posted on May 27, 2001 06:50:56 AM
My husband purchased an item. He only purchases from sellers that accept credit cards or online payments (paypal, billpoint, etc.) The auction stated that credit cards were accepted. Husband e-mails after auction closes regarding how to pay by credit card. Seller sends e-mail indicating he accepts paypal for credit cards. Husband leaves me a note with the auction # and says pay by paypal. (he does not have access to the paypal account). I look up auction and pay amount as described in auction (purchase price 69.00 + 10.00 s/h). Husband gets e-mail from seller, got your payment but you did not include the 2.37 for my Paypal fees, please forward fees and I will send your item. HUH?
Husband re-reads original e-mail and discovers that this charge was mentioned in that e-mail, but not in the auction. The seller will not ship the car without the 2.37, we will not pay his paypal fees. It is against Paypal's TOS and eBay's as well. We say, ok, no item, then send MO for refund (79.00) We do not want paypal because then we'd still be paying fees to get our money back.
posted on May 27, 2001 07:15:34 AM
I would send him the 2.37 and let him ship the item
Once I received the item I would do a chargeback with paypal for the 2.37 I would send both pay pal and ebay documentation on the transaction and the fact that he would not ship untill you paid the fee.
I just had a similar situation I won the auction it said paypal accepted no mention of fees the seller sends me a email saying I need to pay his fees if I want to use paypal
I was not in a hurry for the item so I sent him a personell check when I receive the item I intend to forward a copy of his email to pay pal and ebay and leave him a neg.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:32:02 AM
I would forward BOTH emails to PayPal and eBay, and tell the seller that they shouldn't try to break the rules of the sites they use in the course of doing business.
And if they didn't send the item for the bid plus shipping, I would leave them a negative.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:42:43 AM
Yeah, what they said. This is deplorable and what gives sellers a bad name. Definitely neg this jerk when all is done.
posted on May 27, 2001 11:19:07 AM
B:
I would be peeved!
I agree,
either pay the $, get the item, report it & neg
or
report it
*depends on how much DH wants the car!*
posted on May 27, 2001 11:59:06 AM
He is now insisting that he will not refund my entire 79.00, he wants to send 76.67, via Paypal, which will end up as about 75.00 after paypal takes their cut. I an NOT willing to pay 4.00 for the "pleasure" of having him try to charge me an illegal fee.
I took the suggestions above and sent the 2.37. will let you know what happens.
[ edited by Btrice on May 27, 2001 12:14 PM ]
Car has arrived, as described, in a recycled box with newspaper packing and 5.15 postage, leaving a 4.85 "handling" amount. I have filed a complaint with Paypal, and made first report to Safe Harbor/
Should I neg now, or wait?
I am absolutely going to neg on this one, only ? now is when. He has not left FB.
posted on June 1, 2001 08:47:17 AM
I'd neg the crook. If you receive a retaliatory neg, use the respond function to explain that the seller misrepresented payment terms (saying he accepts credit cards but not mentioning that he accepts them through PayPal, and on top of that expects the buyer to pay the fee).
I know that getting a neg will sting, but what this seller did was wrong.
posted on June 1, 2001 05:09:22 PM
what's the rush? he will probably neg you when paypal or ebay contact him.
I would wait though he may leave you a positive then neg him
you have 60 days to leave feedback
posted on June 1, 2001 06:08:13 PM
If you've already decided to neg him (which I don't blame you for!), I would probably go ahead and do it before eBay or PayPal has a chance to contact him regarding your complaint.
With you negging him first, any neg he leaves you in return will look what it is: retaliation.
Once he hears that you reported him, he's liable to be ticked off because of that, and neg you then anyway.
I just think, if you've already decided to do it, that it would be best to neg him first.
