posted on May 30, 2001 08:02:48 AM
I recently had an auction end with no bids. Someone used eBay's ask bidder a question feature to e-mail me and say the following:
"I saw that you had [WIDGET] for sale on eBay and did not sell
it. If you are interested, I would like to purchase the book for $[dollar amt. here] total
(that includes shipping). I noticed on Amazon that I can buy the book new
for $[dollar amt. here], so I think that is a fair price for a used book. Let me know if
you still have it and are interested in selling it for that price!"
posted on May 30, 2001 08:07:33 AM
my understanding of it is that it is against the rules for the buyer to send you that email thru ebay's system, but it is not against the rules for you to sell it to them. Of course, I can't keep up with eBay's interptation of their own rules, so I might be wrong this week.
posted on May 30, 2001 08:22:20 AM
It didn't used to be against the rules for a person to contact the seller but I do believe they changed this and now at the very least this person has 'spammed' you. But give me a break! The item belongs to you, not eBay. It ran once with no bids; now it's up to you to either re-list or dispose of the item. If the person had contacted you and asked you to end it early so they could buy it, and you ended the auction and sold it to them that could be considered 'fee avoidance'.
posted on May 30, 2001 08:48:37 AM
Eventer, does this mean anything I own cannot be sold, except through ebay? Of course not. It means that if the item is in an active auction, you cannot offer to purchase it outside of the auction..
Since the auction is over, the owner cansell it to whoever he wants, however he wants.
"my understanding of it is that it is against the rules for the buyer to send you that email thru ebay's system, ,..."
Yes it may be but since ebay will not give you the sellers emai address that may be the only way to contact him, so ebay can just stuff this rule.
posted on May 30, 2001 11:13:19 AM
Sorry, but in the strictest sense of eBay's rules, once an item is listed on their site, whether it sells or not, they own all future rights to that item for ever and ever and ever ...
posted on May 30, 2001 11:26:02 AM
>they own all future rights to that item for ever and ever and ever
Again, it's my understanding (and I know ebay changes their stance on this stuff everyweek, depending on what pinkliner is posting information) that ebay considers any sale that was concluded using their system (in this case, the email forwarding system) to be one they are due fees on.
That's why my user ID on ebay is my email address, and why I have an email link in my auctions. But buyers STILL send emails like this through ebay.
posted on May 30, 2001 11:32:26 AM
[b]
Since the auction is over, the owner cansell it to whoever he wants, however he wants. [/b]
since the contact was the result of the auction you are bound by ebay rules....you are free to sell the item to anyone but if you sell it as a result of the ebay auction you owe them the final value fee
If you want to go this route relist as a 3 day auction and let poteinal buyer know or BIN
posted on May 30, 2001 11:39:45 AM
2 years ago I would have been concerned about Ebay's take on the matter.
Ebay has made it obvious to me that the primary goal today is to put the screws to me as quickly and in as many ways as possible. EBAYs rules and its intepretation of its rules are way out of line. Unconscionable(?). I no longer feel that they are operating ethically.
If you want to sell your widget. Sell. Sell it now.
posted on May 30, 2001 11:47:29 AM
Did they contact you with ebay's Email Interceptor System?
I would email them if they provided a direct addy.
And if the price was right, I would sell it in a New York minute.
But my terms for these sales are a little sterner. I insist on insurance and I insist that if they think they will refund that they ship it back according to my guidelines.
Nothings worse than a $500 pile of parts.
Would you be so kind as to post the particular eBay rule that prohibits such a sale?
I know the potential buyer is violating an eBay rule, but for the life of me, I can't find any rule that prohibits circuitmatter, in this case as described, from selling the item.
posted on May 30, 2001 12:32:11 PM
vargas ... as eventer mentioned, you are free to interpret these rules any way you want - the ultimate authority would be eBay, and lately, they have not been very user friendly.
Here's a cut from their rules - I believe all of these could be interpreted differently by eBay and circuitmatter
Fee avoidance - Circumventing eBay fees.
