Sorry this is long, but I'm just cutting and pasting this as I received it. I had a high bidder send me this in response to my end of auction notice. It was for a $1 item. It came at the end of his email stating he was sending out a money order tomorrow. What do you think?
P.S.
The following is sent to all sellers:
I have been ridiculed, slightly harassed, and punished for providing a
neutral feedback to a seller. Apparently that seller considers a
transaction
that took over 30 days to complete, a broken item upon receipt, and
absolutely
no email communication to be an exemplary process. I thought that feedback
was
two fold; to provide pointers to the seller on how they can improve on
their
Ebay transactions and have people want to buy their items, and secondly, to
let
future buyers know what they may possible expect from that seller.
Apparently I
was wrong. Some sellers believe that praise must be automatically given,
regardless of what occurs during the transaction. Therefore, here are my
guidelines toward feedback on an Ebay transaction. This is no different
than the
rules the sellers have 'to protect themselves' (e.g. Payment must be
received
within 10 days, buyer can not use personal checks, money orders only,
etc.).
Even when I use these guidelines, over 99% of the transactions are praise.
All
of these items are easily obtainable, even for overseas and other country
transactions. For the typical seller, they will be natural to achieve. I am
just
trying to protect myself as a buyer. These guidelines allow you, the
seller, to
know what to expect; and for me to have a consistent, objective process
when I
provide feedback .
Transaction time:
Many sellers provide a statement that payment must be received by then
within 10 days (3 days to do the mailing, 7 days to reach the seller), or
'be
possibly subject to negative feedback'. To expect the same 10 days
turnaround
for the item to be received by me is therefore not out of the question.
Please
note that the typical Ebay transaction for me is 14 days; so 20 days is
easily
obtainable. My rating is based on 25 days to adjust for 'extenuating
circumstances' and overseas transactions.
For transactions that take less than 25 days: 0 points
For transactions that take 25 to 31 days: -1 point
For transactions that take over 31 days (no longer on the Ebay
'current'
list): -2 points
Communication:
I have had a few sellers take my money and run. When I receive no
communication as to the progress of the transaction, I become concerned
that I
have encountered that type of seller again. What I promise to provide is an
email to indicate that I have received your initial email, with my mailing
address (the email you are reading); and most likely the fact on how I am
paying
for the item. Also, I will let the seller know when I have received the
item
(and provided feedback). So below are the times which I consider as
potential
communication opportunities. Only one of these I respectfully request back
from
you the seller. Again, I have found that this is what the typical seller
does
anyway.
An email stating that you received the email on how I am paying.
An email stating that you received the payment.
An email stating that you shipped the item (for typical sellers,
receipt of
payment and shipping of item are one email). This is the one I respectfully
request that you do.
NO email stating that you shipped the item is -1 point.
Quality of item:
Each seller provides me with the s&h total. This means that I am paying
an
amount to cover the cost to ship the item to me safely, without damage.
Again,
this is easily obtainable; over 99% of the items I have received have been
fine.
For items that are not broken: 0 points
For items that are damaged: -1 point
For items not as described in auction: -1 point
No receipt of the item: -3 point
Shipping and Handling:
There is a group of sellers on Ebay that believe that buyers should be
overcharged for shipping and handling. I do avoid these sellers as much as
possible, but I am not always successful. Some of them indicate that they
are
just 'covering their costs', including the 'time it takes to get all of the
items together and package it up'. This is fine with me; so long as you
don't
mind me deducting from the transaction my costs. This would be the cost of
the
money order, the cost of the envelope, the cost of the stamp, and paper to
indicate the particulars of the transaction, plus my time to put all of
that
together. This amount would be $1.50. To elucidate, I am always amazed that
a 1
pound mouse pad costs $5.50 for s&h, while a 4 pound battery and charger
can be
shipped at the same shipping rate for $2.00. I know the general cost of
mailing
items and package material; and I will see how much you paid for the
shipping.
Therefore:
A reasonable shipping and handling amount: 0 points
An excessive shipping and handling amount: -1 point
The range is from -6 to 0. The ranking that I will use is:
0, -1, -2: Praise
-3, -4: Neutral
-5, -6: Negative
To reiterate, the typical seller doing what they typically do should
find it
easy to get praise feedback (0, 1, or 2). As an example, even a transaction
where I receive an unbroken item after 30 days with an excessive amount of
postage is considered praise if they email me as to when they ship the item
to
me. Without the email, it would be neutral. If you don't like these
guidelines;
well, now you know what the buyers think of the sellers mandates and
requirements. If vanity has you concerned only about the number of praises
you
receive; please, just go to xxxxxxxxxx and post your picture.
