gen322
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posted on May 30, 2001 07:40:09 AM
The following happened to me recently, and I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience.
I placed a designer knock-off handbag on Ebay. I told the truth in the title and in the description (referred to it as "faux Kate Spade). Within 3 hours, Ebay tossed the auction off, called me on the phone, and sent an email explaining that I was
infringing on copyrights and warning me not to do it again.
I re-wrote the description, called it a designer styled handbag, used no names, and asked prospective bidders to email me if they had any questions. Again, within a very short time, the auction was tossed off. I received an automated email from Ebay telling me to read their terms. When I responded that I thought this was unfair, I didn't hear from them. No phone call this time. Does anyone know what I did wrong the second time?
Gen322
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popnrock
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posted on May 30, 2001 07:48:17 AM
My aunt works for a famous French fashion house. She told me that the company has people looking on Ebay for their items or knock offs and has them pulled. It doesn't seem right that a knock off bag would be tossed.
Miss J
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jrb3
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posted on May 30, 2001 07:56:04 AM
What Part Of TOS Against Selling knock off items do you not understand?
Selling knock off items is illegal regardless of listing it as a knock off or not. Go ahead and list it again and you will find yourself suspended.
Good for Ebay at least they are on their toes keeping such illegal items off the site.
So reputable sellers can make a profit.
Joe B
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gen322
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posted on May 30, 2001 08:28:30 AM
I don't know where Joe comes from, but where I live, selling knock off items is not against the law.
I resent the inference that I am not a reputable seller......
With 236 feedbacks, and no negs, I take pride in my pictures and descriptions that describe everything in great detail, and I am not DISHONEST.
After some research, I've found that you can type in a designer name (ie Kate Spade) and in the search come up with items that the seller describes as "looks like Kate Spade"......and that's OK with Ebay.
This is where I have a problem.
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computerboy
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posted on May 30, 2001 08:31:35 AM
Amen.
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petertdavis
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posted on May 30, 2001 08:52:39 AM
Selling "knock-off" items (AKA counterfeits) of the stuff I sell would not only get you off-eBay, but in prison for a very very long time.
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wallypog
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posted on May 30, 2001 08:53:14 AM
[i]After some research, I've found that you can type in a designer name (ie Kate Spade) and in the search come up with items that the seller describes as "looks like Kate Spade"......and that's OK with Ebay.
This is where I have a problem.[/i]
No, that's not all right with eBay. Many people do it but it's called 'keyword spamming'. That's probably what got your listing ended to begin with. In order for auctions like that to be cancelled someone has to report them to eBay. Then they take action. Otherwise the listings run their course.
I really can't understand at all why they'd cancel it a second time after you took the name out--that doesn't even make sense. More than likely someone checked your auctions again and re-submitted it to eBay and they didn't read the description. From what I've understood they're very good about not thoroughly investigating before acting.
---------------------------
http://www.wallypogsbog.bizland.com
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capotasto
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posted on May 30, 2001 08:59:28 AM
gen322 -- "I don't know where Joe comes from, but where I live, selling knock off items is not against the law. "
Maybe if you lived in the good old USA you would understand that selling counterfeit merchandise, even if you don't use the name of the brand copied, is illegal in every state -- it's the federal trademark / copyright laws.
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popnrock
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posted on May 30, 2001 09:06:02 AM
Gen322, I know what you meant by knock off. Some people do not know a thing about fashion terms. Knock off and counterfeits are two different terms.
Miss J 
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figmente
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posted on May 30, 2001 09:09:26 AM
Knock-off is a vague term here. Some, but not all knock-offs, may infringe on the originals' copyright, trademark, or patent rights but many do not. IP rights under trademark seem to potentially go broad, but copyright and patent rights are quite specific. If it looks like Kate Spade but does not include their name, and is not a direct copy of their product then it is usually legal - BUT that will not necessarily stop Kate Spade from getting it kicked off ebay.
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RB
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posted on May 30, 2001 09:10:21 AM
"Maybe if you lived in the good old USA you would understand that selling counterfeit merchandise, even if you don't use the name of the brand copied, is illegal in every state -- it's the federal trademark / copyright laws."
