But we can each give our own views on it at each opportunity. I look forward to doing just that and I hope you will too. God, I LOVE this country!
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