I
apologize for the long dissertation, and I look forward to a praiseworthy
transaction.
posted on May 17, 2001 06:43:04 PM
*GASP* That person really needs to get a life. Man oh man, would I have a ball with that buyer. Sure hope I run into them.
posted on May 17, 2001 06:48:39 PMTo elucidate, I am always amazed that a 1 pound mouse pad costs $5.50 for s&h, while a 4 pound battery and charger can be shipped at the same shipping rate for $2.00. I know the general cost of mailing items and package material;
Golly, a 4lb battery can be shipped for $2.00. Think he'll share this long hidden shipping source with us!
What hubris!
Yeah, it would be fun to play around with this one
edited because I was so amazed at his elucidation, I made ubb boo boo
[ edited by eventer on May 17, 2001 06:49 PM ]
posted on May 17, 2001 06:50:40 PM
This is the first time I have actually seen an excellent use for eBay's "block a bidder" program. I just wish you could tell all of us who this bidder *is*.
posted on May 17, 2001 06:53:26 PM
It really is a bizarre email! I did email him asking to clarify a few things. This is one of the longest response to my EOA notices I've ever received!
Not skyline8 on eBay.
posted on May 17, 2001 06:57:57 PM
Frist thing I would Not send one other message to that buyer.
I would accept there payment ship there item and leave it go at that just like any other sale after the sale was complete and over I would leave a netural for the sale even if it went fine with a statement saying I take off biger points for naging buyers.
if this person really wants to run auctions they should list there own items.
Wow, that is one of the (funniest??) things I've read in a while.
I, too, would LOVE to find out who he is so I could block him as well!
He needs to realize that when bidding, he is agreeing to OUR terms (the seller's TOS) when he places a bid ... we do not HAVE to agree to HIS rediculous TOS .....
posted on May 17, 2001 07:09:24 PM
I dunno...
Although poorly phrased and written in an argumentative manner, I would have to say that I see nothing out of line with his statement.
I too would not leave a positive for excessivly long shipping times.
Nor would I leave a positive for excessive shipping charges.
And finally, I definitely would not leave a positive for a poorly packed or poorly decribed item.
HE is giving YOU profit (hopefully.)
So yes, he DOES have a basis for requesting what is in essence, nothing more than what any QUALITY seller would provide anyway.
What he is really expressing is a total frustration with sellers who feel obligated to have a TOS that is much longer than their auction description.
Which, BTW, is one of the most often mentioned reasons for a buyer NOT to bid.
"Ok dear, that was 0 for breakfast / -1 for yelling at the kids / -2 for the faked orgasm. All & all not too bad of a day, Honey, but there's definite room for improvement!"
Methinks the word ANAL was invented with this CLOWN in mind!
posted on May 17, 2001 07:48:11 PM
Buyers & Sellers are forgetting your not on ebay selling Items for feed back at least I'm not.
I sell MY Items if some one bids and wins and pays for the item I ship it to them plan and simple clean sales.
I only Ship Items once a week and if a buyer pays for the bid in a timely manner 99% of all Items can be to the buyer and the transaction over in less then 5 to 7 days from EOA to finish.
Items are Professionally Custom packaged to make it to there destination in the same condition it left in, shipped Priority mail, But they will agree to my terms and they will pay for my services which are clearly stated in every listing.
They will Receive Feed back from me four days after the Item is shipped as a thank you for bidding I dont ask or care if I ever get any feed back ever if I receive feed back great if I dont so what but I wont be held hostage to the feed back the goal was to sell the Item which is clearly decribed and I met my goal.
Buyer who want to be in control of a bussiness or a auction sale should sell there own Items buyers are not bosses they are customers but more importantly they are guests (visters) to MY Auction booth(s) and should act as such.
WHen people send Question about Action they are conducting bussiness and they should send there question as such.
