posted on May 8, 2001 10:41:31 AM new
We operate a large business and we have about 50 employees and they’re asking if they can bid on items on ebay. Just curious what your thoughts are, if my employees can bid on these items occasionally? What’s your thoughts on that? Is it ethical? Is it allowed? Are we going to have any problems? Should I institute a policy? Just curious what you all do. Thank you.
posted on May 8, 2001 10:46:44 AM new
Not a good idea.
Example -- companies that run sweepstakes prohibit their employees from being involved.
Frankly, I think your policy should clearly state that employees are not allowed to bid on any auctions you run -- you will certainly avoid the appearance of "impropriety".
posted on May 8, 2001 12:14:10 PM new
I think gs4 is right on the money. This can be interpreted as shill bidding. It may mean quite a few more bids, and not necessarily winning bids coming right from your area. I think that can be viewed as suspect. I believe there are reasons why employees can not partake in certain offerings of their employers. Ebay employees are allowed to bid, but they must identify themselves as such. Ebay does not own the merchandise, and I think that is fair. I know when I go to auctions, quite a few people get annoyed when the auction staff bids. Usually the auctioneer at the begiining of the auction makes the statement aong with the terms of their auction, that their employeesw are allowed to bid, because they do not own the merchandise. After a while you learn what they own, and what they don't.
Reenie
posted on May 8, 2001 12:26:42 PM new
You should NOT allow your employees bidding on your company's auctions. It would look way too much like shilling, and you would have a difficult time explaining the activity.
posted on May 8, 2001 12:29:18 PM new
Personally, I see no harm in it. When I listed a "widget" a local antique dealer who is also a dear friend, saw I had it listed and bid on it. She ended up winning it, I didn't have to pack the fragile item and she didn't have to pay shipping. We just agreed to meet at the mall where we both have booths and I gave it to her then. I see where no harm was done.
Of course, employees could be viewed as different, but they DON'T own the merchandise so I don't see HOW ebay could construe that as shill bidding. But, then again, some say I'm not the sharpest tack in the box.
posted on May 8, 2001 12:42:41 PM new
IMHO, it would depend on where/when the employee is bidding...If they are bidding from work at an [email protected], during work hours that's one thing...But if they are bidding on their time, from their personal home accounts, I really don't see anything wrong with it...When they are off your clock, their time is their own to do with what they please..Let's be real, there are lots of folks out there for whom shill bidding is a SOP, why should good, hardworkin' employees be denied bidding rights, because of that???.....
posted on May 8, 2001 12:59:20 PM new
Tell the employees to have spouses brothers or sisters bid on the items. That way at least there is an arms length (or at least partial) to the transaction.
Just A Thought
Joe B
posted on May 8, 2001 01:01:43 PM new
It is only a problem if eBay or other users know these people work for you. If they use their home PC there shouldn't be any problem. How will anyone know them as your employees?
posted on May 8, 2001 01:27:16 PM new
USPS auctions occasionally have bids with USPS email addys.
I don't think anything is implied.
I think if there are bidders who run up prices without winning and repeatedly bid without winning, then there will be trouble.
Of course my ebay motto "snipe to win" would be appropriate, too!
posted on May 8, 2001 02:51:33 PM newebayquestions,
How about posting photos of items you're planning on auctioning on your server? If you put a price on it of what you expect eBay to bring or your eBay reserve price, you could save the fees and the time it takes to launch the auction. Leave it up for a few days or a week, and then sell on eBay. It might be a nice "perk" for them to have first crack at the item.
Having said that, I think it would be improper for ON-SITE employees to bid on eBay if their eBay ID is based on your company's e-mail address. I DON'T think there's any impropriety in allowing employees to purchase on their own time if their eBay ID is from a regular ISP.
My idea of shilling is when a person bids on their OWN auctions to avoid losing money on low bids (and ends up keeping the item to auction another time). In your situation, ownership of the item would go from you to your employee. (USPS auctions are done from somewhere in the midwest, and I see no impropriety in someone from New York bidding on an auction that originates from the midwest, even if the e-mail address says USPS.)
OR..... contact Safe Harbor with your question and see what they say about it! That way, you'd have the "official" word so your employees can't get mad at YOU if you have to deny them the right to bid on your stuff.
posted on May 8, 2001 03:14:23 PM new
The reason that I say not to let your employees bid on your auctions is a matter of perception. Even If they bid from their homes, it's not a good idea.
Let's face it, people talk. All it will take is for someone to find out that they work for you and then the rumors will fly.
So ask yourself if its worth the fallout, or ebay shutting you down if someone reports you for shill bidding.
