rdecker99
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posted on April 28, 2001 08:07:44 AM new
Hey all after the long fiasco we had the other day about my mom and her curtains thought you might like an updtate?? I will try to be brief! A Lawyer friend avised us that many local Judges will consider the internet as the point of origin for the sale that takes place !! This is good good news for those of us who have been burned on Ebay wit h a seller who will not return or send the goods!!! mean you can file in yourm own back yard now and do not have to travel to the location of the seller to file a claim!!!! think about it!! youwill have to check with your local Judge to verify their oppinion on the matter but it looks like we have a few progressive thinking Judges in our area!! By the way the Curtain money refund she said she was going to send overnight on the 27th has not arrived yet?? Thanks Randy
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gs4
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posted on April 28, 2001 10:03:24 AM new
Small claims court is your best bet. They have to show up or lose the case by default. You have no refund as she no longer has the money. Best of luck.
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skip555
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posted on April 28, 2001 10:16:45 AM new
Getting a judgment in small claims court is one thing Collecting the judgement something else.
I know the laws vary by states but here in fla it can be very diffcult to collect and of course you are out the court costs
Having read your other posts on this I would probably be inclined to try for the judgment just on prinipal.
Good Luck
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sulyn1950
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posted on April 28, 2001 10:22:34 AM new
Isn't this the 28th about 10:10PST???? It's also a weekend!
I also know from personal experience that filing in small claims court may or may not get you any money. What it gets a a ruling that says the person does indeed owe you and they need to pay you, but if they don't????? Don't hold your breath! Nobody is going to the person and drag the money out of their wallet and bring it back to you! Of course, you do have the satisfaction of knowing you were right and you were wronged 'cause the judge said so! 
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 28, 2001 11:48:11 AM new
I have used small claims court a few times with decent overall results. It is true that a judgement in your favor doesn't automatically translate into money received. But if your debtor has decent credit, he/she will often settle the issue upon receipt of the summons to avoid having a judgement slapped on to his/her credit report. A judgement is a VERY BAD thing to have on a credit report, and it will stay on there for 7 years even if the judgement is eventually satisfied. Of course if their credit is already in the crapper, you're probably out of luck whether you sue or not.
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sadie999
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posted on April 28, 2001 04:06:06 PM new
Just wanted to post because this reminded me of something I read about many years ago.
A man was unsuccessful in getting his security deposit back from his landlord (how unusual!). He filed in small claims court and won. No money.
Apparently this man was like a dog with a bone on this one. He kept at this for years until eventually he owned the building! I don't remember the particulars, but it was real.
Good luck to the original poster.
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rdecker99
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posted on April 28, 2001 04:50:13 PM new
Thanks again all! I am not sure any one here see's the significance of this post?? Small Claims rules are set up so that the claim is to be filed in the area of jurisiction....this being the area where the item was bought!! This rule would cause My Mom to drive to Virginia from Upstate NY... Not worth the effort right?? well with some Judges now they are allowing cases to be filed in your own city or town! because the internet reached into your home and the Point of origin for a sale is your Home!!! this is good news for burned buyers on Ebay or any computer auction service !! it is up to each individual Judge but it is worth making the argument... most will file the papers for you if you are persuasive!! Thought you Ebayers and Yahooers and Etc. would find this interesting and in My case there are more than one person that was burned by this seller We had 96 messages about it the other day until they locked it out?? so Thanks again and keep buying!! Randy
[ edited by rdecker99 on Apr 28, 2001 04:56 PM ]
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skip555
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posted on April 28, 2001 05:20:50 PM new
Randy
The fact you can sue in your jurisdiction makes it eve
n harder to collect.
Small claims laws vary from state to state but lets say you do win. any collection effort would still have to be filed in there jurisdiction.
As to judgments affecting credit you and I would be concerned about it but you and I would not stick it to someone the way she has
I used to have a freind who was in the collection bussiness and he was telling me once how folks can make themselves judgement proff and spend their lives sticking it to peaple.
while having a judgement against her would be satisfiying to a extent all it does is says you are right and we already know that
So while you win in court you wind up with a judgement that you probably can't collect and now you are further out the court costs.
which of course will be part of your judgment that you can't collect !
I should add that my states laws favor the deadbeat's and dishonest.
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rdecker99
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posted on April 28, 2001 06:23:56 PM new
Thanks Skip This is quite depressing!! I thought that a Legal Judgement was a decree from the court system that a payment be made?? and I have been in contact with both District Attorney's offices in this matter ?? It has been stated by them both that a small claims settlement will give them the authority to take action! and if the other people who haver been burned by this seller follow suit it get's better and better?? Her gated community will become quite aware of her and her activities with just a few inconvienent stops by the Local sherrif's dept. Skip Please do not continue to let a seller know there are ways to not pay and get away with it?? although I do appreciate your opinion in this matter !!
