posted on April 6, 2001 09:04:34 PM
Okay, can someone please tell me what is wrong with book club editions?
I have been a member of a book club, off and on, for the last 19 years. I see nothing wrong with the books.
I have also bought books from bookstores. I can't tell a difference. It is the same book regardless of where you buy it.
Is this a 'collector' thing, or what?
I just ran across an auction for a book I was searching for. Although, I did not bid on the book, they had in their description 'this is not of those "book club" editions.'
I have seen this so many times on the boards here. Can someone please explain to me
what is wrong with a book bought from a book club?
posted on April 6, 2001 09:21:39 PM
jwoodcrafts: Serious book collectors will almost never touch a BC edition, unless it is extreamly rare: ie; signed by a well written author, a somehow first edition that was published by a BC, or something of the sort. Most collectors want the very first editions, or first American/British/whatever edition. Also remember that dust jackets were in common use after 1910, so that is another thing to keep in mind. Here's a compairson: I have a first edition of "The Three Jamses" by C. Hartley Grattan, published in 1932 with a dj. It's value average on the net (I use ABE normally) is about $40-$50, while the '62 reprint is $8-$12, and that isn't even including any bookclub. I will but bc's for general reading and researching, though. It's just that the collecting masses do not normally collect them.
I hope this helps you out.
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
posted on April 6, 2001 09:43:56 PM
See Identifying Bookclubs
http://www.olg.com/books/bookclub.htm
EXCERPT:
Book Club (BC) editions are not first editions and generally have little collectable value. New collectors are often trapped thinking that they have a first edition when they really have a BC copy. Books clubs copies often appear to be first edition books but are often worthless. Beware if your book does not have a price on the dust jacket. That is the first sign that close inspection is needed. Book club editions often have a depression on the bottom of the right-hand corner of the back cover. It could be a circle, dot, square, maple leaf, or similar mark. Watch out for the BOMC acronym that stands for Book of the Month Club. You'll often find it on the flaps of book club dust jackets.
posted on April 6, 2001 10:56:09 PM
Hi jwoodcrafts
I buy (not many) books and I'll share my opinion. I only buy a certain author because I love his style of writing, humor and subject matter. I am by no means a collector.
Earlier this year I bought one of his books off eBay. He is not a popular author, although, all of his books have been reprinted a few times. The book sold cheap, about $4.
I received the book and it was a book club copy. I was hot! I hate copies from a book club. They are made cheaply and most commonly the pages are not even cut flush as a means to save money. The pages usually begin to yellow early.
I gave the book to Goodwill and bought another copy (same price) off eBay. I did e-mail the seller and told her that I was not happy with the book since she never mentioned in her description that it was from a book club.
I didn't ask for my money back, figuring it was my fault for not asking. Although, I shouldn't have had to, it was her responsibility to list it in her description.
I suggested that whenever she sells another book from a book club to please do the buyer and favor and mention that it is from a book club. She acted like she could care less.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:08:35 PM
All standard DESCRIPTION DEFINITIONS state:
EX-LIBRARY: Must always be designated as such no matter what the condition of the book.
BOOK CLUB: Must always be noted as such no matter what the condition of the book.
REMAINDER: Must always be noted as such no matter what the condition of the book.
It's a material fact that, if not disclosed, renders the sale void. The seller usually does not disclose it because they know it would hinder the sale. In that case, I would ask for a refund including shipping both ways.
You should not have to email every seller to ask, "Are you sure this isn't a book club? ... You didn't note if it was an ex-library book ... Is it a remainder?"