Edited to add a slightly evil thought ... You could e-mail him and let him know the item arrived. Then wait a few days to see if he leaves a positive for you. If he does, then he can't leave a negative later! (Okay, okay ... that's kinda mean ... disregard this paragraph!)
posted on June 2, 2001 05:13:49 AM
Well, negs have been exchanged. Hubby is not going to be happy, but oh well. (He had no negs till this jerk.) He also e-mailed calling me a liar, but since I TOLD Paypal AND safe harbor that I have the car, AND sent all e-mails from both of us, I don't think that he's got a leg to stand on.
my FB to him:
Complaint: BEWARE misrepresents payment terms. Tries to charge extra for Credit cards
His to me:
Complaint: WILL NOT PAY FOR AUCTIONS. TELLS LIES AND UNRELIABLE. BEWARE OF THIS BUYER
Response: He demands extra fee to accept paypal, not listed in auction I reported him
posted on June 2, 2001 05:56:08 AM
Don't forget to respond to his neg..I would say that pay pal and safe harbor had been notified of his illegal activities in my response.
posted on June 2, 2001 06:32:03 AM
Just another reason to not like paypal. Paypal accepts the credit card payment and passes the fees on to the seller. Seller accepts payment through paypal and passes the fees on to buyer.
Buyer is right to be unhappy, seller is right to be unhappy, paypal is the cause of so much unhappiness.
dendude
But ALL merchants that accept credit cards are charged fees, not just paypal's. The seller knows this (if they read their agreement, anyway) and should adjust his/her selling prices accordingly if they intend to accept them.
My problem was that he added this fee AFTER the auction was over, when he responded as to how to pay via credit card. If he had mentioned this fee beforehand, my husband would not have bid on the auction, and one of us would have reported him to ebay and paypal for the illegal fees.
posted on June 2, 2001 03:06:05 PM
Check to see what state the seller is from. In some states, it is illegal to charge those fees to the buyer. I believe California is that way + others. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read this. What the seller should do, is add include fees to his starting price as a cost of doing business.
posted on June 5, 2001 05:39:56 AM
Ok, so negs and responses have been exchanged and I am STILL getting e-mail from this guy, who is creating AOL screen names just to e-mail me as fast as I block him. Does any one know how to get him booted off AOL, at least temporarily? I have been forwarding the e-mails to AOL, but no action yet. Just this morning I put together a package of ALL email correspondence between us and forwarded it to Paypal and Safe Harbor.
posted on June 5, 2001 05:49:23 AM
I would send a e-mail to steve case at AOl detailing the problem and asking for help. When I was on aol I always adddressed my problems to him and he would send them to the appropriate dept for attention
I am not sure if steve case is the current ceo of aol I have been AOL free for 3 years now But FInd out who the current ceo is and address the problem to him.
I would also send the seller one last email telling him if he contacts you further you will be in touch with his local law enforcment authorities.
posted on June 5, 2001 05:58:39 AM
You might want to consider pulling his contact information. I'd then consider sending him a registered letter telling him to cease & desist further harassment or you will be turning this information over to law enforcement, now that you know where he lives.
posted on June 5, 2001 10:33:35 AM
His contact info WILL NOT contain a street addess and he will then have this bidder's phone number.
I would not suggest this course of action. Trying to get him booted from AOL and PAYPAL is a safer option.
posted on June 5, 2001 11:03:33 AM
PayPal is not the only one. I recently won a bid on an item, payment terms stated credit cards were accepted via BidPay. No mention of charges other than$49.00 for shipping.
Went to PidPay, they send the seller a money order that you purchase with your credit card. What a shock to learn this will cost me $13.00! (Not to mention it would go on my card as a cash advance)
Have written the seller informing them I plan to check eBays policy before I compleate the transaction. If it is allowable I will honor my commitment, however if it is not I am going to cancell the bid.
Like others, I do not like after sale add on cost. I use my card for purchase protection.
By the way it is against the law in California to charge the buyer credit card fees. Merchants can give a "cash discount" but can not come out and say they are charging you for using your credit card.
afullbarn on eBay
posted on June 5, 2001 11:19:00 AM
Regarding BidPay's fee, they are charging for their service (providing and sending a money order), those fees are not forwarded to the seller. It is less expensive for some international bidders to use their service rather than getting an international money order at the bank. This makes it eBay legal.
