posted on May 9, 2001 12:00:21 PM new
I found a reference to it on webcrawler, seems to be some type of anti discrimination act. I don't see how that could affect E-Bay?
posted on May 9, 2001 12:19:14 PM new
California's Unruh Act has to do with discrimination in housing selling and renting). It stopped the discriminating covenants. It also has to do with civil rights in regards to equal access to busineses
posted on May 9, 2001 12:27:09 PM new
Simply, if eBay followed the same reasoning they did for removing items associated with hate groups, they would have to disallow a vast number of items and change the way they conduct business under the Unruh Act.
The Unruh Act bars businesses from discriminating against people based on race, religion, ancestry, national origin, or a disability.
posted on May 9, 2001 12:57:54 PM new
So, your saying, if I and a buncha other folks "pressured" eBay into the banning of, say, Bibles (Just as an example), because we believe that the Bible is a discrimiatory relic and promotes the discrimination of Women, we would have a valid point under this act??
posted on May 9, 2001 01:23:10 PM new
Crystalline_Sliver...I doubt if you can use the Unruh Act as a basis to ban the bible because it discriminates against women.
The Unruh act is directed towards a persons access to a business. A business cannot ban Chinese patrons (ancestry/national origins), or Catholic patrons (religion), or African-Americans (race), or blind patrons (disability) from patronizing the business. It has nothing to do with what the business will sell or not sell (or in the case of ebay..allow to be listed or not be listed).
The Unruh act has been cited by lawyers in cases brought by woman against the Rotary club, atheists against the boyscouts, etc. The rational the lawyers use is that these organizations are a "business" and can't discriminate. The defense by these groups is that they are private organizations and have a right of "freedom of association".
Except possibly in the real estate listings, I can't see how the Unruh act would apply to ebay at all. Ebay doesn't ask our race, national origin, ancestry, religion or sex. Nor do they refuse the use of their services to any group based on that criteria. The Unruh Civil Rights Act is not being violated by ebay.
posted on May 9, 2001 01:36:34 PM new
I don't believe eBay provides equal access for people with disabilities, which is an apparent violation of the Unruh Act.
[ edited by ecom on May 9, 2001 01:37 PM ]
posted on May 9, 2001 01:42:59 PM new
Did I just pull up a possible future legal quamire for eBay to fight??
Cause, i've seen a few references on the net concerning my previous query could have merit. Along with Islamic Organizations "pressuring" eBay to remove anything dealing with Pokemon (Saudi Arabia made a religious Edict calling them "Anti-Islamic" ) and Xian Items. Or Ethic Organizations pressuring eBay to stop auctions that use racial Slurs.
I also noted this quote:
"Equal Censoring for Equal Rights."
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on May 9, 2001 02:23:39 PM new
I'll ask a Legal friend of mine...in California.
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on May 9, 2001 08:21:12 PM new
I have no idea about their office facilities, but they don't seem to offer any programs for the sight-impaired to gain access and participate in their auctions.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:04:29 AM new
I'm curious..does anyone know of any company that provides "equal access" to their online web sites? I don't know of any, and if not, then if ebay is guilty, so is every other single company.
I'll bet companies think the "burden of accomodation" is on the user, in terms of text-to-speech capability, large monitors, etc.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:15:44 AM new
Captainkirk...a business can be required to have a ramp for wheelchair access to the building but isn't required to provide the customer with the wheelchair. A business has to supply handicapped parking spaces but isn't required to provide the customer with a car.
If text to speech capable computers or large monitors provide access to the blind it would seem the customer would have to provide that himself.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:26:40 AM new
Amy -
I think you've hit on EXACTLY the question here...where is the "dividing line" of responsibilty?
Should, for example, all web sites be required to have a java application that, when a site is first loaded, will automatically go into "speech mode" if a button isn't clicked with a mouse? In other words, if the person is sighted, they click on "no" and the web site loads "normally", but otherwise it defaults to reading everything for people.
I'm just thinking that this boundary hasn't yet been explored, and wouldn't be surprised to see companies required to do more as government (and technology) gets more sophisticated.
PS - There is nothing, by the way, that really prevents a company from being required to provide wheelchairs, say at curb-side. Its all whatever is in the law...and the law hasn't caught up with web sites yet. Maybe they will be required to provide, free of charge, that text to speech software...who knows? the future will be interesting.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:45:28 AM new
"How many radio stations provide text versions of their broadcasts for those who are deaf"
Probably none.
But then again, radio isn't being hailed, in this day and age of consumer activism, as being "the most important technology ever" and similar claims on behalf of the internet. Radio was invented "too early" for that to happen...but it did happen, to some degree for TV, which is much more on par with the net in terms of perceived importance.
Given how integrated people foresee the net being in people's lives, it isn't that much of a stretch to see gov't regulations coming.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:47:39 AM new
Captainkirk...your right, there is nothing that prevents a company from being required to provide wheelchairs at the curb. But I was specifically referring to the Unruh act as it has been applied here in Calif.