The onus is on the seller to disclose ALL bibliographic information about the book(s) they are selling.
posted on April 7, 2001 05:36:38 AM
Remainder books are books that have been sold under the regular retail price. They maybe what is left (the remainder) when the book is no longer being ordered from the company, so the company sells out a bunch under wholesale. They usually can be identified by a mark usually to the bottom that looks like a slash with a marker.
posted on April 7, 2001 06:19:53 AM
Not all "remainders" are marked, some manage to go through the discount process unscathed (and that's great). BUT when they are marked, then it greatly reduces their value (to a collector) and those marks should always be noted.
posted on April 7, 2001 06:53:26 AM
Just a side note - it is not just book club editions where the pages are not cut flush - some regular editions are also like that.
posted on April 7, 2001 07:15:34 AM
Okay thanks. This clears up a lot for me. I know that there is no difference in the content of the book.
It is just a collectors thing. They only want 1st editions. Personally, I have always been considered a bookworm, aka by friends as a 'collector', but I guess I only 'collect' a book for a general reading and enjoyment factor, not as a '1st edition collector'
I guess I wouldn't be considered a 'serious' collector because of this, but still....most people know me as a "you better not touch my books!" sort of person.
posted on April 7, 2001 07:22:54 AM
jwoodcrafts--I used to buy from BOMC -- mostly from their History division. For the most part, one only saves $5-10 buying a bookclub vs. the regular edition. But the difference in "investment" is huge -- bookclubs will NEVER have a resale value of any significance (perhaps 1/4 of original purchase price) whereas on a first printing will usually sustain it's value (and in many cases achieve a much higher value).
So if I'm going to buy 100 books a year and pay $20-30 each anyway, I'd rather put my money where it might count (on the first printings of the regular editions).
posted on April 7, 2001 11:42:18 AM
Before I was educated on this, I innocently sold a BCE to someone. It was a popular author. I did not characterize it as a first edition or anything, just hardcover. She wanted a refund because it was BCE - and therefore didn't match the others in her collection. This is because BCE copies are usually [always?] SMALLER than the trade hardcover. Stop by a used book store that deals in hardcover fiction and you will see it at a glance.
From time to time a BCE edition will sell just find, I suppose if the title is hard to come by or the buyer simply wants to read the story, irregardless of collectible value.
posted on April 7, 2001 02:33:07 PM
There are a lot of people out there who are not educated about book collecting. To them, a book is a book is a book. If I were a serious collector I would DEFINITELY ASK if it is important to you that you not get a book club edition or an ex library book. MOST PEOPLE don't see anything wrong with book club editions- same as jwoodscrafts didn't, same as I didn't when I started selling on Ebay, same as Keziak didn't, same as probably that seller brie49 dealt with. They are not "out to get you". They just never had anyone explain the difference.
If it is important to you, ASK, unless you know for sure that you are dealing with a professional bookseller. It seems to me that the "let the buyer beware" cliche is fully applicable here.
posted on April 7, 2001 02:56:19 PM
A couple of thoughts here, both as a "serious" book collector and a voracious reader.
I think a refund would most certainly be required if a BCE was not identified as such AND the book was sold in a "collectible" category, or otherwise described in a manner that indicated such.
However, if it's a book in a general category, merely being sold as a used book, with a starting bid of a buck or two, screw 'em. I alway state if any book is a club edition, but occasionally, if I'm just uploading a pile of general, and cheap, fiction, one might slip through without a note. If someone buys it for $2, they have no cause for later crying that they didn't get some rare collectible.
posted on April 7, 2001 03:11:40 PM
Just a few thoughts on this topic:
1. Not all BCE’s are worthless. In some cases the BCE is the only edition. I have a list of examples if anyone’s interested.
2. The vast majority of books in existence are first editions because the vast majority of books never sell enough copies to warrant a second. Therefore, first editions do not necessarily sustain their value. Many of them are, ahem, dogs.
3. Keziak is right that many BCE’s are smaller than trade editions, but some are virtually indistinguishable. In some cases the only indication is on the dust jacket. In some cases you have to call in a divine seer.
