posted on May 26, 2001 08:45:43 PM
My wife has been approached to possibly sell some mechanical banks on eBay for another dealer. These are high priced banks ($5,000 - $8,000). Having no experience with a consigned auction, I ask for assistance.
What percentage should I charge the owner/dealer?
Who should pay the eBay fees?
What if a reserved price auction has not been met?
What other contractual points should be determined?
I have not talked to the owner of the banks, but he did give contact information to my wife today. I have not contacted him - looking for advise first. She knows him as an antique books and paper goods dealer. They both have sold at shows. I believe these are from his personnal collection and that he has no computer or eBay interest. This needs verification.
Thank you for your question, and I will add that to my list of questions for him.
posted on May 26, 2001 09:50:35 PM
A few points to think about:
You should require the seller to place the items in your possession before listing.
The contract should state that the seller is not to contract with any other party for the sale of these items until/unless the auction ends unsuccessfully.
Your fee should be the highest you can negotiate, but set a bare minimum of what you will accept, being what you value your time and effort in this sale.
You should pass along all eBay related fees, especially if there is a reserve that may not be met. You may even want to set a minimum fee that you'll receive even if they do not sell.
A signed contract spelling out all of the details wouldn't be a bad idea.
Good luck, and don't pay attention to all the 'nay sayers'.
posted on May 26, 2001 10:25:18 PM
(trying again- hopefully this will pass muster with the eagle-eyed moderators...)
Many who have done eBay consignment sales end up
regretting it. Those who continue generally suggest
about 40% commission for routine items. If you're
talking big-ticket items (and you are), a smaller
commission might be in order (25%?).
For items of this value, have the consignor sign an
agreement. Points to agree upon include who pays eBay
fees (probably you); whether optional eBay fees and
services will be used, and if so, who pays; what the
minimum bid or reserve acceptable to the owner is; who
retains possession of the item during the auction; who
takes pics; who is responsible for providing a
complete description; whether the owner is permitted
to bid on the auction in question (no!-- don't let the
owner or his 'agent' bid on the auction); when the
owner is to be paid by you (within 30 days of you
receiving payment from buyer?); what happens of buyer
is a NPB, what happens if the item doesn't reach
reserve (do you get anything?) and more.
Take a look at some of the companies and individuals
that currently offer eBay consignment services to get
an idea of ballpark fees, and issues you need to
address with your potential clients:
(Links deleted. Do a Google or Metacrawler search for "eBay consignment" and you'll find a few companies and individuals that have walked this path before-- learn from their experience).
Lot's of pitfalls- remember it's your reputation on
the line if the deal goes bad because of bad faith or
neglegence on the part of the owner. Look before you
leap!
posted on May 27, 2001 05:53:56 AM
I met a mother/son team of counterfitters a few years back who actually used Butterfields as a clearing house for their 'old' banks. They insisted they were real to me but I think otherwise. Since then, I have been leary of listing for others.
I like happy satisfied customers.
posted on May 27, 2001 06:48:15 AM
"My wife has been approached to possibly sell some mechanical banks on eBay for another dealer. These are high priced banks ($5,000 - $8,000)."
Perhaps retail, but how are they selling on eBay? The owne4 might expect "book" price and will be unlikely to get it.
"What percentage should I charge the owner/dealer?"
Enough to earn you more than minimum wage for your work. How about a flat fee per bank, in advance, for the service of listing them (pics, description, emails, shippnig, etc.)
"Who should pay the eBay fees?"
Bank's owner, regardless of sale.
"What if a reserved price auction has not been met?"
Bank's owner STILL pays fees. Their reserve (or BIN) should be what they are willing to accept for the bank.
"What other contractual points should be determined? "
Who soaks up the bad check fees, the reserve price is not to be changed after auction starts, and that you have physical possession of the banks AND the legal right to sell it to the highest bidder.
A common problem with consignment is the owner changing its mind about an item, sticking the lister with the bad feedback.
posted on May 27, 2001 06:51:25 AM
I have sold many Items for other people
magazine_guy gives some very good advice I have a few more tips to include.
When you sell for other people it is best to insist on listing fees before you run the auction or ask the person for there credit card number and set them up there own ebay account.
Make it clear if you use your own account that all other fees come off the top before they receive any money from the sales and keep records of the winning bids and fees also make it clear that they will recive there check or money order every 90 day this will cover you incase of bounced check charge backs returns and so on.
Dont forget to keep track of all payments made by credit cards these fees add up fast.
Make sure they understand that if a credit card payment is charged back they are responable for the these fees as well.
I know this might sound silly but some people over look this make sure your percentage for the sale is calculated on the total sale before fvf and all.
