posted on May 3, 2001 06:39:58 AM
I recently had to initiate the return of an eBay purchase because the jewelry was identified in the listing as brass when in fact it was goldtone-coated plastic. This was a relatively high-end purchase in excess of $60.00.
I believe this was an innocent mistake on the part of the seller - I think she made a hasty assessment of the item without really examining it, and we all have lapses like that on occasion. But I buy a lot of vintage brass jewelry and was able to tell the minute I opened the box that it was plastic - a fact that could not be discerned in the listing's photo. (What I saw when I used my jeweler's loupe only confirmed that for me: flecks of gold paint chipping off grey plastic.)
The seller has well over 1,000 positive feedbacks, 5 neutrals (for "selling junk," ahem) and no negs. She was apologetic about her mistake and said she'd return my purchase price less postage and handling charges.
I am so grateful that this situation has been resolved in a civil manner that I agreed to this, but now I have a question for the sellers out there:
When the error is yours, do you or don't you refund postage charges? If I were a seller and made a mistake such as the one cited above I would feel obligated to return the postage as well.
My recent experience is going to leave me empty-handed through no fault of my own but will cost me $11.00 for postage/insurance - $5.50 to send it to me and $5.50 for me to return the item. This doesn't seem quite right, but I'm "educateable" and will defer to the wisdom of your standards and procedures.
If I made a mistake, yes. But I have been listing the exact same items (I designed and produce them all) for almost 2 years. My descriptions are 100% accurate (after a few initial stumbles). I don't say that out of arrogance (I hope it doesn't come across that way).
posted on May 3, 2001 07:18:21 AM
If I make a mistake - God forbid - without a doubt, I'd refund shipping charges both ways!
Afterall, it's not the buyers fault that I made a mistake, why would I penalize them for my mistake?
I'd write the seller back and say wait a minute, I was stunned that I received an item that was not as described and was not thinking correctly when I corresponded with you before. Why do I have to pay any shipping charges when this was obviously your mistake because you did not closely check the item and listed it incorrectly?
posted on May 3, 2001 07:24:06 AM
I depends somewhat on how prominate the fact that it was brass, if it was very prominate then I would say the seller should refund the S/H you paid them.
But under no cicumstances should the seller refund your postage to return the item. Would you consider asking Wal-Mart to pay for your gas to return a defective item purchased there? No way. I can't believe that there are sellers recomending that! It would be entirel unprofessional to do so.
I don't say that out of arrogance (I hope it doesn't come across that way).
No problem- I understand. I only asked because I would wonder about any seller who would not make good their own mistake. The original poster asked for opinions regarding refunds when the seller misrepresented an item. I think I may have derailed the thread somewhat when I indicated what I would do if I were to accept a return for another reason- sorry.
posted on May 3, 2001 07:52:03 AM
There is NO WAY you should have to pay shipping, either way! It may have been an honet mistake, BUT, it was the SELLERS mistake. No doubt they should pay.
As for me. If I mess up I pay. And one time the customer just wasn't happy, admitted they hadn't read all the description, and already left me my first and only neutral. And I STILL refunded their money, with shipping, and let them keep the item!
posted on May 3, 2001 08:01:10 AM
Out of 75 purchases, I have had 3 in which the item was either stained (clothing) or not as stated in the listing.
I immediately notified each seller in a polite email, simply stating the fact. In each case, the entire amount including shipping was refunded without question. None of the three even asked for the item back (thse were all under $20).
Even though you paid $60, is the item going to be able to sold for more than a couple of dollars if the seller relists it as gold-plated plastic?
posted on May 3, 2001 08:02:57 AM
I see quite a few listings where the seller states they will accept returns if the item is misrepresented, but will deduct shipping and eBay fees from the refund. Maybe that's to discourage frivolous returns, as I can't imagine anyone would have the gall to ask a buyer to pay for their mistake.
posted on May 3, 2001 08:26:20 AM
since there's no question that the seller made a mistake and that you wouldn't have bid on it had she not, she should refund you everything. if it were i, upon learning the item was pretty much worthless, i'd refund you and tell you to keep it.
she sounds pretty reasonable thus far, and you're very reasonable and understanding. maybe she was in a hurry and didn't think it out when she replied? let's hope so! i think a polite note thanking her for offering the refund, and saying you feel that since she made an honest error that resulted in your bidding on something you wouldn't have done otherwise, you think it's only fair you shouldn't be out anything.
I agree with the group...she should refund ALL your outlay.
I have to admit, when I read your post I was stunned at this "innocent mistake." Given the weight difference...and the complete difference in "feel" between brass and plastic jewelry...I don't see how she could have made such a drastic screwup.
Unless she's not a jewelry dealer? Or an antiques and collectibles dealer?