I Am at ebay to Sell my Items and do bussiness it costs me Good $$ Im not there to deal with BS. and nonsense.
posted on May 18, 2001 12:21:53 AM
Since I would not go along with these ridiculous buyer terms, I would void the sale, neg the idiot, and file for a FVF refund. I wouldn't waste one minute arguing with this hothead. What a terrible life this person lives. I've bought over 75 items on ebay and can't think of one circumstance that would cause me to write my own buyer TOS.
posted on May 18, 2001 01:51:06 AM
I don't have the time for it but wouldn't it be fun to send this person back a 20 page TOS of your own?
In reality, I would just ignore it as I ship the day or the day after payment is received and then post feedback the day after that. I put in the feedback the date the item was shipped.
posted on May 18, 2001 02:06:51 AM
Just tell him that you are going to pretend he didn't send that e-mail, and payment had better get to you within 10 days, or you're going to pull his scrotum up over his head and throw him down a flight of stairs.
posted on May 18, 2001 02:40:00 AM
I am not sure what everyone is seeing is so offensive or out of line.
This buyer is laying out the same type of TOS we are seeing more and more on auctions, why not?
IMHO, buyers need to have some guideline on leaving feedback, the same as sellers. Maybe he should keep that criteria to himself, but I, for one applaud him.
As a seller I would have no trouble at all following these guidelines, even without his email.
we ask for timely payment, he asks for timely shipping
we ask for EOA response, he asks for payment received response
we all have been griping about the sellers who are gouging on the shipping charges, so is he
posted on May 18, 2001 05:57:54 AM
There is one fatal flaw with the concept of a "winning bidder's" TOS: It is supplied to the seller after the fact. There is no opportunity for the seller to refuse to accept the terms of a buyer's TOS as the auction is already over by the time he sees it.
The bidder is in the driver's seat as long as the auction is still open. He can review the seller's TOS and decide if he can live with the terms. If not, the solution is simple. Don't bid. There are other sellers that probably DO have a TOS you can live with. Find them! If there ARE NO other sellers with a TOS that you can live with, then you probably shouldn't be transacting business on ebaY in the first place.
The seller has no such luxury. He is pretty well stuck with whatever bozo wins the auction, often a sniper who takes the win at the last second.
No, there is no fair play involved here. Just unreasonable bidders who want to dictate the terms of sale after the fact when THEY, not the seller, had an opportunity to review the TOS before bidding.
Sorry, it ain't gonna happen on MY auctions. Don't like it as a bidder? Neg me. I'll do anything reasonable to avoid a neg. Allowing crap like this to take place isn't reasonable.
Bidders like this are the reason so many sellers wait until the transaction is complete before leaving feedback.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on May 18, 2001 05:59 AM ]
posted on May 18, 2001 06:31:49 AMThere is one fatal flaw with the concept of a "winning bidder's" TOS: It is supplied to the seller after the fact. There is no opportunity for the seller to refuse to accept the terms of a buyer's TOS as the auction is already over by the time he sees it.
posted on May 18, 2001 06:35:38 AM
Starting with a disclaimer here: the guy who wrote that is one can shy of a six-pack.
That said, his response seems to be a reaction to not-so-great experiences with eBay sellers. If I felt as negatively as he does, I wouldn't buy on eBay.
However, it can be disheartening to see an item you want to bid on, only to then read TOS as follows:
Payment options: MONEY ORDER ONLY - I DON'T TAKE PERSONAL CHECKS OR CREDIT CARDS - DON'T ASK!
Payment to be received in 7 days or negative feedback will be left.
Shipping (on this 1-2 pound item) is $11.00 within the US.
NO THIS!
NO THAT!
NO ANYTHING! And especially NO CANADIANS!
MO's are incovenient, and I'd rather spend my money on insuring the item than buying a piece of paper because the seller assumes most buyers are cheats.
I live in the boonies (can't even get USPS overnight here) and while most checks I mail do arrive w/in 7 days, do I want to risk a neg because of the USPS?
As to the inflated shipping, sure if the item is worth $50 bucks, and that shipping turns so many people off that the goober only gets a $3 bid on his/her item, I'll go for it. But it turns me off too.
I guess all I'm saying is that while this person is obnoxious, he's got a point. If we want to be nit picky in our TOS, we have to expect some people to be offended by it. However, if he really wants to do this, he should send his TOS BEFORE he bids and see if a potential seller blocks him.
posted on May 18, 2001 06:39:32 AM
I wonder what his feedback looks like. I had a bidder send me an email like that. Being a new seller I wanted to please them. I followed all the directions and they left me no feedback Other sellers left them neg feedback for being too demanding.
posted on May 18, 2001 06:49:31 AM
This buyer is welcome in my house, I'll even make a fresh pot of tea.