The act has been law for quite a while now (I think it went into effect in the 60s). When it was applied to access for the handicapped many businesses fought it as putting an undue financial burden on them. I think that to some point their argument was agreed to which is why they are not required to provide the wheelchairs...it would be an undue financial burden that they shouldn't be required to endure.
It will be interesting to see how it is applied to the internet...but I bet the java script default would be to the "normal" and the handicapped would be the one who had to click the yes button for speech. But they would be the one to provide the computer that would accept speech. Although, it could be that in the future computers will be required to have that capability similar to how TVs are now capable of being switched to captioned or a foreign language (which I only found out my TV could do by accident when my husband inadvertantly switched the "other language" button on...could not figure out why Homer Simpson was talking in Spanish!)
posted on May 10, 2001 08:01:42 AM new
I think the right answer is "no one knows". Goverment is usually about 10 years behind in terms of regulating new technologies, so they are just about to start thinking about this "new fangled" internet dealy-bob!
I do notice that, so far, the line of "undue financial burden" has been shifting more and more towards the business and away from the consumer. I'm almost surprised that "large" businesses aren't required to provide wheelchairs, for example. Many larger retail stores already have them, presumably voluntarily.
posted on May 10, 2001 08:03:11 AM new
The federal government has come out with guidelines regarding the web and the Americans with Disabilities Act so that companies doing business with the government can be in compliance. I haven't compared eBay with the guidelines so I don't know for sure whether they comply or not, but the guidelines don't require the web site to provide speech capabilities. Mostly they have to be text friendly (e.g., can you navigate without images turned on) and eBay does work there. (Makes it hard to view the auctions but that's a different issue.) The idea behind being text friendly is that people with vision impairments can use their own speech software to use the web site.
posted on May 10, 2001 11:58:28 AM new
I have had three different "legally blind" auction winners in my 2 years selling on Ebay. I presume they provided the tools needed for them to access the site as certainly all computers aren't sold with those capabilities. I received exceedingly large print emails from all 3, and replied in kind to all 3. I don't have a clue as to what they used to see the text or pics of the actual listing...but access, bidding and payment wasn't a problem.
posted on May 10, 2001 12:16:23 PM new
No Barry...it is the involuntary reaction that occurs moments after death when the muscles in the calf quickly contract, drawing the calves backwards from the knees, giving the impression the body is attempting to kneel.
Many people think this occurs because the soul has just met its maker and is trying to show the proper respect by kneeling.
posted on May 10, 2001 12:56:55 PM new
What about the inner city and rural poor? If this Act has to do with equality of accessibility to a business, how do they access it? Of course, near as I can tell, WalMart hasn't yet started sending cabs out to the sticks to hustle in automotively challenged rednecks where I live, either.
Maybe in the near future those "Billions of Computers Sold Every 72 Nanoseconds" ads on eBay will cost them a few thousand that they have to ship to Appalacia. Is there such a thing as a 'coal-fired' computer? I mean, in case they don't have electricity at the shack?
posted on May 10, 2001 01:15:45 PM new
Amy, I'm assuming you last post was in jest??? I've certainly heard of a "death knell" (short "eh" sound for the vowel), but I've never heard of a "death kneel" (long "ee" sound for the vowel). Thanks, Barry, for setting the record straight.
posted on May 10, 2001 01:22:31 PM newmcbrunnhilde: Usually, when I'm absolutely, positively sure that Amy just HAS to be kidding about something, it turns out she is dead serious. Let's hope she's just kidding this time around, since there ain't no such thing as a "death kneel" no matter HOW you define it....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on May 10, 2001 03:07:48 PM newBarry said "mcbrunnhilde: Usually, when I'm absolutely, positively sure that Amy just HAS to be kidding about something, it turns out she is dead serious. Let's hope she's just kidding this time around, since there ain't no such thing as a "death kneel" no matter HOW you define it...."
Now Barry..how can you be sure I'm joking?
Ever hear of a "death rattle"? (that is the odd gurgling/rattling sound that frequently occurs just prior to death )..or ever hear about rigor mortis? That causes contractions /stiffening of the muscles that can cause a body to suddenly sit up...I remeber one of my father's dinner table stories about a painter that was working in the prep room that day when the body that was laying on the prep table, under a sheet, all of a sudden sat up (and even made a noise)...seems it scared the painter so bad that he dropped the paint and ran screaming out of the mortuary!
But yes, in this case I was jesting!
[ edited by amy on May 10, 2001 03:09 PM ]
posted on May 10, 2001 08:43:44 PM new
Yes Yes, Ho Ho - Let's mock the Sliver for his inepted grammar abilities.
Anyway, before the mods decide to pursue this matter further, I got a response from a friend at the Los Angeles DA's office.
She told me she needed to some more research on this, and she might have to contact someone in San Jose if needed.
But, she did state that it's hard to tell, due to the advances in Society today.
I did reference this thread, but she was abit reserved on a few posts on this thread.
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on May 11, 2001 01:31:19 PM new
Crystalline Sliver:If Your friend is hesitant to call this one because "of advances in Society today", ebay is going to have a field day. I can just imagine how long that could be stung out in court in relation to defining terms of a legal question!