PayPal's fees operate pretty much like a regular merchant account, in that they are deducted from the amount paid to the seller, and are SUPPPOSED to be paid by the seller. It is this seller's adding extra to cover the fees that is causing the trouble in this case.
My favorite term for a cash discount is "dead president's" discount.
Forgot to add, I have his address since he did send the item, and I have it. Which police should I contact his or mine?
[ edited by Btrice on Jun 5, 2001 11:23 AM ]
posted on June 5, 2001 11:24:53 AM
Btrice
OK so they can do this...next question, shouldn't the seller include in the payment options that Bidpay charges the buyer to use a credit card? Give me a break, $13.00 is quite a shock! I had planned on adding some upgrades to the final price, but I was not expecting this.
afullbarn on eBay
posted on June 5, 2001 11:30:01 AMHis contact info WILL NOT contain a street addess and he will then have this bidder's phone number.
Well, since he already HAS the buyer's address (otherwise I assume he couldn't have sent the package), it would take the seller about 10 seconds on any look up directory on the web to get this information anyway.
And, with HIS name, phone number and city, the buyer can also use the directory look up to get HIS street address & address their concerns to the correct law enforcement authority.
PLUS, if his contact information turns out to be bogus, he can be turned into SafeHarbor.
posted on June 5, 2001 11:37:46 AM
I am leaving the matter of the 2.37 to Paypal and Safe harbor. I have not replied to any of his emails since June 3, when he called me several vulgar names and said he wished he was in the same state so that he could bloody my nose, among other things. (although I think he thinks he's talking to a man).
posted on June 5, 2001 11:53:46 AM
If he's threatening you (which he is, if he's talking about giving you a bloody nose!), I'd print out all documentation and e-mails (including headers) and take them to your local police station. Then they can contact the police in his area, and perhaps they'll have a little "discussion" with him.
posted on June 5, 2001 01:35:04 PM
Hi Btrice - I had a seller like this - check out "dogiron" on eBay - he refused to send low ending bid items, then retaliated with nasty negs. He started sending me vulgar emails when I reported him to the postal inspectors, and I forwarded them to his ISPs (he had two of them)and got him kicked off both. Ebay just told me "sorry, not vulgar enough". I definitely won't reprint what he said, but it involved calling me a c_ _ t, etc. Anyway, he has finally been removed. On the Paypal issue, I know I have read that either Paypal or eBay or both outlaw sellers passing along the fees. Paypal is pretty responsive to these things, eBay is NOT. Good luck!!! Diane (down.easter)
posted on July 9, 2001 08:19:13 AM
Now that a month has gone by, I can kind of laugh at this one. Here's the response I got from PayPal today regarding my 2.37:
Dear Ms. XXXXXXX,
PayPal has concluded the investigation of your Buyer Complaint.
According to the information you provided, you received the item purchased.
As a result, we cannot reverse the transaction or issue a refund. We
encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable
resolution.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint will
be noted in the record of the PayPal user you reported. If we find this
user to have violated our policies, we will restrict this user's account
until complaints against the user have been resolved satisfactorily. If we
take such an action against this user's account, we may ask you to confirm
whether or not your complaint has been resolved.
We value your business and regret that you have had this experience. To
avoid similar experiences in the future, we recommend that you read our
Security Tips on our website located at:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fraud-prevention-outside
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Complaint Resolution Department
-------------------------------
"If we find this
user to have violated our policies, we will restrict this user's account
until complaints against the user have been resolved satisfactorily."
aren't fees to accept PayPal against their TOU?
darn UBB
[ edited by Btrice on Jul 9, 2001 08:20 AM ]
[ edited by Btrice on Jul 9, 2001 08:23 AM ]
[ edited by Btrice on Jul 9, 2001 08:24 AM ]
[ edited by Btrice on Jul 9, 2001 08:26 AM ]