[ edited by rdecker99 on Apr 28, 2001 06:26 PM ]
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reamond
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posted on April 28, 2001 07:04:45 PM new
Randy is right - winning a judgement and collecting are 2 different things. Small Claims is even harder if not impossible to collect, and unrecognized in other juris dictions.
I don't think Small Claims judgements are entered anywhere "on the books", execept the Small Claims court records. I don't think credit reporting agencies record them either.
Small Claims judgements are not entitled to state intervention for collection either, such as using law enforcement to retrieve assets under force for settlement. In fact, unless the losing party is willing to pony up, the judgement is worthless and unenforceable using normal tactics.
Two things every lawyer learns, first, don't sue entities that do not have any assets to pay judgements, and second, if someone has to go to jail, make sure it is your client and not you.
There is actually an industry developed around finding assets of defendants or prospective defendants.
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MrsSantaClaus
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posted on April 28, 2001 07:11:03 PM new
I won a $1500 claim in 1991 - still haven't collected. Seems the guys has to take care of his other fines, etc first.
It is very difficult to collect, even if you do win.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 28, 2001 07:19:17 PM new
I don't think Small Claims judgements are entered anywhere "on the books", execept the Small Claims court records. I don't think credit reporting agencies record them either.
ANY court judgement goes on the debtor's credit record if it is reported by the plaintiff to the credit bureaus.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Apr 28, 2001 07:20 PM ]
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rdecker99
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posted on April 28, 2001 07:19:33 PM new
Well I can say the people in this law suit have the money...sounds like a nice community she lives in, Gated, and must be quite expensive?? on the other hand I have to thank you all for telling prospective Thiefs we all should be worried about.... that even this avenue does not work!! Federal Mail fraud charges have be started and a few other avenues have been looked at but if we follow this course first then the other suggestions we have will be able to work ! What usually is the problem is the DA's offices not working together! no so in this case ?? Thjey know each other and our local Da was a personal friend of My Dad's before he passed and would love to help my MOM ?? we will see, and I will let you all know if this works. One thing is clear she will get Papers served by the authorities in her county and this will be done at her home and I am sure she will, at the very least, be quite embarassed by this ?? Thanks again Some of these messages seem to be encouraging to the crooks and not the rest of us?? The Legal Sysytm does not want the people taking these matters into their own hands right?? they do need to have something that works or who knows?? will make for a crazy world? the internet will make an awfull lot of angry customers if all you say is true!! I need a little optimism here I have enough pessimism to offer myself in this matter I am pursuing this with my Mom's blessings and encouragement, she has had so many great Ebay customers as have I , it is people like this that will end it all for us if it continues. Word Of Mouth will keep Buyers away from the Internet faster than you may think?? I am long again sorry
[ edited by rdecker99 on Apr 28, 2001 07:25 PM ]
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reamond
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posted on April 28, 2001 08:08:39 PM new
The credit bureaus decide what to put on record and what not.
"Any court" judgement is not subject to a credit bureau entry, Small Claims in one, as well as many other administrative courts that can give money judgements.
I don't believe just anyone can make a report to a credit bureau either, these are private record keeping companies.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 28, 2001 08:40:13 PM new
The credit bureaus decide what to put on record and what not.
Wrong once again. The credit bureaus are indeed private companies. But they are regulated and must operate under federal law as set forth in the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Credit bureaus are REQUIRED BY LAW to file ANY legitimate debt if reported by a creditor, even if that creditor isn't a regular customer of the credit bureau. The creditor will have to pay a fee to the credit bureau but the credit bureau cannot refuse to file the debt or judgement. They have no say whatsoever in the matter. Once the debt or judgement is reported, the credit bureau CANNOT remove it from the credit file unless the debtor disputes the entry and/or the creditor either fails to verify the debt or judgement or agrees that the entry is in error.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Apr 28, 2001 08:41 PM ]
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greatlakes
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posted on April 29, 2001 11:35:55 AM new
Have you filed a fraud claim with ebay? If not you need to RIGHT AWAY!  There is a time limit for filing claims. If you can prove your case your mother should get her money back (minus a $25 deductable) and the seller will be suspended.
Here are some links
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/ins-guide.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/f-insurance.html
I saw the other post about this problem. It seems there was some debate about the ID of the person you were dealing with and perhaps their current AW ID was a former ebay ID. Is there any reason why you can't contact the people who left complaints and verify if this is the same person?
[ edited by greatlakes on Apr 29, 2001 11:36 AM ]
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gravid
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posted on April 29, 2001 12:02:40 PM new
I wonder if MAD collection agency would take a small claims judgement to collect?
Might contact them at www.madagency.com
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rdecker99
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posted on April 29, 2001 12:31:03 PM new
Thanks Greatlakes Yes all the forms have been filled out?? and the Ebay solution was to suspend her for about a week?? Believe me Ebay does not want problems talked about nor any lack of ability to respond to people like this?? so we have done what we can and I have gotten so many great suggestions Emailed to me I think it will take some time but we will get the money back in the end Bet she does not use he same user name again when she comes back??