Examples:
Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to offer to sell any listed item outside of eBay
Canceling a listing to sell the item to anyone who contacted the seller through eBay, or became aware of the item through eBay
Ending a listing early to sell the item at a higher price to the winning bidder
Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to offer to sell an item outside of eBay to any of your bidders in a Reserve Not Met listing.
Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to sell duplicate or additional merchandise outside of eBay to underbidders
Listing items in a manner that allows circumvention of eBay fees (click here for more information)
posted on May 30, 2001 12:41:08 PMvargus
[b]Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to offer to sell any listed item outside of eBay{/b}
RBsaved me the trouble of going to ebay
will he have a problem in doing this ?...probably not
but why take the chance for the small amount involved
ebay did their job and brought buyer and seller together and should be compensated.
I still say best course of action would be to relist.
posted on May 30, 2001 01:15:00 PM
I had a situation where the second highest bidder in an auction contacted me to see if I had anymore of the item to sell. The difference is that he had bought from me before and had my email and contacted me directly. Is Ebay entitled to piece of that sale?
posted on May 30, 2001 01:59:06 PM
eBay figures (rightly or wrongly, your choice) that eBay is entitled to FVF's for any sale of any item that is a direct result of eBay advertising.
In other words, if it sold because it was seen on eBay, eBay is entitled to a cut. Period.
posted on May 30, 2001 02:09:27 PM
[b]Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to offer to sell any listed item outside of eBay{/b}
Sorry, I don't see in any stretch of the imagination how this applies in a case where a bidder is the one making the offer, as in the case outlined here.
It's not even a gray area as written.
The seller is not "using an eBay feature to offer to sell any listed item"-- merely accepting an offer made by a buyer.
The buyer is breaking a rule.
But there's no eBay rule that says a seller can't accept an offer on an item that was previously listed on eBay but failed to sell.
I'd be willing to take eBay to court over a suspension resulting from the situation outlined in this thread.
If the item sold directly as a result of eBay marketing and advertising, why wouldn't eBay be entitled to a cut?
Would the item have sold without it's exposure on eBay?
If the marketing and advertising venue called eBay, isn't allowed to profit from it's own marketing, exactly what profit is eBay "allowed" to have and who decides that?
posted on May 30, 2001 02:30:50 PM
>>does this mean anything I own cannot be sold, except through ebay?<<
ebay would like to to think that once an item is listed it is from that point on 'their' property, at least commission wise. To me, if the item is no longer listed I can do as I wish with it, including selling it to an interested party, regardless of how they contact me.
>>Interpret it however you feel comfortable. Or ignore it completely if you wish.<<
Sounds like the bible, does it not??
Problem is that it's ebays bible, and only their interpretation counts, and I don't think that would be in your favor.....
posted on May 30, 2001 03:08:36 PM
Tell him you can't do that its against Ebay policies but you will arrange with him at a certain time to put the item on with a buy it now feature for the price he wants but add the additional buy it now and listing fees to the price. He can then go immediately and buy it now and Ebay can't say anything. Just an idea I would try.
posted on May 30, 2001 04:22:38 PMIf the item sold directly as a result of eBay marketing and advertising, why wouldn't eBay be entitled to a cut?
For starters, eBay has no mechanism for paying FVF in a situation like this.
Second, it was an XX day listing. eBay had the opportunity to sell that item during the listing period. It did not sell and the seller did nothing underhanded to circumvent a sale during the listing period.
(And eBay did profit from the listing.
It received a listing fee.)
If eBay wants a longer-term right to sell items and charge fvf, it will have to provide longer-term listings.
This seller has no further obligation to eBay.
Again, the buyer did break an eBay rule.
But there's no written rule against accepting the offer.
posted on May 30, 2001 05:23:27 PM
>For starters, eBay has no mechanism for paying FVF in a situation like this.
Sure they do. It's called "relist and BIN". Why do you think they started it??? They already have half.com for fixed price.