You bring up a valid point, and it's an even better reason for ebayquestions to contact Safe Harbor FIRST (and DEFINITELY save and print out any e-mails you get from them). That way, there will be ample proof that the seller was legit and got an official ruling from eBay before allowing the activity.
However, since ownership is actually being transferred from the seller to the buyer (instead of remaining with the seller when a shill takes place) and it's on an open venue, I personally see no impropriety unless there is a pattern of bid retractions, and perhaps ebayquestions could make that a stipulation when forming a company policy about employee eBaying. If there WERE shilling going on (i.e. an employee being asked to bid on something to save the company from taking a loss on the merchandise), that would get out a HECK of a lot faster than the fact that the company's employees were bidding on the items like a normal person!
JMO...
P.S. Company officers or owners and anyone who owns a significant amount of stock probably shouldn't bid on the company's auctions...but those people are more likely to know what is being auctioned in the first place, and can purchase before the auction.
posted on May 8, 2001 04:58:23 PM new
Employees and their families of companies with big $$$ contests and promotions are prohibited from playing but Auctions are something else.
At any B&M Auction house employees can and do bid for items they want. And in Families where there are items that more than one person may want the Auction is a way for family members to bid against each other for those items. I see nothing wrong in letting employees bid at Co. Auctions.
posted on May 8, 2001 05:17:06 PM newShill bidding is the deliberate placing of bids to artificially raise the price of an item and is not allowed. To avoid the appearance of being involved (in) this activity, family members and individuals living together, working together or sharing a computer, should not bid on each other's items. - eBay's Shill Bidding info page
That said, if your employees do not bid using your @dot.com email address (whatever it is) I would think it would be very unlikely that you would be caught.
I like mcbrunnhilde's suggestion that you put up a web page to give employees first crack at the items. Admittedly, more work than just letting them bid on eBay.
posted on May 9, 2001 04:04:49 AM new
Why don't you seperate all the items going up for auctions and let the employees have first crack and buy it from you directly. If you have been in the biz a while then I am sure you can find a fair price for them.
Why would you have your employees contributing to your ebay bill by you paying the listing and final value fees then have your employee walk down the hall to pay you for it???
It would also save you the effort of taking photos and creating adds for one of a kind items when one of your employees is interested in buying it.
I wouldn't send my co-workers and neighbors to my auctions I'd just let them look at everything and see if they want anything from my home.
And I am sure your employees want to see your business succeed. Some.........maybe without telling you might be tempted to play with bidding to get you a better ending price at the expense of the real bidders.
Its too open for borderline shadiness and it just doesn't have a good vibe.
posted on May 9, 2001 07:51:36 AM new
I would let the employees bid - but only from home computers, only on time off, and definately never from your .com email addresses! I would not let ownership bid, however. You pay employees for the time they spend with you - their time off it theirs to do with it as they wish.
I would, however, make copies of the checks when the items are paid for to prove that it is not shill bidding.
posted on May 9, 2001 12:40:50 PM new
I agree with the posts about offering the items to your employees first--before you list them for auction.
Here's what I would do. Make up a web page or whatever with a list and pictures and prices of what you're selling. Give the employees two weeks to make their decisions (that way if someone didn't have cash on hand at the moment and really wanted something they could possibly get it before the two weeks was up).
At the end of the two weeks, list whatever's left.
You'd be gaining several ways by doing this. Employees would love it and you'd be selling locally, to people you know. You wouldn't be running the risk of deadbeat bidders on at least part of the items, and you wouldn't be paying listing and Final Value Fees.
I remember a case a while back but of course never knew all the particulars, but a seller had a tenant living in their guest house. The tenant bid on the seller's auctions on eBay. Someone did a check and found a near-matching address so turned them in for shill bidding. The seller's account was suspended and it took quite a while to get the mess all straightened out. Now, of course, this is what I 'heard' and the actual details may vary, LOL.
posted on May 9, 2001 01:28:15 PM new
If you can afford to sell it on ebay for a certain price you can afford to sell it to your employess for that price to. After all they make a profit for you. Unless you are one of the stingy employers which I doubt you are.
If I were an employee and had to go to ebay to get a better deal then to the place I work I would remember that in my effort to help make the product. If it is a large retail product do a silent auction at your place of business once a month or something and give all profit after you costs to a non-profit.
posted on May 9, 2001 09:56:25 PM new
When an auctioneer or their staff want to buy an item up for auction there is a conflict of interest.
Will the goods get maximum effort in promotion if a person that is responsible for promoting has an interest in keeping the bid price depressed?
If 3rd party vendors supply the goods to you, then they will probably find out and possibly think that you or your employee's interests are opposed to theirs.