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rdecker99
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posted on April 29, 2001 12:38:02 PM new
Greatlakes I forgot to mention We have contacted all the old bidders and sellers who she burned and this is great for the federal Mail Fraud charges proff of more than one event of fraudulent use of the mail to recieve moneies will result in a federal charge?? I do not know what this will be even my :Lawyer friend is not sure what the Fed's will do but it can be bad?? I think this solution may be a little extreme even with the animosity I have for this person!!??
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seyms
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posted on April 29, 2001 01:08:58 PM new
Regarding the issue of winning if the other side doesn't show up. This is not automatic given. The judge will "hear the evidence" and can and will dismiss the case although the other side may not appear.
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SaraAW
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posted on April 29, 2001 03:05:08 PM new
overwelmed,
Posting private information about an individual is a violation of our Community Guidelines, therefore your last post has been deleted.
Continuing to post in this vein will put your posting privileges in jeopardy.
Thank you,
Sara
[email protected]
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overwelmed
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posted on April 29, 2001 03:09:04 PM new
Fact 1 : Customers orders something other than whats listed I accomodated her.
Fact 2 : Customer mails Mo 3 weeks later
and writes inccorect address info
Fact 3 : item ships
Fact 4 : Item returned
Fact 5 son calls told him would reship
Fact 6 bidder cancels order
Fact 7: agree to refund and inform customer I have to pay restock fee .
Customer then claims fraud , threats made on my machine to my family meanwhile im in hospital . Told customer as soon as I recived refund he would. Several accusations and email bombs from sex sites . Unpulished my number and situation esculated from their .
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overwelmed
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posted on April 29, 2001 03:12:19 PM new
due to locked post info
leaving out private info
refund sent out 26 th to bidder reg. mail due to the fact on bedrest and cannot leave home.
Info provided her is false contact me in a mature manner via email to discuss this further.
Moderator sorry emaotions high . Can the post be re-instated omitting personal info/
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SaraAW
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posted on April 29, 2001 03:14:02 PM new
overwelmed,
Moderation is to be discussed via email only at: [email protected]
Since this is a private matter between you and another poster, I suggest you take it to email.
Thank you,
Sara
[email protected]
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sonsie
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posted on April 29, 2001 09:54:18 PM new
I've sued (and won) in CA small claims court. It's true that collection isn't easy, but it can be done. You just need to be persistent.
With a judgment, you can have a person's wages garnished, or you can attach his bank account (only for the amount in question, or course). You can even have his car repossessed! There are probably 50 legitimate and legal methods of collecting a small claims debt, though I'm sure these vary by state. I have even filed a judgment with the county clerk and gotten my money, plus interest, five years later when a piece of real estate sold.
I wouldn't recommend bothering with this sort of effort unless the financial reward is worth it. But if it is really important to you, it can be done.
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skip555
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posted on May 1, 2001 05:30:22 AM new
the laws vary from state to state my state does not allow wages to be garnished or bank account to be touched.
you can lein real estate but it has to be in the name of the party you are sueing some folks make themselves judgment proff by having nothing in their name...therfore nothing you can attach.
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eventer
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posted on May 1, 2001 07:08:19 AM new
It's true that small claims judgements don't automatically mean $$$ in your pocket. However, you need to check & see what your state's procedures are for collecting.
We won a small claims case and, of course, the person didn't pay. In our state, we are allowed to file a lien against the person for small claims judgements. We then filed a lien against his business equipment & when the sheriff came to place the lien on the equipment, the guy broke land speed records getting to the courthouse to pay off the lien.
AND in addition to having to pay the judgement AND our small claims court costs, he had to pay for our costs to file the lien & get it served. If he'd just written the check to begin with, he'd saved himself a couple hundred dollars. DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, pride CAN cost!
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SmittyAW
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posted on May 1, 2001 08:12:45 AM new
overwelmed..
I have suspended your posting privileges because it is a violation of the Community Guidelines to use more than one posting ID. You still have the id fancymama available to use if you wish.
If you create any new posting IDs, all posting privileges will be suspended.
Smitty
[email protected]
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fraidykat
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posted on May 1, 2001 02:28:35 PM new
In Florida the cost of filing a small claims action is approx. $130.00. Then a subpoena is issued that must be served (can be mailed to an out of state sheriff for service...charge varies per locality approx $25), time to attend pretrial conference, time to attend final hearing, you win but need to record the final judgment in the public records for it to be enforceable and for it to show up as a lien against the debtor on a credit report, or when and if they sell their house, etc.($6 first page, $4 thereafter), etc., etc. IMO - not worth it for a $90 transaction. I'd pursue all other avenues first!
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headhunter265
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posted on May 1, 2001 05:16:44 PM new
hey rdecker99- She says money sent on the 26th now. Did you get it yet? This is better than the soaps. Maybe they could use this stuff when the writers go on strike. LOL Truth is stranger than fiction.
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