IF the items you are selling need more packageing then just a priority box and a piece of bubble wrap set a fee for packing there items untill I did this the cost of packing item I was selling for other ate into my profit on the sale big time.
I charged a percentage of 35% and found I could make out pretty good on all items over $25.
IF you are takeing all the picture doing the research and writeing the descriptions set a price you time is worth more then nothing from $5 to $9 per hour is not unresonable.
the #1 rule though is make sure all fees are paid before the person you are selling for gets any $$ from any sale.
posted on May 27, 2001 07:58:02 AM
Mike
Some excellent advise here so far...Let me add one twist what if you sell the items take your cut give him the money and in lets say 30 days athe buyer comes back says he had a expert look at the peice and that it is a good repro He wants a refund he files fraud with safe harbor your seller either can't be found or refuses to refund. YOUmade the sale it's you they are coming after.
to me the potential liabiality far outweighs the potential gain.
I would suggest to this dealer that he place them with a noted toy auction, check out the antique trader there should be some listed there. Also I don't know that ebay is the best venue for high end item's
"what if you sell the items take your cut give him the money and in lets say 30 days athe buyer comes back says he had a expert look at the peice and that it is a good repro He wants a refund he files fraud with safe harbor your seller either can't be found or refuses to refund. YOUmade the sale it's you they are coming after.
to me the potential liabiality far outweighs the potential gain."
This is why in my reply I said if the person listing has to do research on the Item also my post outline that the owner of the ITem dont receive payment for at least 90 day.
any charge back bounced checks damages and refunds and other claims will have out lived there time limits at that point usually.
if you pay the person your selling for after ebay is paid this means you dont part with sales funds for three month and 15 days after the sale nearly four month.
Reports to safe harbor and sometimes bad feed back is one of the chance t the account holder takes to sell these items.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:30:56 AM
dman
I am not a expert here but is there a 90 day period after which all sales are final ?
I am just speculating but it seems to me on a high end item like this if lets say 6 months later the buyer went to antiques roadshow and on national televsion they were advised " this is a repro ...a good one but still a repro..where may I ask did you get it ... I bought it off off ebay !!!
I would expect safe harbor to still be intersted and I would think we could be looking at a cival court matter also
Speaking strictly for me I don't see any amont of commission that would justify my taking thess risks.
I'm in the process of setting up a deal where I will be selling some items for a friend and see how it goes. Could become permanent if all goes well. We haven't started yet, but will be as soon as all the issues are ironed out.
This is what I'm doing to protect myself.
My friend sets up his own (new or use his currect buyer account) eBay seller account with his credit card. I also have the password to list his items (photograph, write descriptions, etc.).
We are opening up a new e-mail account for him to use strictly for e-Bay transactions. We both have the password. I write and answer all e-mails, but he has access to monitor what is going on.
With no concrete idea on what to charge, we're going to start with me charging $5 for each item listed plus 15% of the sale total. If it looks like that is not enough for my time and effort, then we will up it slightly. He plans to sell items $50 on up.
So in short, I have no liability for his sales. It is his credit card, eBay account and e-mail address. I just photograph and list items, answer e-mails, send EOA and package and ship the item.
edited to add: The reason I'm selling for this person is because he is an older dealer (70s) who usually does flea markets and is tired of the setting up and tearing down. He uses a computer at the library, but does not have one of his own. Doesn't like spending a lot of time on computer because he stiffens up from sitting so long. And, he is a slow one finger typist.
But he loves buying antiques and collectibles at auctions and estate sales and needs a means to sell the items. This is where I come in.
[ edited by brie49 on May 27, 2001 09:11 AM ]
posted on May 27, 2001 10:06:58 AM
We have been approached to sell a huge collection of Precious Moments figurines for a retired gentleman. These items belonged to his wife who died about a year and a half ago and he is just now ready to part with them. I sent him the following information so he would understand how the auction works and what we are going to charge. I know this is not the "be all, do all" contract, but I feel this will work for our agreement. Your milage may vary.
********************************************
HOW AN INTERNET AUCTION WORKS
An Internet Auction works almost exactly like any other auction. In fact, it might be helpful to think of an Internet Auction as a gigantic preview catalog. Each item is presented on its own page and provides details, pictures and bidding information. An experienced seller will include several relevant photos and a lot of detail on your item. Buyers and collectors are more than willing to spend money on your items but only if they feel they really know what they are bidding on.
eBay is currently the most popular of the Internet auction sites. There are other Internet Auction sites (Yahoo! Auctions, Amazon Auctions) but none are as popular as eBay.
Internet auctions generally take the following format:
· A seller lists an item for sale with a minimum bid price (the lowest amount they would accept for their item).