4. A short vocabulary lesson: Someone who simply reads books voraciously–i.e., a bookworm–is a bibliophage (and probably doesn’t care whether a book is a BCE or not), whereas someone who loves books AS books (and cares mightily whether a book is a BCE or not) is a bibliophile.
5. If the status (BCE, ex-lib, etc.) of a book isn’t disclosed in an auction, and the buyer objects, what seller with any business sense would do anything but offer a full refund?
posted on April 7, 2001 03:33:35 PM
vieux- I understand where you're coming from and I agree with your logic. However:
"If someone buys it for $2, they have no cause for later crying that they didn't get some rare collectible",
The way I do things, if they DID have the nerve to "cry" later I would still refund their money. My return policy is such that a customer can return anything for any reason.
bibliophile- thanks for that informative post. A lot of what you wrote is new info to me. I would love to have the list of BCE's that are the only edition- is there a URL you can post?
p.s. I definitely fit more into the "bibliophage" category myself. LOL!
posted on April 7, 2001 03:39:03 PM
I almost forgot: keziak, I found TWO of your cichlid books at a used bookstore today (several bucks each). If I don't get at least $30 apiece for them, I'm coming to you for presentation advice <g>.
posted on April 7, 2001 04:29:24 PM
bibliophile - excuse me for drooling! Mine got purchased by an Australian who was happy to pay for the Global Priority envelope. Long may he and his fish live. :- )
posted on April 7, 2001 06:49:18 PM
This has been a very informative thread for me. I have always wondered why people would ask if it was or was not a BCE...thanks to all of you I now understand.
However....it won't stop this "bookworm" who also fits into the "bibliophage" catagory (and who can't afford First Editions!) from buying the book just for the enjoyment of reading it!
At least I know the difference now. If I ever sell any more books, which I have in the past with no problems so far, I will be sure to make note of all this and try to find out just "what kind" of book it is!
posted on April 7, 2001 09:01:48 PM
A good seller will refund monies if an item has been misdescribed. When a seller does not disclose that a book is a BCE or ex-library or remainder, then they are misdescribing by omission. In those cases, I believe the buyer is entitled to a refund of all their costs. I guess it all comes down to one's sense of ethics and whether or not one's goal is selling is to be honest about what it is they are selling.
Why should every buyer out there have to email every seller to ask if what they have stated in their descriptions is true? I have asked sellers specific questions, being given specific answers ("yes, it is a first printing" ) and I have still received a book that was a 9th edition.
There is nothing wrong with selling or buying book clubs and ex-libraries, but those factors should be disclosed to the buyer.
[ edited by engelskdansk on Apr 7, 2001 09:54 PM ]
posted on April 8, 2001 01:22:31 AM
engelskdansk- I do not disagree with you, but you are assuming that ALL sellers are educated about these things, and that is an untrue assumption. I think about 95% of the people out there (give or take?) would be well excluded from the "bibliophile" category. Unless you know the seller you are dealing with is an experienced & professional bookseller, it is simply unwise to assume that they have the same knowledge of books that an experienced collector would.
If you were buying a vintage Francie doll and you couldn't tell from the photos if she had all her eyelashes, you would ask the seller. If you were buying a lace tablecloth and you couldn't tell from the photos if it had any stains, you would ask the seller. WHY wouldn't you ask a seller if the edition was a BCE if that was important to you? It might be a pain, but it's much less of a pain than trying to hassle with a refund would be if you didn't ask to start with and ended up being disappointed.
posted on April 8, 2001 02:47:06 AM
How true,CAgrrl! I wonder how many BCE's I've sold on ebay the last 3 years! It's only the past year that I've learned to put: retail price,price clipped, or no price on jacket.
I've never had a complaint and would gladly refund if I did. But then I'm mostly a bibliophage to bibliophage seller anyway!
And I had a book on books that are collectible and it told me nothing compared to what I've learned on these boards or from links that bibliophiles have given here. I think I can finally accurately describe and grade a book. Now, if I could just find more that are truly collectible..........