I don't know how she made this mistake, either, but I'm trying to be fair to the seller until given just cause to feel otherwise. In her auction write-up she stated that the jewelry was made of brass but was "surprisingly light weight." I didn't read anything into that - light weight is a relative term, and hollow brass can be lighter than a more substantial piece. But these were REALLY light weight --- they practically flew across the room when I pulled them out of the mailer.
I've looked at some of her other auctions and it appears that almost all of her auctions are for contemporary jewelry, with a few vintage pieces thrown in. I think (I hope) that the mistake came because she wasn't well-versed about anything other than her sorta' canned modern-era stuff like stud earrings. I think she was uninformed more than anything else, for you're right, there is a distinct difference in the "feel" between brass and plastic jewelry.
Thanks to everyone for your advice; it's bolstered my courage to approach her, ever-so-diplomatically, about refunding my postage along with the purchase price.
posted on May 3, 2001 10:45:16 AM
Good luck... I'm thinking you'll be successful. She must be fairly flexible and agreeable, with over 1,000 feedbacks...and no negs.
posted on May 4, 2001 06:29:06 AM
Thanks, everyone, for your good advice. I've just e-mailed the seller with my request for a complete refund; I'll let you know what happens.
By the way, tomwiii, I must tell you that I laughed at your reference to this item having come from a gumball machine. I tried in this post to refrain from making an inappropriate judgment about the seller or the item, but now that you've said it, I must agree: it did look like it came out of a gumball machine.
Proof that a picture is not worth a thousand words.
posted on May 4, 2001 07:00:15 AM
If it is OUR mistake we either make a complete refund, or in the instance of lower priced items, $20 and under, if we still have the right item, we just ship the correct item and let the buyer have the other item free.
IF the mistake is the BUYERS, we don't refund shipping, and often don't take the item back at all, and if it is sent back without our permission, we would either refund only the purchase price minus a restocking fee.
posted on May 4, 2001 07:58:56 AM
If it's my mistake, it is a full refund without question.
If it is the buyer's mistake, it depends on the nature of the error and the way the customer is behaving. If it was an accidental error and the buyer is a nice person, I'll often offer to fix the problem at my expense.
posted on May 22, 2001 11:53:01 AM
Here it is, three weeks after I mailed the item back to the seller on May 3rd (priority mail with delivery confirmation), and three weeks after I e-mailed her about refunding both the purchase price and the mailing costs.
I've been met with dead silence. I e-mailed her again on Friday, and asked (nicely) when I could expect my refund.
Dead silence.
I know she's still alive because she's got auctions ending all this week.
posted on May 22, 2001 01:03:36 PM
Thanks, Eventer; I've done it. Judging from the well thought out and logical posts you've made on AW in the past, I suspected you might be the one who would give me sound advice about this.
I'll wait a day or so to contact the seller by phone until I'm sure she has received (and read) the Contract Request notification from eBay.
I'm very frustrated; this auction ended on April 7, and now she's got the item and my money.
I hate to think that this may end with me leaving my first-ever negative feedback. But if it does, the seller has no one but herself to blame.
Comin' in late on this discussion, but if the mistake is mine and ALL mine -- I refund everything. I do not agree with the "WalMart" analogy. I would however, prefer the buyer return an item to me first-class to save shipping -- there's no reason why a cheap jewelry piece should cost that much to mail.
If the seller continues to ignore your e-mails, you can file a claim with eBay's Fraud program. They have automatic buyer's insurance with a $25 deductible so you could be eligible for reimbursement on the remainder. But pressure from eBay usually gets the seller moving.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:24:35 PM
I as a seller would refund all charges and cover shipping both ways.
Now, recently I purchased an item that had an incorrect listing title and category placement. The only thing the seller offered me was a $5.00 credit for future purchases! Now I need to leave the feedback they deserve!!
posted on May 23, 2001 06:09:24 AM
Well...you'll never guess. My long-silent seller e-mailed me last night. I assume this is just coincident to the fact that I pulled her contact information...! (Thanks again, Eventer!)
It amuses me that the reason she gave for her silence was one that I've often seen being viewed with no small amount of skepticism by sellers on AW threads --- when it comes from a buyer. Yes, it's true: she had a death in the family! Yet, as has been true with NPBs who continue to bid during family tragedies, she has, despite her grief, been able to continue listing auctions and posting FB.
However, I don't think I'm out of the woods yet. Her e-mail gave me every indication that she's a ditz --- here's a portion of it: "I purchased a money order, I think last Monday which was for $XX.XX, I did not find the stub where I thought it should be to check the date for sure, but I will let you know by tomorrow morning what I find."