· Auctions can last three, five, seven or ten days on eBay. Most sellers use the seven-day auction for maximum exposure. Some use the 10-day format by listing on Thursday, which gives the item two weekends of exposure.
· Sellers are charged a Listing Fee based on the minimum bid price of their item.
· Buyers may shop the auctions by looking at photos or searching for a particular item via ?keywords.?
· Once a buyer finds an item they are interested in, they should carefully read the description, making note of any restrictions that may apply (i.e. some sellers do not sell internationally) . Buyers should also note any shipping information and additional handling fees that a seller may apply to the auction.
· If a buyer still has questions about the item, they should e-mail the seller for more information.
· The buyer may then place a bid on the item and hope they are the high bidder when the auction is complete. Buyers can increase their bids if they are outbid by another bidder but only up until the auction expires.
· Once the auction is over, the buyer and seller have three business days in which to contact each other to complete the sale.
· Depending on the payment methods accepted by the individual seller, payment may be made within hours of the auction ending or could take as long as two or three weeks. Some sellers hold personal checks that have been sent for payment for an additional two weeks for clearance by their bank.
· Once payment is received and cleared, the seller ships the item to the buyer according to the shipping method agreed upon.
Feedback
Feedback is one of the most valuable tools in determining the credibility of sellers and buyers on Internet Auctions. Feedback is left for the seller or the buyer after the completion of any transaction. Positive feedback is desirable, with neutral and negative feedback as options. The seller ID used for our consignment sales currently has feedback in excess of 1,000 positives.
WHAT WE CAN DO FOR YOU
We will attractively present your item, ensuring it can be found by every potential buyer. Descriptive text will be grammatically correct, properly spelled and well-written. Photos will be properly positioned to insure rapid and clearly-focused display.
WHAT WE CHARGE
Administrative Fee
A non-refundable Administrative Fee of $___ will be charged for each item we list for you. This Administrative Fee covers the cost to inspect, research, photograph, write the auction description, list your item for sale, and package and ship your item. It also covers the listing fee and the final value fee charged by eBay.
If you decide to list your item as one lot (example: an entire collection of Beanie Babies), we will charge $___ per item. Therefore, if you had 100 Beanie Babies in your collection, the Administrative Fee would be $___.
Commission
We will charge a __% commission on the final sales price of each item.
OTHER IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Broken, Lost or Stolen Items
We never like to think that something bad will happen to your item, but the unexpected can happen. If an item is broken, lost or stolen while in our possession, we are prepared to pay you 50% of the book value price of each item. If there is no book value available, we will research eBay for the past 30 days and pay you an average selling price for that item.
How We Like to Run Our Auctions
For your items with a value of at least $20, we like to start each auction with a $9.99 minimum bid. Our experience has shown that this is a good opening bid amount for most auctions. Starting an auction with a high opening bid can hamper bidding activity. However, if there are not many potential bidders for a particular piece, we feel we must inform you that the item may not sell or may sell for the $9.99 opening amount. If you have any items that you feel you must obtain a certain amount in order to sell them, please let us know. We can include a reserve price in these auctions for an additional non-refundable Administrative Fee of $___. This reserve auction fee is the amount eBay will charge us to run a reserve auction and we are just passing this expense on to you.
For items valued at less than $20, we suggest a $5 minimum bid.
Approximately 95% of our auctions are held for seven days. We will, on occasion, run an auction for 10 days if we feel that the item will end with a higher final bid if it is available for 10 days. For example, if a seven day auction would conclude on Thanksgiving Day, it would most likely be in your best interest to run the auction for ten days since many people are away from home and computers on Thanksgiving Day. If an item does not sell within the initial listing period, we will re-list the item once more at no additional charge.
We accept MasterCard and Visa for payment via a third-party company, PayPal. We are also investigating another third-party company, BillPoint, for future auction sales. Any fees associated with a buyer paying via either of these methods are our responsibility and are included in the Administrative Fee.
We also accept money orders, cashier?s checks and personal checks. Some buyers will send cash but we do not encourage it for obvious reasons. We have found it pointless to hold personal checks for clearance before shipping an item. In our 2.5 years in selling on the Internet, we have only had six bad checks with all but one of them being made right by the buyer. You will be paid regardless of the payment status of the buyer.
Your account will be reviewed on the 15th and the last day of the month. A statement and check, if applicable, will be sent to you at that time. The statement will outline all auctions closed during that time period. It will also include the final sales price, outline any deductions for Administrative Fees and Final Value Fees and the amount due to you.
posted on May 27, 2001 10:33:58 AM
I would not do it. Takes too much of my time. If something goes wrong, you are the one that will take the flack.