There is absolutely nothing in the tos which are unusual, indeed, they offer a great set of guidelines for many self-centered sellers who need to learn how to make a customer happy.
I hope this person bids on my auctions, I know I will easily exceed their expectations.
As a buyer, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps those who are upset don't describe accurately, overcharge for shipping, pack poorly, ship slowly, get picky about payment form, fail to communicate or otherwise treat the customer shabbily.
And for all of you with ridiculously long tos in your ads, now you know how buyers feel about being not trusted. There is a valuable lesson here for those willing to listen, from someone who is buying, even if it is only a dollar item.
posted on May 18, 2001 07:38:03 AM
Eventer> aaaahahahahahahhahahaha You and I think alike. Love your answer!
litlux> I don't think anyone is upset at all just dumbfounded. This tos is simply outlandish, as any seller knows for the most part, how to sell, package, and manage their auctions. Some are just too lazy to do the job well from start to finish. This tos is likened to: You will play this marble game using the red, green, yellow, and blue marbles in this order, or I will pee in your marble pot and take mine and go home. How silly. This person need to seriously go and clean out some junk drawers or polish the door knobs or sumpin'!
posted on May 18, 2001 07:49:11 AM
I would be happy with this buyer since I think his TOS is quite in order with what I would expect as a buyer. The only problem is that sellers don't get to see a buyer's TOS. Maybe ebay should provide a link for every buyer to leave a TOS that sellers could read and decide if they want to do business.
Then again, in my 20+ years of business, my buyers have very rarely given me anything that spelled out what they expected or they agreed with my contract and then changed their minds after the fact. I have learned that if I get a "bad vibe" from a prospective customer, I don't do business with them.
After 20+ years of business, I have just had my first customer sue me. He hired me to write a custom program, spent hours with me going over it and then three months later, after I installed it at his office, he says it's not what he wants and he wants all his money back. I discovered (of course after the fact) that he has done this to many people and has many lawsuits pending. I wish I had known this before getting involved.
Maybe there's a market for a new product: a digital tie that displays the person's
"business rating." Like their ebay rating but it takes all feedback from all financial transactions. If this guy had walked in showing his -100, I would have shown him the door.
So I wouldnt mind getting a list of what the customer expects. I would just like to get it before the deal is made.
posted on May 18, 2001 08:03:27 AM
I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with this buyer since I can see I would get a perfect 'score' in looking over his TOS (which he is perfectly right to have---most buyers simply don't spell it out, would you rather not know??) If you're offended by this buyer, let me ask you---are you offended by what he's asking for, or by his tone? If you have problems with what he's asking for, you need to get off of Ebay. These are basic things---courtesy, customer service, and shipping stuff. He's more than generous in the amount of time he allows for shipping, in giving allowance for handling, etc. Elementary.
If you are objecting to his tone--it's your everlasting control issues again. You may be in charge, but your bidders DO have a say in this auction! They are allowed to have standards and they DO have the right to request good service! Get over the 'tone' thing and listen to what he is saying and why he is saying it. Some of the sellers here think that their struggle for absolute control over what bidders do or how they react is actually laudable and will tear me apart, I'm sure, but please GET OVER IT.....it makes you look like someone who never got over a controlling parent.....I WORK with my bidders, personally, instead of reacting to them. And I'd be happy to work with this buyer. He sounds much less controlling than some of the regular posters here.
To the original poster: Did any of his requests violate your TOS? If so please list them. If not, then what are you complaining about?
posted on May 18, 2001 08:13:28 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While bidders can be turned off by long-winded TOS from sellers, the same thing goes for long-winded TOS from bidders. Even though there are some good points in it,he could have easily simplied it.:
"Sorry but due to the fact that I was burned several times from sellers, I will leave neutral feedback if the the package is over 30days late and if its poorly package that could lead to damage. I would appreciate a e-mail notice when you recieved my payment and when it is shipped, just so I know everything is fine. Communication is the key to a smooth transaction!
Thank You."
Maybe write this alittle more nicer, but you get my drift.
I'm wondering if this guy is a retired drill sargent? LOL
Other sellers left them neg feedback for being too demanding. 