It's similar in all parts of the world, except eBayLand. They have their own laws about what is and what isn't legal to sell. The problem is, their laws keep changing
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vargas
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posted on May 30, 2001 11:00:06 AM
Who said the bag was "counterfeit?"
"Knockoff" is a well-known fashion industry term. It's the affordable version of high-end designer stuff --- it's most of the non-designer name clothing you buy at big name department stores as well as Target and Wal-mart.
There are big houses that specialize in knockoffs.
When you see a one-of-a-kind designer dress at a Hollywood awards show --- you'll see "knockoff" versions in stores within days.
When a big designer shows a mini skirt with a swirly pattern on the runway --- you'll see similar mini skirts with swirly patterns on store racks from coast to coast within days.
Knockoffs are NOT passed off as the originals.
A counterfeit item, on the other hand, passes itself off as an original item -- right down
to the fake tags and markings.
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jrb3
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posted on May 30, 2001 11:05:47 AM
Well if you don't beleive me go ahead and list it again, see what happens.
Many times not only are the logo of a designer protected but color schemes, colors, and the design of the item itself are all protected. Selling items that have trade marked or copywrited features is illegal, in the US and many countries abroad.
Joe B
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RB
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posted on May 30, 2001 11:11:05 AM
"Selling items that have trade marked or copywrited features is illegal, in the US and many countries abroad."
That, plus a buck and a half will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuck's
eBay does not recognize US Code 17 or the DMCA. I suspect this handbag listing was ended by a competitor also selling knock offs. Perhaps an eBay PowerSeller. They seem to get listened to more often ..
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skip555
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posted on May 30, 2001 03:08:17 PM
wouldn't that also be keyword spamming ?
listing as faux xxxx....
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dontturnmein
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posted on May 31, 2001 04:38:58 AM
This is definitely keyword spamming.
My solution is to alter the names a little. Notice how many knock off Chanel sellers spell Chanel, Channel? This is on purpose.
You could use Faux Kate Spadde in your titles so that a keyword search would *not* pull up your item, but anyone doing a general visual scan -- and looking to save some money -- would still get a good idea of what you are selling.
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goldenclutter
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posted on May 31, 2001 04:56:38 AM
It is not illegal to sell knockoffs as long as the name labels are not there. Target is famous for selling knockoffs. That's why I shop there. Wall Street Journal had an article about how good Target is at that. There are no designer labels on their clothes, anyone who has any knowledge about the fashion industry knows this. By the way, knockoffs may or may not be of the same quality (or even better!). But who cares if it is cheap enough. Owning a handbag for one or two seasons is good enough for most anyway. Knockoffs are a way of life for the fashion industry. Look at the sewing stores and their patterns, Knockoffs galore!
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popnrock
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posted on May 31, 2001 05:29:53 AM
I have a Gucci bamboo handle bag in black. I paid over $400 for it. Target had a knock off of the same bag for $20. I bought in brown. If I were to list the Target bag on Ebay I would describe it as a bamboo handle bag. I lucked out once when a bag I won on Ebay turn out to be a vintage Gucci. I thought I was getting a knock off.
Miss J
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wyliecoyote21
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posted on May 31, 2001 06:53:09 AM
Why do so many auctions say guaranteed authentic doesn't this imply that there are a lot of knock off product out there. I have seen a lot of auction that say I am not sure if this a real Coach purse or Dooney purse because it doesn't have the registration number or any tags inside. Are they just getting around the rules? You know they are fake because every Coach or Dooney purse has the registration number inside. These auction should be kicked off too? Just another thought to add to this discussion.
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SmittyAW
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posted on May 31, 2001 06:57:06 AM
wyliecoyote21 ..
You posted the same message twice so I deleted one of them..
Smitty
[email protected]
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rca001
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posted on May 31, 2001 08:27:12 AM
wyliecoyote21 - I agree with you that most of the time the seller says this, its to hide a fake, but not all Dooneys have numbers - the older ones don't. Same thing on Coach - I know of a Coach bag from 1963. It does not have a serial number, but it was authenticated at a Coach store.
edited for misspelling Wyliecoyote's name. Sorry about that!
[ edited by rca001 on May 31, 2001 08:33 AM ]
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