Now as someone else said that all they would do is moniter the site and they set up their own account, well why bother then? Let them do their own then.
posted on May 27, 2001 11:24:18 AM
small items yes I always like to look tword the worst case....worst case on a 100.00 sale I get stuck I refund 100.00
Kids still eat lights stay on life goes on
I get stuck on 5000.00 have to refund....big problems couldn't afford to refund.
If you are always prepared for the worst scenario the most likley one dosen't hurt
Actually There are many positives to selling for other people and the likely hood of problems are lower then most are makeing them out to be.
One good side to selling items for other is the chance to offer item you would not normally offer your self drawing in buyer who would maybe not find your other sale so the side effect is incressing your own selling.
keep in mind this person wont be selling nickle and dime items 25% of 4 or 5 thousand dollars sale is $1000 and up my feelings wouldnt be hurt over the time it took to list an item that sold for a cut that nice.
Weather the Items are repos or orginals only take a little bit of ones time.
mechanical banks are a high selling item and the real deal is usually pretty easily Identifiable.
Banks are as well a very good seller on Ebay I dont see many selling for the price that is mention here but they sell very very well.
in fact my frist sales on ebay when I started selling was two carnival glass Pig bank I found at a garge sale for .25 each I made $55 on them got my frist bid 4 hours after listing.
90 days is plenty of time for a buyer to decide if they are happy with there item and have it checked out if they choose to do that.
I have made good money selling for other at just 30% & 35% of the winning bid pluss all fees never a problem one key though is to alway insure shipping even if the buyer dont choose to insure only makes sense to protect all sides in a three party deal.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:13:34 PM
I have sold several high ticket items on consignment, with good results. However, I had a friend whose life became a nightmare doing this. He accepted a collection of toothpick holders belonging to an old lady who died. Her husband consigned them about 6 months after his wife's death. We are talking over 300 individual toothpick holders here. My friend worked hundreds of hours photographing, researching, and listing. The items sold for over $8500.00. A couple of months later, the deceased lady's sister came forward with evidence the toothpick holders really belonged to her, not the husband. My friend became party to a civil lawsuit. It was eventually settled out of court, but my friend's attorney fees topped $3000, far more than the commission she charged. Her attorney told her this kind of thing happens all the time with traditional auction houses, but they have legal forms and insurance for this type situation.
posted on May 28, 2001 12:51:43 AM
My first advice is to be very leery of mechanical banks. I have seen some *very* well made repros, and there is no guarantee that your friend may not be mistaken as to their authenticity which can become very sticky if a buyer questions it. In the past month 1143 mechanical banks have been posted on eBay. Most apparently antique ones sell for a few hundred. 8 sold for around $1000, and only 4 went in the $2000-4000 range. And the high end ones, like Uncle Remus certainly had other factors influencing their price. Keep in mind that list price has nothing whatever to do with eBay price, and he is likely to see a much better price at an antique market like Brimfield. Or even a local auction. And at those prices, Christies or Sothebies might welcome them.
I myself am considering a similar deal consigning some high end items. I have asked for and got some good advice on this issue.
Your main considerations at first should be to ensure that you have full possession of the items until they sell, and that you are fully assured of the customer satisfaction before you make payment to the original owner. You may wish to insist on escrow, with the seller paying fees, and taking cost out of the consignors payment. Or stating a specific timeframe (10 days) for refunds.
After the items are sold, assuming there are no problems with customer satisfaction, comes your REAL concern - namely tax liability. Remember that the money is being paid to you, and you must be able to show in absolute detail which portion of it is income. I was told that anthing over $600 would require 1099s as well as the assistance of a good tax accountant next year. These run at least $150, so make sure that your profits take this expense into account.
posted on May 28, 2001 05:08:30 AM
"but they have legal forms and insurance for this type situation..."
Just include a line in your contract that consignor guarantees he has good title and will indemnify, defend and hold harmless the seller against all claims regarding title, authenticity etc etc...
But for me, I would stay away from anything made of cast iron, wood or pottery, they are too easy to fake.
posted on May 28, 2001 07:37:55 AM
instead of selling them on consignment why not help the owner sell them himslf...for a fee off course
help him register with ebay use a yahoo or hotmail email account forwarded to you
write the ads for him with his imput and final approval
take the pictures for him
you could call him when you get emails and let him respond
help him ship
this way you help him out but insulate yourself from potential problems
posted on May 28, 2001 05:55:00 PM
Tremendous responses!
I have been out of town since this thread was opened. I'm actually still trying to digest it all, but I really do appreciate every comment. Many of your thoughts and experiences have opened my eyes to the many possibilities and pit falls.