>Second, it was an XX day listing. eBay had the opportunity to sell that item during the listing period. It did not sell and the seller did nothing underhanded to circumvent a sale during the listing period.
True. It was the buyer who was doing an end run around (or thru ) ebay. Doesn't change the fact the sale could NEVER happen if the item hadn't been on ebay. They will get around to not letting buyers "shop" the closed listings soon enough. I'll bet in the not too distant future, closed auctions will be viewable by the seller and high bidder only. I know there is a whole class of buyers (I get enough of these emails to know, some sent thru ebays mail system, some not) who DO "Shop" the closed listings trying to buy stuff. Often offering lowball prices which is another whole nother matter for another thread.
>If eBay wants a longer-term right to sell items and charge fvf, it will have to provide longer-term listings.
No, they are going to stop letting people shop closed listings. Look at the new verbage on the bottom of closed listings:
----
Bidding is closed for this item.
This page is available on eBay for a limited time only. Please print a copy for your own records.
----
That's fairly new They're sneaking this one in on us.
>This seller has no further obligation to eBay.
I agree, but eBay isn't obligated to keep closed listings for 90 days either. My guess is they will cut this to 30 - 60 days for deals that "fly", and kill ones that don't sell very quickly.
>Again, the buyer did break an eBay rule.
>But there's no written rule against accepting the offer.
I agree, and we hammered on support@ebay to get them to admit that we wouldn't be breaking any rules by taking offers like this. It was like pulling teeth, and the answers we got where weasel worded, but that's my understanding of it.
Oh, I ain't no ebay police, so I would never turn in a buyer for making an offer like this, but it seems silly for the offers to come thru ebays mail system, when my user id is my email, AND I have an email link...
edited to get rid of 5 inches of blank space in this post
[ edited by Microbes on May 30, 2001 05:25 PM ]
posted on May 30, 2001 06:01:21 PM
Sure, eBay is free to make any rule it wants and to cut users off from any function on the site it wants.
It can write language into its users agreement laying claim to the sale of your item for xx number of days after the listing ends if it so chooses.
But at this point in time, none of this exists. "Relist and BIN" is strictly voluntary and the seller is free to sell this item.
eBay instituted the set of rules quoted above in an attempt to halt losses due to bottom-feeding and sellers collecting names through auctions with ridiculously high reserves that could never be met (then turning around and selling the item after the listing ended to one of the unsuccessful bidders).
The fact that it scared some sellers into thinking any post-auction sale belonged to eBay was simply a bonus.
posted on May 30, 2001 10:49:09 PM
I've gotten quite a few of these...sometimes sold, sometimes not. Usually come out better telling them I'll relist, with a BIN which the possible buyer and I are both comfortable with. I let'um know the offer, if they are agreeable, I send them the auction number so they can find it quick. Had 2 people do that on the same book, which didn't get a bid first time out at very little. Relisted it a buck higher, neither jumped at the BIN but bid, a 3rd new party won at a considerable amount over start!
posted on May 30, 2001 11:06:11 PM
If you are listing from AW and put it in your storefront after the auction, according to ebay's rules you can't sell it. I wonder what AW says. Stupid rule of ebays, because if it doesn't sell there it goes directly to my mall space.
I think if ebay wants that rule then maybe they should buy our widgets outright and then we wouldn't have to worry about breaking any rules. Remember rules were made to be broken. Just like the rule you can't advertise your website in your description.
posted on May 31, 2001 05:21:06 AM
My take on this, and it won't be the last word on the subject, is eBay is a listing service. The contract runs for an auction period of X days. I have agreed to sell the widget on eBay during this time period. If the item does not sell, then I can do what ever I darn please with it, relist it, burn it, bury it, give it away, or Sell it to the 1st person who shows me the money! I have sold things to folks who contacted me after an auctions end and have bought things that way as well.
[ edited by Microbes on May 30, 2001 05:25 PM ]