Yes? Well? And?!? Please note that she doesn't say she mailed the money order to me. It sounds like she did, but...where is it?!?
I'm still being polite in my responses to her, but it's getting harder and harder. I keep telling myself that my goal is to get back my money --- not to be counterproductive by showing her how sarcastic and snippy I am capable of being!
posted on May 23, 2001 06:21:19 AM
If I make a mistake in my description, I refund the full amount, including shipping.
Sounds like this seller is either a real ditz, or just pretending to be one to get out of refunding your money. I'd say you're being ripped off and she knew what she was doing from the beginning: trying to pass off a piece of junk as something with value.
posted on May 23, 2001 04:43:36 PM
wisegirl - I had a similar experience, and now have a retalitory FB to prove it. This sellers TOS said she would refund only if item(s) were mis-described. Her auction said "no holes, rips, tears or stains and in excellent condition". Guess what? They weren't. The 4 items had massived staining, lots of holes, three tears and were mildewed. I don't believe that meets anyones definition of "excellent". And she obviously had 'fixed' the pictures she had on her auctions as they were white. What I received looked like they had sat in a tea dye for sometime.
When I emailed she admitted to not having the time to check them out...said she was busy and had only looked at one (out of 4), but stated she didn't do refunds. Long story short, she decided she would refund my bid prices, but not the shipping (either way). I (nicely) tried to explain why I felt she should refund the shipping costs both ways ($14.10) and she refused.
So I left FB to the effect her description did not match the items....to which she left retalitory feedback that I had tried to extort money from her. EXTORT money from her by asking for reimbursement of shipping charges because of her mistake? But there it is.
Hope your seller is more reasonable than mine was.
Yikes - I hope, too, that my seller is more reasonable than yours was! I am constantly amazed at the inability of our fellow man to 'fess up when a mistake is made. Fortunately, my seller has admitted her error and has agreed to refund postage --- one way only, but hey, I'll take it.
There is no excuse for a seller to say she didn't have the time to check the items out.
BJGrolle -
I'm not a particularly positive thinker, but at this point I believe my seller is a ditz and not a crook. The few e-mails I've received from her don't reflect any underhandedness; in fact, she seems to be relatively unsophisticated. As someone said to me recently about the occupant of the highest office in the land, she "ain't the brightest light in the chandelier."
Something has happened to this seller recently; she's left as much FB as she's been given until the last month, and hasn't left any during that period. So it may well be true that she had a death in her family. And yet...she's had the time to list new auctions and mail the items, for she's received FB for listings ending during that period. She may just be in over her head, but I know that my sister, an eBay seller, honored her obligations promptly during our mother's illness and subsequent death in 1999. She realized that her personal situation was not something that should be of concern to her buyers. But some people can't function at all during a crisis and my seller may be one of them.
My seller got her first neg a few days ago for unresponsiveness and failure to send a refund. Her 5 neutrals have all been for misrepresentation of items. But then again...she has 1900+ positive FB, 1500+ from unique users.
So...this could go either way for me. I am keeping close track of how many days I have left in which to leave FB.
Stay tuned; as I said in my last posting, she said she'd get back in touch with me this morning. Time is marching on and thus far she hasn't; shall we place bets?!?
posted on May 24, 2001 09:58:21 AM
Wisegirl: Sorry for your misfortune with this seller. I would suggest the following e-mail to her (send it high priority and request a read receipt) and put a cc at the bottom to eBay Safe Harbor(even though you really are not sending them a copy). Since you feel she is "ditsy" she will most likely think you have actually alerted them......................"I am once again contacting you in reference to my purchase of your eBay item #___________, at the winning bid price of $______, that we discussed in our e-mails to each other on __________ (copy of that e-mail attached below). Due to the bracelet NOT being brass (as was stated in your auction #________, copy of your description below), it was agreed that I would return the bracelet and upon receipt, you would refund me my purchase price of $________. It has been ___ days since your receipt of this item, and I have not yet received my refund. Since you have been unresponsive at your end, I believe it is in my best interest to officially notify eBay about this incident, and leave you negative feedback. Since I would rather not take these actions, and prefer to settle this manner in a polite and friendly manner, I am requesting that I receive my refund on or before _________________, or I will take the appropriate above stated actions. I would also very much appreicate a response to this e-mail within 24 hours as to your forthcoming actions."...........This is just a suggestion, but I can only imagine you are pretty steamed at this point. If she is just not paying attention, perhaps an e-mail such as this, will WAKE HER UP!!! Good luck to you!!!!!!
(edited for typos - oops!!)
[ edited by creativethings on May 24, 2001 10:00 AM ]
I'm thinking you'll be successful. She must be fairly flexible and agreeable, with over 1,000 feedbacks...and no negs.